Amazon HQ2

[CLT>___]

2 minutes ago, stiluvclt said:

I realize that every business publication has their favorite choice for HQ2 but I am damned if I can find any source outside of Charlotte that gives us a rat's chance of landing this gem. If anything at all holds us back it would be the lack of mass transportation. Not everyone wants to live along the BLE.

Who cares lol we are just having fun talking about what ifs. 

[Dale]

Lack of mass transportation, my rear end. Only a handful of cities are bristling with train lines. And those that are are more choked by congestion than we are.

[southslider]

^The greater dilemma for HQ2 isn't that more robust transit is in more congested cities, but that larger talent pools are in higher-cost cities.  But in this age of social-media relations, the greatest dilemma may be that lower-cost cities are in socially controversial states.   Whatever Amazon values most- cost of living, depth of talent pool, or PR politics, you can bet that transit and congestion will be acceptable trade-offs.

[KJHburg]

According to the Irish betting site PaddyPower HQ2 is going to either Austin or Atlanta

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2018/01/02/austin-atlanta-now-share-3-in-1-odds-of-landing.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-01-06&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1515248092&j=79456851

[CLT>___]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

According to the Irish betting site PaddyPower HQ2 is going to either Austin or Atlanta

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2018/01/02/austin-atlanta-now-share-3-in-1-odds-of-landing.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-01-06&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1515248092&j=79456851

I would be shocked if it went to a city that is not on the east coast.... and Austin's airport is pretty small.

I have said Atlanta is the clear favorite on paper but... It is Atlanta, maybe I am the only one who feels this way but the city always seems pretty dead.

[kermit]

46 minutes ago, JSquare said:

I have said Atlanta is the clear favorite on paper but... It is Atlanta, maybe I am the only one who feels this way but the city always seems pretty dead.

not just you, downtown Atlanta sucks. Like Charlotte, Atlanta a city of groovy neighborhoods (Highlands, Little 5, East Atl, Decatur, Midtown, the Clairmont District....) but they are a much bigger PITA to travel between there.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by kermit

[Cadi40]

I agree. At some points Charlotte seems much more lively then Downtown Atlanta. The only place at least I can find many people downtown is the centennial park or the coke factory/aquarium, and those are mostly tourists.

[Dale]

If Amazon picks Atlanta -- and builds in the Gulch area -- then along with everything else planned for the CBD and surrounds, downtown Atlanta will be a radically different place in a few years.

[Cadi40]

10 hours ago, Dale said:

If Amazon picks Atlanta -- and builds in the Gulch area -- then along with everything else planned for the CBD and surrounds, downtown Atlanta will be a radically different place in a few years.

Don’t care at this point. I used to cringe at the thought of Atlanta getting it, But it could be a miracle for Charlotte and other nearby metros. If Atlanta were to get Amazon does anyone think that might mean Charlotte would get more business growth due to the fact that business now know that it’s safe to come back to charlotte? Also I think if Atlanta did get receive Amazon then it would rest the “Charlotte is going to be the next Atlanta” due to the pure fact that they already have many projects slated. 

[Dale]

9 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Don’t care at this point. I used to cringe at the thought of Atlanta getting it, But it could be a miracle for Charlotte and other nearby metros. If Atlanta were to get Amazon does anyone think that might mean Charlotte would get more business growth due to the fact that business now know that it’s safe to come back to charlotte? Also I think if Atlanta did get receive Amazon then it would rest the “Charlotte is going to be the next Atlanta” due to the pure fact that they already have many projects slated. 

And the talk is that other notable firms might be hovering, waiting, wanting to land in a city that isn't sucked dry of incentives because Amazon.

[KJHburg]

^^^ Econ development people said in Dallas many companies are putting their decisions off until Amazon HQ2 makes it decision or short list because they do NOT want to go to the HQ2 city. As I have said repeatedly I can take or leave the HQ2 we are one of the fastest growing cities in America now I am  not sure we can handle that speeding up greatly.    They should release their short list and the rest of us can move on with our lives.   And if it is Atlanta believe me it will benefit Charlotte and many companies will X the Big A off their list and look for another southern low cost option like a Charlotte. 

