Triangle road & traffic thread

[Eastwestrob]

I just got back from visiting Raleigh-Durham. I have always known that the areas roadways are astoudingly dark, but this time it really struck me hard. I am not just shocked, but outraged. Portions of I-40 through Wake County look like it is in the middle of the desert. I can't believe there hasn't been more of an outcry about the inadequate lighting.

I have always wondered what a stranded motorist would go through on these roads

Try driving it during a thunderstorm - terrifying. No light, invisble lanes because of pavement markings and reflectors long eroded away, a dangerous stretch of highway in bad weather, though it is very well landscaped. This is a Triangle-wide problem - the Chapel Hill bypass is pitch dark, and I've had some scary near-miss deer encounters, and there was a pedestrian death out there late this winter. Ditto for 15-501 in south Chapel Hill, which passes a few big resedential areas, and 15-501 (a busy stretch of highway) in Durham between I-40 and I-85.

The deer threat is a real problem as they will just stand there and watch you hit them. At least with some lighting you could have a chance to avoid hitting them.

[ChiefJoJo]

I do believe the Triangle is scheduled to get it's first set of freeway lights this year!

On the new I-85 in Durham and US 1/64 in Cary. I'm sure that the next set of projects that are done along I-40 somewhere will have lights... when that will happen, I don't know.

[pack-man]

There is no excuse why streetlights weren't put in when they widened I-40 between RTP and Chapel Hill. This section is highly travelled at night and goes through some pretty forested areas. We will have to wait and see. But my guess is that the best time to install lights is when you are doing a major modification to the highway. Oppurtunity missed.

[Transplant]

Is there a standard used for determining when lighting is installed? Have we met that criteria?

[pack-man]

After some digging on the DOT website (tough to navigate) ... this is the NCDOT lighting policy.

Essentially, it is a formula that accounts for nightly traffic volumes, crash history, geometrics (alignment, lane width, sight distance, etc.), and initial and annualized cost (maintenance).

I don't know what that formula is, but if you have a freeway with a high nighttime traffic volume (I-85 would probably be the best example) and it has a moderate crash history, it probably will warrant lighting. I would bet that nightly traffic volumes are the biggest factor in the equation, but of course with money tight these days, it is probably on of the first things to be cut in a "value engineering" analysis. It's also possible that some roads have been fitted with conduit initially (part of the startup cost), and once the warrant is met, the light poles can be added. Remember that the cost to be considered is not just the initial cost, but the maintenance cost over time as well. It's also important to note that municipalities can and do pay for lighting on DOT roads. That might apply to US 401 in Fuquay-Varina (mentioned earlier), where I would bet the town paid for some or all of the cost of lighting the roadway.

As for I-440, it was widened in the mid 90s, and probably had relatively minor nighttime traffic (as compared to daytime rush hours) at that time (serves mostly commuters), and probably just did not warrant the cost... probably the same for I-40, although with both roads increasing traffic each year, if they were widened now, they might justify lighting.

[Transplant]

pack-man: Thank you.... I should have looked on the earlier pages.

[avery]

Story on WRAL about this again. Looks like a Golden Corral is in the way and some locals are upset?

US 1 Widening

[orulz]

Story on WRAL about this again. Looks like a Golden Corral is in the way and some locals are upset?

US 1 Widening

The article mentions a number of cloverleaf interchanges, at Durant Road and US 1 Business in Wake Forest.

Somebody tell me... why the heck do these roads need cloverleaf interchanges?? Wouldn't a diamond be enough?

And, isn't this US 1 corridor project supposed to take into account more than just widening US 1?

[avery]

Probably less expensive too.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Hopefully the kind of traffic conditions that have taken place at the Cary/Apex end will not happen whenever U.S. I(Capital Blvd) is widened. But I fear it will. There's got to be a way to complete the roadwork yet not time up traffic like I saw whenever I visit my friends in Apex. Perhaps the work can be done mostly at night from like 9 P.M to 7 A.M.

[Jerseyman4]

Most likely, these will be cloverleafs with collector/distributor lanes. These work very well than traditional cloverleaves but they take up too much space.

Through sprawluburbia, US 1 has limited space to build interchanges in northern Wake/southern Franklin counties so i believe single Point Urban Interchanges would be the best idea to remove the signalized intersections (minimize ROW issues as well). There is one being built already at the Wake Forest Bypass north on US 1 and look, they take up less space than the cloverleaf would.

