Amazon HQ2

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

I don't think the suburbs are more diverse than urban areas.  In fact, even proponents or suburbs don't think that.  I know a lot of people (unfortunately) who live in suburbs because they aren't diverse.  Unless of course you simply mean the diversity of "suburbanites" themselves.  Even that isn't true though because by definition most of them travel to urban areas for work.  There are tons of suburbanites in my Uptown office.  So, I have to unequivocally disagree.

Just what kind of diversity are you talking about?  

On my street alone I have multiple family structures, races, and religions (that I know of) all living together.   Just doing a back of envelope count, on my street of 40 homes the % pretty much match up to Charlotte as a whole.   We have community events and as a neighborhood have an outstanding time together.  Kids play freely from homes as if there are no fences.  We are diverse and we are unified as a community.    The commonalities that unit are the pursuit of good schools, low crime and the ability to afford the house.  

I would bet my 401K that my 'suburban' neighborhood is more unified than many of the 'diverse' neighborhoods that people like to signal they live in.   Just because someone builds a $700k house were a low-income rental used to be and shares the street with a diverse income does not mean they live diversity or live in a unified neighborhood.   Statistical profiles of your address do not define how one interacts.  Neighborhoods like Cherry and Plaza-Midwood are much less unified, regardless of what signaling some want to do based on their address.  

[deleted]

3 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Just what kind of diversity are you talking about?  

On my street alone I have multiple family structures, races, and religions (that I know of) all living together.   Just doing a back of envelope count, on my street of 40 homes the % pretty much match up to Charlotte as a whole.   We have community events and as a neighborhood have an outstanding time together.  Kids play freely from homes as if there are no fences.  We are diverse and we are unified as a community.    The commonalities that unit are the pursuit of good schools, low crime and the ability to afford the house.  

I would bet my 401K that my 'suburban' neighborhood is more unified than many of the 'diverse' neighborhoods that people like to signal they live in.   Just because someone builds a $700k house were a low-income rental used to be and shares the street with a diverse income does not mean they live diversity or live in a unified neighborhood.   Statistical profiles of your address do not define how one interacts.  Neighborhoods like Cherry and Plaza-Midwood are much less unified, regardless of what signaling some want to do based on their address.  

Are we talking about diversity or unity?  Why are suburbs accused of racism when they want community schools (which I support, incidentally) if there isn't less diversity in suburbs?  I'm glad that anecdotally you live in a diverse suburb.  I live in Weddington (or should I say White-ington?).  I wish it was more diverse and I've considered moving (for other reasons also).  I'm sure diverse neighborhoods exist in the suburbs but clearly, on the whole, they are less diverse.

https://www.geolounge.com/racial-diversity-still-lacking-us-suburbs-per-study/

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/07/how-suburbs-gave-birth-americas-most-diverse-neighborhoods/2647/

Two sources, including one that generally supports your position (I'm responding in good faith).

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by JBS

[cjd5050]

30 minutes ago, JBS said:

Are we talking about diversity or unity?  Why are suburbs accused of racism when they want community schools (which I support, incidentally) if there isn't less diversity in suburbs?  I'm glad that anecdotally you live in a diverse suburb.  I live in Weddington (or should I say White-ington?).  I wish it was more diverse and I've considered moving (for other reasons also).  I'm sure diverse neighborhoods exist in the suburbs but clearly, on the whole, they are less diverse.

I am trying to talk about both.  I don't see the benefit and am not impressed if someone lives in a diverse area statistically but does not engage with the opposite end of the statistical spectrum.   Which is a reality once you look beyond the peacocking.

Maybe you can explain the benefits of a handful of white families living in 700k new builds on a street that is mostly poor and black and sending their kids to private almost exclusively white private schools?   Sure that street is diverse but is it any better?  

Weddington is more ethnically diverse than Myers Park by the way and it's not like Dilworth is a cornucopia of diversity, so if you do move I suggest looking outside of those areas I suppose.  

