Twelve Weston (Formerly known as 35 and 41 S Division)

[jas49503]

Wow, asking for Ted to be fired? I'd qualify that as stepping over the line. We all like to throw around jabs and snarky insults on this site, but actually slandering a licensed professional in the community to encourage them to be fired opens you up x99 for legal action. You won't be able to hide behind UrbanPlanet on that one.

 

I've already had 3 or 4 people ask me who you are. I'm sure the site owners could figure it out.

 

So why don't you take a break from this thread for a while. If you want to protest the drawings, you should do so at the next HPC meeting.

I think that x99's comments hardly constitute slander although calling for Lott to be fired seems somewhat over the line.  I do agree that with him that the Ft. Worth designs are very good and something that we could use here.  at the same time, I don't think that the current design is that bad at it's core.  maybe some modifications to break up large expanses of brick and an acknowledgment of the pedestrian traffic that passes by the location would be a welcome addition.  The proposed style is not really represented in the city now which is why I think that it would be a nice addition.  IMO, one of the things that an architect should strive for is diversification of the styles represented in a city.  a bunch of glass towers ends up being quite boring in the end, if that is all that is present. because of the cost of redevelopment, you end up with something that nobody likes for a very long time.  

[GRDadof3]

I think that x99's comments hardly constitute slander although calling for Lott to be fired seems somewhat over the line.  I do agree that with him that the Ft. Worth designs are very good and something that we could use here.  at the same time, I don't think that the current design is that bad at it's core.  maybe some modifications to break up large expanses of brick and an acknowledgment of the pedestrian traffic that passes by the location would be a welcome addition.  The proposed style is not really represented in the city now which is why I think that it would be a nice addition.  IMO, one of the things that an architect should strive for is diversification of the styles represented in a city.  a bunch of glass towers ends up being quite boring in the end, if that is all that is present. because of the cost of redevelopment, you end up with something that nobody likes for a very long time.  

 

Let me put it this way: if someone said something about me online that was merely "subjective" about the job I was doing and called for my dismissal, and I lost work because of it, there would be consequences.

 

Attack designs, attack policies, attack decisions made, but please don't use this forum to attack other people (members here or otherwise). Unless they're a public figure and/or elected official, then you're allowed (in moderation).

 

Carry on.

[x99]

Let me put it this way: if someone said something about me online that was merely "subjective" about the job I was doing and called for my dismissal, and I lost work because of it, there would be consequences.

 

Architectural design is a form of art.  It isn't as if I said this is a firm that designs bridges or buildings that are badly engineered and will kill people.  I said I think this building is not very attractive or compatible with the Heartside Historic District and that Rockford might want to think about replacing their architect with someone that has more traditional design expertise.  What they think about that idea is up to them.  I also don't think you need traditional architecture everywhere.  Only in districts that are prserved because of their existing historic architecture.  In CBD, I think someone of Lott's designs would look great.  They would certainly be an improvement on just about anything in the "Renewal" district.  Hiring his firm to do work there makes perfect sense.

 

Jas says this sort of design is "not really represented in the city now".  Well, okay.  But historic designations are supposed to be more than just "anti-demolition" ordinances. Infill and additions in a historic district are supposed to be "compatible" with the existing architecture.  How can you be compatible when you basically disregard existing precedent (which happens to be traditional architecture).  I simply want to see this project carried out by an architect who respects traditional architecture and can use the form well.  It Lott can do that, fine.  Their portfolio on their website just doesn't give the impression they can or would do a traditional architecture project.  To be fair, if City Hall and the County Building were designated as a "historic district" I wouldn't be in favor of putting up any of the designs I posted above in that district.  Fair is fair.  Traditional architecture, however, gets no such courtesy most of the time.

Edited February 9, 2015 by x99

[wingbert]

Wow, asking for Ted to be fired? I'd qualify that as stepping over the line. We all like to throw around jabs and snarky insults on this site, but actually slandering a licensed professional in the community to encourage them to be fired opens you up x99 for legal action. You won't be able to hide behind UrbanPlanet on that one.