[Cadi40]

I have said this many times, But by 2040 Charlotte is predicted to be THE Fastest growing city in the U.S. so I think we should be fine with or without it. Also does anyone know when Charlotte's metro will exceed 3 Million? 

[kermit]

^ This is an honest (e.g. not intended to make trouble) question:

Portland is roughly the same distance from Seattle as Atlanta is from Charlotte. Once you get out of Seattle I would argue that I-5 is less congested than I-85 (I might be wrong), there are better rail connections between PDX and SEA (5 per day connections which are faster than driving, recent accident aside) and equal air connections (another guess).  Given all this, how much does Portland benefit from Amazon's current Seattle headquarters? My limited observation suggests that there is not much evidence of Amazon creating growth in PDX, but I don't have much local knowledge. 

11 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

I have said this many times, But by 2040 Charlotte is predicted to be THE Fastest growing city in the U.S....

What would you say if I told you that Detroit was projected to be "THE Fastest growing city in the US" between 1950 and 1970?

As someone who makes those projections as part of my job I hate to tell you that projections beyond 5 years are little more than Chamber of Commerce bluster.

Edited January 7, 2018 by kermit

[Dale]

10 minutes ago, kermit said:

^ This is an honest (e.g. not intended to make trouble) question:

Portland is roughly the same distance from Seattle as Atlanta is from Charlotte. Once you get out of Seattle I would argue that I-5 is less congested than I-85 (I might be wrong), there are better rail connections between PDX and SEA (5 per day connections which are faster than driving, recent accident aside) and equal air connections (another guess).  Given all this, how much does Portland benefit from Amazon's current Seattle headquarters? My limited observation suggests that there is not much evidence of Amazon creating growth in PDX, but I don't have much local knowledge. 

What would you say if I told you that Detroit was projected to be "THE Fastest growing city in the US" between 1950 and 1970?

As someone who makes those projections as part of my job I hate to tell you that projections beyond 5 years are little more than Chamber of Commerce bluster.

Detroit was doing well back then. Presumably, local politics gutted the city.

[kermit]

39 minutes ago, Dale said:

Detroit was doing well back then. Presumably, local politics gutted the city.

Or global competition or lack of reinvestment by local corps or reduced purchases by the US military or ...... 

I wasn't trying to draw a  parallel between CLT and Detroit, just making the point that big changes are hard to predict .

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by kermit

[KJHburg]

^^^Charlotte and Atlanta are regional rivals for office and HQ relocations.  What I mean if ATL gets the HQ2 many companies will strike Atlanta off their list and many may come to Charlotte as  a place with great air connections, low cost of business, southeast location etc.    We have many of the same strengths as Atlanta without some of their problems.   This would also apply to Nashville  or Raleigh Durham if they were chosen too (not likely)   

[Dale]

21 minutes ago, kermit said:

Or global competition or lack of reinvestment by local corps or reduced purchases by the US military or ...... 

I wasn't trying to draw a  parallel between CLT and Detroit, just making the point that bug changes are hard to predict .

 

I grant the larger point, but it was identity politics, unfunded obligations, tax-and-spend liberalism and anti-business policy that gutted Detroit.

[15895]

8 minutes ago, Dale said:

I grant the larger point, but it was identity politics, unfunded obligations, tax-and-spend liberalism and anti-business policy that gutted Detroit.

I don’t like getting the whole national level dick measuring “republican vs. Democrat” rhetoric in local affairs.  The national level of politics is nothing but a pissing contest of identity politics between bible thumpers & those who don’t want to label a pee pee male or female genitalia. 

 

Also, for all the talk of how it would be a good thing to not get HQ2 because t would suck other job opportunities. I think that narrative is a way to protect yourselves from the likely disappointment of not getting HQ2. It would be good for CLT to get Amazon, period.