[kermit]

3 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Neighborhoods like Cherry and Plaza-Midwood are much less unified, regardless of what signaling some want to do based on their address.  

While this statement is true sometimes it is an obscene generalization. There is plenty of fractioning in the burbs, particularly where predominantly owner occupied SFH has begun to transition to rentals, just as there is plenty of 'unity' in portions of intown hoods. 

[cjd5050]

12 minutes ago, kermit said:

While this statement is true sometimes it is an obscene generalization. There is plenty of fractioning in the burbs, particularly where predominantly owner occupied SFH has begun to transition to rentals, just as there is plenty of 'unity' in portions of intown hoods. 

2

Obscene generalizations are par for the course here...

All I was pointing out is the silliness of in extolling the virtues of a statistically diverse neighborhood that's divided.

[deleted]

44 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I am trying to talk about both.  I don't see the benefit and am not impressed if someone lives in a diverse area statistically but does not engage with the opposite end of the statistical spectrum.   Which is a reality once you look beyond the peacocking.

Maybe you can explain the benefits of a handful of white families living in 700k new builds on a street that is mostly poor and black and sending their kids to private almost exclusively white private schools?   Sure that street is diverse but is it any better?  

Weddington is more ethnically diverse than Myers Park by the way and it's not like Dilworth is a cornucopia of diversity, so if you do move I suggest looking outside of those areas I suppose.  

Weddington:

As of the census^[2] of 2010, there were 9,459 people, 2,772 households, and 2,561 families residing in the town. The population density was 424.0 people per square mile (163.7/km²). There were 2,919 housing units at an average density of 140.2 per square mile (54.1/km²). The racial makeup of the town was 93.4% White, 2.9% African American, 4.48% Asian, 1.0% from other races, and 1.7% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 5.2% of the population.

Obviously, that isn't very diverse.  Myers Park and Dilworth are (obviously) two of the wealthiest Charlotte neighborhoods so limited diversity isn't unexpected.  However, I think that Dilworth (in particular) is pretty close to some pretty diverse areas.

I don't think people move to diverse neighborhoods primarily to "Peacock"...what would they even get out of that?  Regardless, my point was never that people should live in more or less diverse neighborhoods, it was that urban areas on the whole are more diverse than the suburbs (not better, more diverse). 

Diversity is just one reason I'd prefer to live closer to the city though (and since my wife says we're not moving, we're not moving). 

7 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

All I was pointing out is the silliness of in extolling the virtues of a statistically diverse neighborhood that's divided.

Who was doing that?

Edited July 5, 2018 by JBS

[KJHburg]

In actually Amazon news some question incentives given the new Amazon huge warehouse where construction has begun.    In my opinion all the city is doing paying for the road realignment that was going to be done eventually anyway.   https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article214354114.html

[Nick2]

I honestly think Raleigh has a huge amount to offer over other cities like what has already been mentioned. But the sheer volume of necessary workers could be problematic. Raleigh is rapidly growing and could be shaped for the future dramatically by 50k new well-paying jobs. Amazon might like that or it might not like that it will have to work harder to find enough people to employ locally.  It's not like people are against moving to Raleigh from out of state. They already are in droves. So who's to say they couldn't just come in even larger numbers to fill the need for more employees? 

[SydneyCarton]

Supposedly, Raleigh seeks to unload many of the government office buildings downtown, and these could be readily redeveloped to house Amazon.  Space in the RTP is available now.

If Raleigh gets Apple and Amazon, it will be the Boston of the South.  UNC is great, but Duke is truly amazing.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by SydneyCarton

[kickazzz2000]

https://www.bestcolleges.com/features/colleges-with-highest-research-and-development-expenditures/

 

i guess the line between great and amazing is $1B

40 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Supposedly, Raleigh seeks to unload many of the government office buildings downtown, and these could be readily redeveloped to house Amazon.  Space in the RTP is available now.

If Raleigh gets Apple and Amazon, it will be the Boston of the South.  UNC is great, but Duke is truly amazing.

