John Hargrove

I eat there more often than anywhere else. Love Red Mug.

Would love to see it redeveloped as an extension of Baldwin Park. Not sure we need a mall at all. Build a new neighborhood. Downtown could use it.

You have failed.

I've walked into Artisan's Table a half dozen times and literally every time I've timed it such that "we're on a limited menu between Lunch and Dinner" or whatever. Walked out every time. Just an anecdote. Maybe typical for this type of establishment. I'm not very classy.

Yep, I understand that. I mentioned the fact that its cheap as far as downtown buildings go nationally. Don't get me wrong -- I don't want something for nothing. I'm just making an observation here.

Yeah I'd consider it, if I was in a better position to buy. Downtown WG is great. Far less likely to be bothered by homeless or become the victim of petty crime. Also, lots less drunk college kids vomiting on the sidewalks. Has it changed a lot? I've only noticed it over the last couple years. I was basically unaware of it before then. 55 West has excellent building quality paired with the absolute worst group of people you can choose to live with in Downtown. Scumbag city.

This is also true. Orlando's downtown rents are high for Orlando, but they are normal and maybe even cheap for downtowns in general. Another issue, and this is a bigger, broader, not-just-Orlando thing, is that rents have been generally outpacing household income for like 50 years. If the trend remains, you will have to basically be in the top 2-5% bracket of earners to live downtown with a Family. Not a good thing in my mind. I also have no solution for it. Land is driven up by demand, construction costs continue to rise, etc.

You and me both. I don't want to leave downtown, but I need at least 3 rooms. $2800/month for 3+den in 55W. Probably will end up going to Winter Garden. It's a nice place to live. I'd love a house downtown, but the options are incredibly limited. Not just in price, but in size, age, how well maintained they are.

One less surface lot.

My thoughts exactly.

You should write a book full of these anecdotes. I love them. I'll buy 100 copies!

There's 20+ cars parked there today and has been for the last few weeks. I don't see any changes here.

How many work at the space facilities on the coast? Seems like there would be more to support all that outside of Orlando.

Yeah unfortunately Lake Nona's air access is miles (literally) ahead of downtown.

Agreed. More from the tourism aspect than the job aspect, though, by the looks of things. 88 jobs for a facility that size is very low. But those 50K visitors? Yeah, I'd take those in downtown any day.

That has happened to me at literally every gas station within downtown Orlando. Unfortunately being harassed by homeless and/or the mentally ill or substance abusers is just part of life in this city. Or perhaps any decently sized city.

The bridge is still not even getting started until I-4 is complete in that section, right? If I recall I'd not be able to use this trail for SEVERAL more years. I'd given up on thinking about it.

My apartment overlooks this lot. I've been checking it the last few days and it has been empty. But, it has gone through periods of being empty before. I'm not sure it means anything. I'll post if I notice any significant changes.

I wish we had a sub-forum for photo posts. One megathread is sort of cumbersome but millions of individual posts scattered between normal discussion also seems not great. Thanks for the pics, they're great!

Whatever you do, don't you dare touch Taqueria Ameca.

I see. Yeah, I meant to say that 20K doesn't seem like a lot in that I feel like we might already be there. I think we have a lot of reverse commuters in downtown Orlando, though. Once you take the trouble of getting in the car, shopping elsewhere is a lot easier.

20k doesn't seem like a lot to me but perhaps I'm not understanding what the boundaries of that measurement are. Is it for the entire DDB area or just the CBD or what? There have been thousands of new residential units built in downtown. But residential development in the CBD seems to have died down.

Retail facing retail is an interesting observation. I don't think I've ever made that connection. A good example of this in downtown is Central Ave between Lake Ave and Osceola Ave. It might be the only place in all of downtown that legitimately feels like a place you can shop. Very interesting.

I've been grabbed maybe 3 times in 6 years. That's 3 times too many. On one other occasion I was followed home multiple times by the same person who was miffed because on one occasion I didn't acknowledge them. I had blown them off while walking by because I had been at the office for almost 16 hours and didn't want to deal with it. They took it extremely personally. So all I can say is that, (1) I would often work late at the office, so walking home after dark was the usual, (2) it was substantially worse if I walked down Pine Street. The businesses on Church seem to keep it pushed back a bit, (3) I have, during the time I've lived here, used my car maybe once or twice a month on average, which means I'm leaving the house and walking a good distance 2-3 times every day. My exposure may be higher than yours, particularly if you don't work downtown and your commute doesn't involve walking. I wish my experiences reflected yours. Here's a try: go walk by the public library once a day for a month. Report your experiences. I predict you go 30 for 30 on being solicited in some way. It's very, very, extremely unlikely to traverse parts of our downtown without interaction with the homeless. EDIT: I read what you said again and I think your experiences likely aren't that different from mine. What it probably comes down to is personal tolerance for being harassed. It has worn on me significantly over the years, and every time it happens I get a little less patient with it. Some days you just want to go for a walk and not get f'kd with. This is hard to do in Orlando.

I assume this is only true for "last mile" type infrastructure. Surely there is an additional infrastructural burden placed on government when there is overall lower population density. More highways, more long run utility delivery, emergency services spread over a wider area, less options for transit, expansion of the bus network, etc.