[orulz]

I was more thinking along the lines that the WRAL reporter didn't know what the heck he was talking about, and was using the wrong terminology. Maybe they actually are planning diamond interchanges, or even something more fun like a Volleyball or a SPUI, but the reporter just got it wrong.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the webpage for the study. It illustrates all the alternatives considered. They are looking at a one or several combinations of expressway, freeway, frontage rds, partial access control, and HOV lanes for the corridor. In case you are wondering, extending TTA's phase 2 line was open to consideration, but when they did the origin-destination survey (to see where trips are beginning/ending), the distribution was too spread out for rail transit to be viable. Lots of ppl going to RTP, but also to SE Raleigh, DT Raleigh and elsewhere.

[Jerseyman4]

I like this alternative

During peak travel hours, perhaps making left two lanes HOV 2 or 3 would be a good idea while from 6am to 12 midnight can resume the one HOV lane. I think it would be silly to have an HOV lane in operation between midnight and 5am so instead, that would be understood as the passing lane.

[RiverwoodCLT]

NCDOT needs to go to Texas and see how they build urban freeways.

You only see clover-leafs only at major roads.

http://www.lonestarroads.com/sh300-399/sh-...agnes_st_01.jpg

As you can see the freeway goes over the road, with an exit off the freeway to a service road.

Texas builds service roads next to it freeways, so there is no reason for a lot of clover-leafs. Also the land next to the freeway can be access from the freeway.

[Jerseyman4]

Not to sound rude but that was a loudsy photo to give an example which at first, i had to figure out what you were talking about.

This is what Riverwood is talking about, click here and here and here.

Click here for the full TX 388 freeway page.

[DanRNC]

After years of planning and delays construction begins this week on the 15-501 Superstreet project. This intersection of 15-501, Erwin Rd., and Europa drive is currently a disaster. Hopefully this project will resolve current issues.

Project Link

[carynative]

This will be a great project. DOTs working on one down near Wilmington on 17 too. Itll tkae getting used too but should make it much easier and quicker to get through that intersection.

[orulz]

Y'know, superstreet conversion aside, this road would function 10 times better if they gave even the slightest consideration to signal timing.

As it is, in heavy traffic or no traffic, no matter the time of day, no matter which direction you're traveling, you WILL get stopped at more than half the stoplights. Seriously - I can't recall ever making it through more than one stoplight at a time. People talk about Capital Boulevard and how awful it is, but it can't even begin to compare with how frustrating 15-501 is. On Capital, you can usually make it at least a mile or two before getting stopped at a light. On 15-501 you're lucky to make half a mile between stops.

[DanRNC]

On Capital, you can usually make it at least a mile or two before getting stopped at a light. On 15-501 you're lucky to make half a mile between stops.

Oh I know that.

[RaleighInvestor]

I do not think that this will be a significant improvement, and if anything, will actually be a daily hindrance to those who work in Europa Center or live off of Erwin Road.

It seems like a bad plan, and has even been acknowledged by its own engineers as a short term solution. Why not go for a long-term solution? Anything but U-turns.

[ChiefJoJo]

I'm not involved in this project, but the reason for no long term solution is MONEY, or lack of it. This will provide a big boost for 15/501 traffic and intersection safety, with some delays for cross street drivers who turn left or across--although it may be less pronounced than you'd think. Superstreets work well elsewhere in the US... give it a chance.

[blburton]

Since this project has been delayed since who knows how long, I fear that once completed, it will be obsolete by the time it's completed... but I guess it's better than the current situation.

[dmccall]

Seriously - I can't recall ever making it through more than one stoplight at a time. People talk about Capital Boulevard and how awful it is, but it can't even begin to compare with how frustrating 15-501 is.

I TOTALLY agree with you. When I was over there ('87-'96 + dating my lady for 3 years) I got SO SICK of that road. The problem was that to get ANYTHING, I found myself out there again. Time after time the Chapel Hill stores were out of something or the movie was playing in Durham or something. I finally ended up turning at Wendy's and taking that back road, but it wasn't great either. With Southpoint, Staples, Lowes, and Barnes and Noble, I imagine living over there is a bit easier now.

[pack-man]

This will be a great project. DOTs working on one down near Wilmington on 17 too. Itll tkae getting used too but should make it much easier and quicker to get through that intersection.

Complete disaster for people driving on US17. This slows traffic down and this portion of the road is now a joke. In this portion of US17, a single bridge interchange should've been considered avoiding all the lights necessary to make this work.