 

 

 

[kermit]

53 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

UNC is great, but Duke is truly amazing.

as a Tar Heel alum I'll be as nice as possible and just say: FU

(this was not meant to be personal, its directed at the State University of New Jersey -- South)

[SydneyCarton]

Funny.    They’re both great schools and that makes the Triangle an intellectual powerhouse.   Before I moved to Chapel Hill, I didn’t appreciate the area’s intellectual and cultural prowess, but now, I’m really impressed with it.

[15895]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Funny.    They’re both great schools and that makes the Triangle an intellectual powerhouse.   Before I moved to Chapel Hill, I didn’t appreciate the area’s intellectual and cultural prowess, but now, I’m really impressed with it.

 

I just don’t see what you see. A mini Boston? No way, José. 

 

When I think of “cultured” places, I don’t think of Raleigh, North Carolina. Not really sure it’s anymore cultured than Austin or Charlotte or pretty much any other southern city. Houston? Dallas? Is Dallas a much bigger Boston??? 

 

Raleigh just doesn’t stick out to me as a cultured place (but at the same time it’s not a place I think is uncultured)

 

you dont even have to travel far north to Washington & NoVa to find a city that eclipses Raleigh in education & tech... I think even Baltimore is a larger tech hub. which has 3 areas for HQ2. I might be biased, but Washington seems to be the front runner by far. With Atlanta as my solid 2nd. 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD

[Crucial_Infra]

6 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I just don’t see what you see. A mini Boston? No way, José. 

 

When I think of “cultured” places, I don’t think of Raleigh, North Carolina. Not really sure it’s anymore cultured than Austin or Charlotte or pretty much any other southern city. Houston? Dallas? Is Dallas a much bigger Boston??? 

Cultured as Boston? Maybe not. As educated as Boston or anywhere else in America? Absolutely. 

[SydneyCarton]

Chapel Hill punches weigh above its weight for culture and intellectual atmosphere — not Raleigh.

[15895]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Chapel Hill punches weigh above its weight for culture and intellectual atmosphere — not Raleigh.

 

Don’t most college towns? 

Edited July 6, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD

[SydneyCarton]

I don’t think that Athens or Davidson, for example, remotely compare.

[elrodvt]

WRT the culture comment - Maybe not but plenty of others are far nicer in my (subjective) view. Take tiny BTV or Boulder.  Anyhow, I think the whole premise of getting both (or even 1) is unlikely. It would sure set up a nice situation for employees of sas etc.. though!

Edited July 6, 2018 by elrodvt

[KJHburg]

Durham Chapel Hill side of the metro area is #4 most educated metro in the state,  Raleigh Cary #15    

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-least-educated-cities/6656/

That is why both Amazon and Apple are considering the greater Raleigh Durham area but I do truly believe they will win one most likely Apple since they want a suburban campus like their others and the RTP is set up perfectly for that.  

 

[uptownliving]

3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Supposedly, Raleigh seeks to unload many of the government office buildings downtown, and these could be readily redeveloped to house Amazon.  Space in the RTP is available now.

If Raleigh gets Apple and Amazon, it will be the Boston of the South.  UNC is great, but Duke is truly amazing.

 

 

UNC and Duke are great schools with lots of successful graduates, however if Apple and/or Amazon setup shop in the Triangle they will be hiring mostly NC State grads. Go take a look at any of the tech companies in RTP today: IBM, Red Hat, SAS, Citrix, etc. and you will see mostly graduates of NC State.

[SydneyCarton]

Anyway, I hope that Amazon comes here.  Initially, I thought that Boston or DC was a shoe in, but that's not necessarily the case now.

Atlanta also has a very strong pitch due to Emory, Ga Tech, cost of living, etc., but the traffic is horrendous.

[kickazzz2000]

22 minutes ago, uptownliving said:

UNC and Duke are great schools with lots of successful graduates, however if Apple and/or Amazon setup shop in the Triangle they will be hiring mostly NC State grads. Go take a look at any of the tech companies in RTP today: IBM, Red Hat, SAS, Citrix, etc. and you will see mostly graduates of NC State.