Edited January 7, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD

[elrodvt]

29 minutes ago, Dale said:

Detroit was doing well back then. Presumably, local politics gutted the city.

I know it's your mantra but government isn't responsible for every problem - just as it's not the solution to every problem. 

I think this is a pretty every handed discussion (I know wiki but really....). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

I found the car culture negatives interesting.

 

2 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I don’t like getting the whole national level dick measuring “republican vs. Democrat” rhetoric in local affairs.  The national level of politics is nothing but a pissing contest of identity politics between bible thumpers & those who don’t want to label a pee pee male or female genitalia. 

 

Also, for all the talk of how it would be a good thing to not get HQ2 because t would suck other job opportunities. I think that narrative is a way to protect yourselves from the likely disappointment of not getting HQ2. It would be good for CLT to get Amazon, period.

Yeah, you're right, the supposed negatives of Amazon only came to light as posters realized CLT wasn't a strong candidate. Many posters here have huge chips on their shoulders.

The pee pee comment though,..... God.

[kermit]

21 minutes ago, Dale said:

I grant the larger point, but it was identity politics, unfunded obligations, tax-and-spend liberalism and anti-business policy that gutted Detroit.

There was no single cause of Detroit's decline, but the city's example certainly serves as a handy Rorschach test for urbanists. From my perspective, there was a large array of factors stacked against Detroit and they (in combination) created a negative feedback loop.

Its seems a bit reductionist to assume that local politics could trump a massive global economic transformation, a total change in military technology and some of the worst corporate management decisions in modern US history. Not saying that the 67 riots didn't play a role, but (IMO) Detroit's die was cast long before that.

Edited January 7, 2018 by kermit

[DMann]

Don't forget, the Motor City was built for the auto, and we have been entering an age of walkability

[nakers2]

Just my two cents, I agree a lot of the reassuring people are doing in regards to businesses still coming to Charlotte on the chance (likelihood) that HQ2 isn't coming here is a result of pride in the city, but is that such a bad thing? One thing I believe Charlotte has been missing over the years is a sense of pride, people willing to defend the city's honor.  

[elrodvt]

^It's not just HQ2 but any criticism and what that does is prevent reasonable discussions about how to win next. Defending a  city's honor I don't quite get but ok.

[KJHburg]

Maybe NOT  being on this list will sway Amazon HQ2 our way.   Several highly mentioned cities for the HQ2 are on this list.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-08/good-morning-baltimore-orkin-says-your-city-is-a-bed-bug-mecca

[cjd5050]

On 1/7/2018 at 5:49 PM, KJHburg said:

^^^Charlotte and Atlanta are regional rivals for office and HQ relocations.  What I mean if ATL gets the HQ2 many companies will strike Atlanta off their list and many may come to Charlotte as  a place with great air connections, low cost of business, southeast location etc.    We have many of the same strengths as Atlanta without some of their problems.   This would also apply to Nashville  or Raleigh Durham if they were chosen too (not likely)   

I get what you're saying here and I really hope it's true.   

But a point that's not really being considered here is the possibility of Atlanta pulling this off.   I see the view of some HQs looking elsewhere because Amazon eats too much of the pie but there is also the possibility that Atlanta just launches into a different solar system.  Consider now that Charlotte is considered a Gamma+ and Atlanta is a Alpha- with the likes of Boston, Miami, and San Francisco.   But if they land Amazon it's only a matter of time before they evolve to a Alpha.  Joining the ranks of Chicago and LA.   

What's to say that Atlanta does not evolve to be the undisputed capitol of the South and have Charlotte and Nashville in its orbit.  Just like Boston and Philly to NYC and San Diego and San Fran to LA.   I still think this is good for Charlotte as it would allow us to continue to grow.  Just saying we would need to concede being a regional rival and instead cozy up to the teet of Atl.