Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[JayGee]

The CLT airport will soon be getting a $300 million makeover. It's expected to occur over the next 5 years. Changes in include expanded terminal (thank god), underground pedestrian tunnel, automated system for luggage and the two new parking decks that currently reside where the hourly decks are now. Hopefully the replacement of our old monitors for arrival/departure info will happen too... $95 million from a Transportation Agency grant will pay for the inline baggage screening system. The remaining cost will be paid through a $3 passenger surcharge. No word on the International Terminal yet...

$300 makeover for CLT airport

The monitor replacement was supposedly funded last year and was supposed to happen last year. Those old monitors are embarrassing.

[Miesian Corners]

The new cover story on CLT in Airports Magazine (a UK publication) makes note of the dismal state of the arrivals (baggage) level at CLT as well as the crowded ticketing/security area. Maybe bad international press has made Jerry slightly more apt to move forward with renovations now.

[JayGee]

The new cover story on CLT in Airports Magazine (a UK publication) makes note of the dismal state of the arrivals (baggage) level at CLT as well as the crowded ticketing/security area. Maybe bad international press has made Jerry slightly more apt to move forward with renovations now.

Note that the baggage handling upgrade is only to the departing flights! Did they cover the long wait times when arriving? Haven't seen the article yet.

[JayGee]

Looks like Jerry's looking for a new tower. And they're looking at location for a 4th parallel runway. I have a feeling it is not going to the west of the new one.

What do they designate the two middle runways? 18/36 ML or MR or something?

Article Here

[HopHead]

Looks like Jerry's looking for a new tower. And they're looking at location for a 4th parallel runway. I have a feeling it is not going to the west of the new one.

What do they designate the two middle runways? 18/36 ML or MR or something?

Article Here

That's interesting about the new tower and it does make sense. Every time I fly out of CLT and go by that new runway I think of how far away it is and there's a bit of a hill that separates it from the current runways.

[InitialD]

Looks like Jerry's looking for a new tower. And they're looking at location for a 4th parallel runway. I have a feeling it is not going to the west of the new one.

What do they designate the two middle runways? 18/36 ML or MR or something?

Article Here

It could be west of I-485. After all, look what ATL did - they put the runway OVER the interstate: http://is.gd/14Juk

[JayGee]

It could be west of I-485. After all, look what ATL did - they put the runway OVER the interstate: http://is.gd/14Juk

Well. . . it crossed the bypass. I guess the could go on the other side of 485. Then they'd really need a new tower! It would be cool having a taxiway bridge over 485.

[atlrvr]

The middle runway will be 36C. DId the article mention it as another parallel runway, or could it be another crosswinds? I can't think of any airport that has 4 parallels that can be simultaneously used.

[JayGee]

The middle runway will be 36C. DId the article mention it as another parallel runway, or could it be another crosswinds? I can't think of any airport that has 4 parallels that can be simultaneously used.

They said fourth parallel, but who knows, CBJ could have gotten it wrong.

Even as the third parallel runway remains under construction, Christine noted the airport has already considered where it would locate a fourth when it becomes necessary.

[monsoon]

^4th {sodEmoji.|}{sodEmoji.|} runway? Someone at the CBJ is having wetdreams again. My guess is this 3rd runway is going to sit there mostly unused. The big 6 airlines are heading into meltdown mode again and aside from making more cutbacks in service, they are not going to waste the fuel to taxi out to this runway. This construction was a huge waste of resources given the cost vs the benefit. (I don't doubt they will send some token planes down it, but then it will be quietly forgotten like most of these boondoggles.)

[JayGee]

^4th {sodEmoji.|}{sodEmoji.|} runway? Someone at the CBJ is having wetdreams again. My guess is this 3rd runway is going to sit there mostly unused. The big 6 airlines are heading into meltdown mode again and aside from making more cutbacks in service, they are not going to waste the fuel to taxi out to this runway. This construction was a huge waste of resources given the cost vs the benefit. (I don't doubt they will send some token planes down it, but then it will be quietly forgotten like most of these boondoggles.)

It was certainly conceived in a different time. . .

It won't go unused, especially in bad weather (I know, which CLT has so much of), it will permit simultaneous ops when there is greater aircraft separation, which is why the spacing is what it is.

But it certainly will be a long time before there is sufficient use to justify the reason for building it.

It's true, though, that it has been criticized for the additional fuel usage.

[monsoon]

Yes this is the theory, but it assumes USAir wants to increase plane frequency. It's my guess if the fuel is burning them, then they won't do it as they have shown absolutely no regard for the customer when it comes to squeezing another dime out of a flight. They don't mind making people wait in airports if it saves them money. Unless there are financial benefits, they won't use it.

They are in a world of hurt again. Fuel is going back up, corporate America has essentially stopped flying its employees, and tourists are pissed off at the surly treatment from the airlines and avoiding the planes as much as possible.

[HopHead]

LOL... Aside from Jetblue and Airtran, what airline actually cares about their customers? USAirways is certainly not alone in this category. Continental just proved that yesterday when they 'lost' some kids.

[monsoon]

It's been my observation that an industry whose business plan includes pissing off their customers as a plan to make money, is an industry that is going to be hit with painful change. Even one that is an oligopoly like the airline industry.

[InitialD]

One of the main benefits will be more slots during peak operations, which is attractive to the airlines. It is busy during peak times: I've now seen 4 go-arounds at the airport overlook, because a plane was on approach while another plane is attempting to take off. Often there will be up to 8 planes waiting to take off on 18R. I don't think it will take that much fuel to taxi to the 3rd runway (planes often taxi with just one engine) and the added time will be maybe 5 minutes or less, or a good chance it could be quicker that being number 8 for departure.