And thats why Raleigh probably doesn't get Amazon 

 

 

i keeed i keeeeed  #ncstatelol

[cjd5050]

3 hours ago, JBS said:

Obviously, that isn't very diverse.  Myers Park and Dilworth are (obviously) two of the wealthiest Charlotte neighborhoods so limited diversity isn't unexpected.  However, I think that Dilworth (in particular) is pretty close to some pretty diverse areas.

 

That's the point.  Myers Park and Dilworth are considered by many to be 'urban' hoods and not 'suburban' when in reality they are not urban at all and just as bleached as the best suburbs out there.   Yet there still is this idea that they are somehow different or less offensive than Weddington or Ballantyne.    Classifying neighborhoods as good or bad based on how close to some random point is stupid.  I am not saying you're suggesting this but that is the general tone here at times.  

I think if you're a proponent of urbanism and want the benefits of it, you look to implement it everywhere.  

 

 

 

[BullDurhamer]

23 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

If Millenials are making long-term housing and financial decisions based on 'Trumpism' as you put it (moronic phrase by the way) then they are stupid and don't deserve to own a home.  Although I am sure they will try to create some sort of program that provides it to them...   

Urban living is not a location.  Urban living is a lifestyle.   Urban living can exist anywhere as long as the components are provided for.  Items such as walkability, mixed-use development, land use for residential are what defines urban living.   Urban living is about ones personal footprint based on their personal factors such as where they work, live and play.  Suggesting that center city is the only place where urban living can exist is about as stupid as deciding where to purchase a house based on who occupies the White House.   

But I am pretty sure this is lost on you.

 what's clearly lost on you is that 55% of the country despises trump and every bit of the racism and sexism that comes with it.  a rush to the urban core where progressive values rule is absolutely happening in response to trumpism.  you can whine and say i'm foolish, but that doesn't change the fact.

 

secondly, i told you new city centers are emerging in what's called "surban" living.   so please tell me why you blatantly lied about my post?  trumpism is also about misrepresenting facts.  well done!

18 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Obscene generalizations are par for the course here...

All I was pointing out is the silliness of in extolling the virtues of a statistically diverse neighborhood that's divided.

this is the most ignorant thing i've ever read here.

btw, here's my neighborhood.  

https://kdvr.com/2018/05/31/dozens-attend-rally-to-support-coffee-shop-vandalized-with-hateful-message/

because black and white people look different doesnt' make them "divided".

remember, this is urbanplanet.com

Edited July 6, 2018 by BullDurhamer

[Durhamite]

1 hour ago, cjd5050 said:

That's the point.  Myers Park and Dilworth are considered by many to be 'urban' hoods and not 'suburban' when in reality they are not urban at all and just as bleached as the best suburbs out there.   Yet there still is this idea that they are somehow different or less offensive than Weddington or Ballantyne.    Classifying neighborhoods as good or bad based on how close to some random point is stupid.  I am not saying you're suggesting this but that is the general tone here at times.  

I think if you're a proponent of urbanism and want the benefits of it, you look to implement it everywhere.  

 

 

 

I think you're missing the point.  Most cities, even dense urban cities like NYC are segregated on certain levels whether that be ethnicity, income, race, etc.  Still, there's a certain level of interaction and  co-mingling (parks, transportation, restaurants, etc)  in urbanized city proper areas versus many isolated and bleached suburbs.  We all know urban Charlotte (or urban Sunbelt cities)  aren't urban DC or Philly, but they serve that purpose.  This would be the selling point for Amazon or millennials seeking more interaction/activity/access to people/things and typically a by-product of these areas is proximity to more diverse environments.   This is an urban enthusiast forum so quite naturally it's going bias towards that tone.  I don't think anyone is maligning living in the burbs.  

Edited July 6, 2018 by Durhamite