 

I've already had 3 or 4 people ask me who you are. I'm sure the site owners could figure it out.

 

So why don't you take a break from this thread for a while. If you want to protest the drawings, you should do so at the next HPC meeting.

 

 

I am still awaiting the response to Downtown Joe's request to see x99's napkin sketch that is better than the current design.  I am ready to heap praise on it if it proves deserving of such commentary.  In the immortal words of Austin Millbarge, "We mock what we don't understand."  

[GRDadof3]

Architectural design is a form of art.  It isn't as if I said this is a firm that designs bridges or buildings that are badly engineered and will kill people.  I said I think this building is not very attractive or compatible with the Heartside Historic District and that Rockford might want to think about replacing their architect with someone that has more traditional design expertise.  What they think about that idea is up to them.  I also don't think you need traditional architecture everywhere.  Only in districts that are prserved because of their existing historic architecture.  In CBD, I think someone of Lott's designs would look great.  They would certainly be an improvement on just about anything in the "Renewal" district.  Hiring his firm to do work there makes perfect sense.

 

Jas says this sort of design is "not really represented in the city now".  Well, okay.  But historic designations are supposed to be more than just "anti-demolition" ordinances. Infill and additions in a historic district are supposed to be "compatible" with the existing architecture.  How can you be compatible when you basically disregard existing precedent (which happens to be traditional architecture).  I simply want to see this project carried out by an architect who respects traditional architecture and can use the form well.  It Lott can do that, fine.  Their portfolio on their website just doesn't give the impression they can or would do a traditional architecture project.  To be fair, if City Hall and the County Building were designated as a "historic district" I wouldn't be in favor of putting up any of the designs I posted above in that district.  Fair is fair.  Traditional architecture, however, gets no such courtesy most of the time.

 

 

Just admit when you're wrong, apologize and move on. Jesus H man. Maybe the client doesn't want traditional.

[joeDowntown]

If the two buildings had been demolished to make way for new development, I would fight it tooth and nail. But the buildings needed to come down and now developers are left with an opportunity.

I don't think much can be said for this not fitting into the area. Look at Vern Berry Place. Or the new red buildings from Karl Chew. If those buildings are allowed to exist in the historic district I personally can't see an argument against this new building.

Joe

[x99]

I don't think much can be said for this not fitting into the area. Look at Vern Berry Place. Or the new red buildings from Karl Chew. If those buildings are allowed to exist in the historic district I personally can't see an argument against this new building.

 

Just admit when you're wrong, apologize and move on. Jesus H man. Maybe the client doesn't want traditional.

 

What has been happening in Heartside does suggest I am wrong.  I'll admit that.  Verne Barry Place, 38 Commerce, Karl's Chew's architectural wonders--they are all shining examples.  However, that absolutely anything is regarded as "compatible" with the traditional architectural style the district was preserved for strongly suggests that Heartside's designation is absolutely worthless and means nothing.  A decade of neglect, conversion to a parking lot/hole, and then your shiny new glass castle in whatever flavor you want is yours.

Edited February 10, 2015 by x99

[mpchicago]

At today's DDA meeting, SIBSCO received grant dollars to fill in areaways, and for streetscape improvements.  The article shows what appears to be a revised window treatment for the lower floors. The DDA packet has more renderings at street level.

 

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2015/03/downtown_development_authority_33.html#incart_river

 

Ted, are you allowed to talk about the project yet, or specifically about the changes to the design?

[GRDadof3]

More color renderings.

 

 

 

 

 

[Allison Slater]

These more detailed renderings reveal a much nicer looking building than the previous renderings did.  I see depth to the brick -- it's not just a solid flat wall as originally appeared.  The elevator shaft still feels a bit awkward but overall if this is what we get I'll be pleased with it.  Maybe the shaft will make for a good mural.  (-Good- mural, not wild horses.)