Edited June 18, 2009 by InitialD

[JayGee]

It's been my observation that an industry whose business plan includes pissing off their customers as a plan to make money, is an industry that is going to be hit with painful change. Even one that is an oligopoly like the airline industry.

You've got it wrong. Their business plan is not to piss off their customers, they just do that naturally.

Their business plan is to charge their best customers the most money. We can see how well that's worked for them.

[Ryepow]

A pilot can make a request to use a certain runway, and if it's not busy they will try to accommodate their needs. Otherwise, it's up to the ATC to decide which runway they want the aircraft to use. I've heard pilots requests denied many times and sent to the other side of the airport from their location.

A taller tower would money well spent due to the location of the new runway. A fourth parallel runway would be over kill for the forceable future. If they build a couple more terminals and second airline creates a hub here as Delta and Airtran have in ATL, then yes it would warrant a 4th parallel runway. I wouldn't go to all the expense for one airline that is always on the brink of bankruptcy.

It's to bad that land in between 18C and the new 18R was not already accounted for. If a new runway beyond 485 was built far off in the future, I could imagine a mega airport facility with two parallel runways on each side of it, much like ATL today.

[Miesian Corners]

The parallel runway will save time and money for all involved. Currently, airplanes cannot use 36R or 18L for take offs and landings during Sunday mornings and at night due to noise abatement. Furthermore, the same runway actually crosses 23/5 making simultaneous take offs and landings impossible there.

As for pricing, please let's not go down this road again. We have the best and least expensive air transportation system in the world--period. Could it be better? Can't everything? Could it be cheaper, I don

[rockhilljames]

I'd rather they widen the concourses, build another (shorter) terminal, and FIX THE BAGGAGE CLAIM AREA AND MONITORS...before adding another runway.

...and for dear lord's sake, staff more security points.

Thank you.

[uptownliving]

Cue Drum Rolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

On the Agenda for City Council approval on Monday is a contract to replace the CRT Flight Info monitors with 40" LCD screens. Praise Jesus...never thought I would live to see this day.

[uptownliving]

The parallel runway will save time and money for all involved. Currently, airplanes cannot use 36R or 18L for take offs and landings during Sunday mornings and at night due to noise abatement. Furthermore, the same runway actually crosses 23/5 making simultaneous take offs and landings impossible there.

I forget the exact amount...but before the new runway construction started they estimated it would save the airlines about $40M per year in fuel costs. So doing the math this runway will "pay" for itself after about 2 years of service.

[monsoon]

..... According to Paul Krugman, an Economist at Princeton University, the average price of an airline ticket in 1975 was around $500. Adjusted for inflation, it would be over $2,000 today. What is the average ticket price in the U.S. today? It's about $200. We're getting a bargain.

No doubt. The airlines in 1975 were not losing money and they gave excellent on time service in comparison to today. We are not talking about the same product being offered. The ticket price in 1975 included everything and it was just like money. You could trade it back in for no penality or use it to fly on a different airline. That $200 ticket today has so many additional fees and restrictions on it you end up paying far far far more, all so you can get into a seat that adults can't fit in.. Yet with all of that, they are still operating in an unsustainable situation.

If the reason for this runway isn't having to do with real need, but rather to improve the bottom line of airline, an unsustainable industry, then it's still a waste of government money.

[JayGee]

As for pricing, please let's not go down this road again. We have the best and least expensive air transportation system in the world--period. Could it be better? Can't everything? Could it be cheaper, I don't see how. According to Paul Krugman, an Economist at Princeton University, the average price of an airline ticket in 1975 was around $500. Adjusted for inflation, it would be over $2,000 today. What is the average ticket price in the U.S. today? It's about $200. We're getting a bargain.

But I think (I am not sure about this) that everyone paid that price. After de-regulation, they started charging business travelers (their best customers) more because in many cases they could not plan ahead. And those higher fares, to this day, subsidize the cheaper 'advance' fares. The low fare carriers came in, with their lower cost structures, and forced fares down, yes. But I just punched in a random reservation on US Airways, CLT to BOS, tomorrow's fare is $1200, July 19 is $600.

At least they ended (because they had to) the deplorable practice of requiring a Saturday night stay for a cheaper fare. That was squarely aimed at business travelers to soak them for the higher fare. Again, their best customers. edit: And actually, now that I think about it, some of the airlines are getting back to this in one form or another.

Advance (in most cases leisure) fares are probably as low as they're going to get unless fuel prices go back down. But they are still subzidized by their best customers.

Edited June 18, 2009 by JayGee

[Skyybutter]

Cue Drum Rolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

On the Agenda for City Council approval on Monday is a contract to replace the CRT Flight Info monitors with 40" LCD screens. Praise Jesus...never thought I would live to see this day.

Finally. SO embaressing for a hub airpot to look as rundown as CLT does. As an employee for Us Airways let me just say that the airport sould not make decisions based on US's plans. THink Pittsburgh...USAir promised to never leave PIT...So the city built that great new airport in that cow pasture and look now...No US Airways hub....theyve actually boarded up some of the concourses at the end because they just dont use them. My experience with US Airways is dont trust anything they say. They have now asked the DOT to pushback Beijing service to 2011. Remember it was supposed to start this year out of PHL... The airline industry is bleeding and US has the least attractive route structure of any of the big 6 airlines. DOnt be suprised to see a huge shakeup in the industry later this year or early next year..

[CltFlyer]

Dec 17 marks another major milestone mark in CLT history. Using 762's from reduced winter Euro flights from Philly. US is adding a i think seasonal NONSTOP flight between Clt and Hnl Honolulu (mind my spelling)

No links yet but it is bookable on Usairways.com

Edited June 20, 2009 by CltFlyer