[joeDowntown]

Wait, so we put the pitchforks and torches away and don't chase after the architect? LOL.

One part of the article I found confusing. They say the project would house 100 workers. That seems pretty low doesn't it? 12 people per floor (of office space). Or is this 100 workers during the construction phase?

Know this will be controversial but I sure hope it cleans this corner up. I park in the lot next to Rockwells and the amount of drunken loitering is pretty crazy at times. Not as bad as the parking ramp at Gallery where people like to poop in the elevator, but close.

[GRDadof3]

Wait, so we put the pitchforks and torches away and don't chase after the architect? LOL.

One part of the article I found confusing. They say the project would house 100 workers. That seems pretty low doesn't it? 12 people per floor (of office space). Or is this 100 workers during the construction phase?

Know this will be controversial but I sure hope it cleans this corner up. I park in the lot next to Rockwells and the amount of drunken loitering is pretty crazy at times. Not as bad as the parking ramp at Gallery where people like to poop in the elevator, but close.

Joe

 

Yeah, I think the reporter got it wrong. It will probably employ 100 people during construction. I'd guess 375 to 500 workers in the building when complete and leased up.

[Ted]

Ted, are you allowed to talk about the project yet, or specifically about the changes to the design?

 

Nope. Still in our public process. Lots of work to be done.

[arcturus]

Ugly but it's tall!  j/k

[GRDadof3]

More color renderings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's strange, the pictures aren't showing up for me. Anyone else?

[wingbert]

More color renderings.

 

 

I will say this, when it comes to architectural detail and personality the new design is certainly...   taller?

 

[Allison Slater]

Wait, so we put the pitchforks and torches away and don't chase after the architect? LOL.

I wasn't the one calling for people to get fired.  I had criticisms but nothing more.  And these more detailed renderings addressed some of those.

[joeDowntown]

Tomato, tomato. I showed the rendering to a coworker today and he said 'awesome! this is why I stay in Grand Rapids'. Maybe we're a bit jaded?

I wish all old buildings could be saved and restored but honestly, I look at the pre-demolition pictures and think it looks more like two buildings well past their useful life (premature due to eroding foundations but still past...).

I would love to see someone slip a silhouette of someone passed out on the sidewalk or peeing in the stoop into the renderings. LOL.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

I would love to see someone slip a silhouette of someone passed out on the sidewalk or peeing in the stoop into the renderings. LOL.

Joe

 

Now that sounds jaded Joe! There should at least be an ambulance rendered in, since it's pretty much omnipresent on that block.

[GR_Urbanist]

If I was to change anything, it would be at a minimum, to do something with akward corner. It is a big chunk of blank that exists for no reason.

 

I still dont understand the deal with the tiny windows on the lower floors, and the big and blank elevator shaft. If you are going to have that, then at least make it one of those that you can see out the other side. It is just a huge, brick thing hanging off the side of a glass tower.

[GRDadof3]

If I was to change anything, it would be at a minimum, to do something with akward corner. It is a big chunk of blank that exists for no reason.

 

I still dont understand the deal with the tiny windows on the lower floors, and the big and blank elevator shaft. If you are going to have that, then at least make it one of those that you can see out the other side. It is just a huge, brick thing hanging off the side of a glass tower.

 

Those lower floors are parking ramp floors. Maybe so you don't see the cars as much from the street?

[SupercityGR]

Im not on this forum much, is this actually happening?

[GR_Urbanist]

Those lower floors are parking ramp floors. Maybe so you don't see the cars as much from the street?

 

Oooooooh, I see. I thought those were offices.

[GVSUChris]

So it sounds like this project is being voted on tonight by the HPC.

I hope it makes it through.

[GVSUChris]

Looks like it passed.

Also looks like a bit of a shuffle of offices downtown?

http://mibiz.com/item/22483-12-weston-office-tower-moves-ahead-after-city-approval-adtegrity-to-be-lead-tenant