Panel recommends CATS tax

[itsjustme3]

So only "have nots" use public transportation? Interesting.

Funny, all the pro-CATS people do is talk about how badly the poor will suffer if CATS goes away. And how the poor bus riders can't/shouldn't pay the increase because they can't afford it.

In south Louisiana with our hot humid wet climate, do you honestly believe if a person could afford a car that they wouldn't be driving?

The suburbs only remain a viable alternative to more dense development as long as fuel prices are low. As fuel costs increase, living in more urban areas will become more competitive if not cheaper. As more people live in urban walkable areas, mass transit becomes more feasible(for the everyday citizen) and the cycle continues. So do not suggest that there is a downward spiral that is impossible to correct. Fuel prices will change peoples living patterns just as cheap fuel prices drove people to the suburbs. Baton Rouge needs to be ahead of the game, not behind.

You're kidding yourself if you think people are going to come back to urban areas. Lower taxes, less crime, better schools are all reasons to pay a little more in gas.

[cajun]

So only "have nots" use public transportation? Interesting.

In Baton Rouge, absolutely yes. And if that wasn't the case, service to the poor wouldn't be a primary component of the argument for CATS. Buses do not get people from their cars in suburban areas.

The largest area in town that buses could work is already services by Tiger Trails....who replaced CATS. The students who use it pay for it via student fees.

[buckett5425]

Funny, all the pro-CATS people do is talk about how badly the poor will suffer if CATS goes away. And how the poor bus riders can't/shouldn't pay the increase because they can't afford it.

In south Louisiana with our hot humid wet climate, do you honestly believe if a person could afford a car that they wouldn't be driving?

You're kidding yourself if you think people are going to come back to urban areas. Lower taxes, less crime, better schools are all reasons to pay a little more in gas.

How much more?

Speaking of subsides, how about all those subsidies and tax breaks for oil companies. My tax dollars being spent to lower the cost to fill up your vehicle. Noticing a trend here?

[Antrell Williams]

Are you suggesting that we stop maintaining public right of ways? Maybe you'd be happier in a city without adequate roads.

When have you, as a citizen, not used a street or sidewalk or depend on a product or service that was not brought to you on a road?

The buses that you demand requires them, as an added layer of public service. Streets are far more necessary as basic public infrastructure than vehicles that transport citizens on them.

Why? What is the difference? The taxpayers are subsidizing the transportation for people. What is to stop them from buying cars for citizens? Since subsidies public transit is now a right, where does the entitlement culture stop?

The federal and state govenments already cover

cell phones, broadband, health care, and food.

Why is the mark of a "good city" one that involves taking from the producers of society and giving to those that don't contribute or contribute very little?

People with that train of thought are always the first to exercise the hypocrisy of criticizing those who move to the suburbs......and always the first to ridicule people who choose not to be robbed blind to pay for crappy public service and bloated government that they don't need.

Baton Rouge's taxes need to remain competitive to the suburbs...otherwise, the city will start a downward spiral that is impossible to correct.

The entire city will be just a little closer to failure if the tax passes because of the unfair nature of the tax and the low usage of public transit. This will incentivize the tax base's already rapid movement to the suburbs.

How do you feel about the I-10 and I-12 widening projects? Millions of dollars and years of annoying construction to add one lane of traffic that will fill up as soon as it opens. That is just as pointless as this tax proposal passing and then failing. More roads = worse traffic. I remember when we first moved to Prairieville, traffic didn't really exist, but now traffic backs up to the Fairgrounds from Hwy 42, crossing parish line. That change was in roughly 10 years, think thats going to get better?

You can tell the future too?

Funny, all the pro-CATS people do is talk about how badly the poor will suffer if CATS goes away. And how the poor bus riders can't/shouldn't pay the increase because they can't afford it.

In south Louisiana with our hot humid wet climate, do you honestly believe if a person could afford a car that they wouldn't be driving?

You're kidding yourself if you think people are going to come back to urban areas. Lower taxes, less crime, better schools are all reasons to pay a little more in gas.

Many New Orleans residents don't have cars. Many of them choose not to drive while others can't afford to.

You think people will want to drive 1 hour and a half to Denham or Gonzales while paying $5.50/gal? You're kidding yourself if you think that. Numbers show that people aren't moving to the suburbs as fast as they were 10 years ago. A little more in gas? It's a fact that the money and time spent in gas often times is more expensive than living close to your workplace.

In Baton Rouge, absolutely yes. And if that wasn't the case, service to the poor wouldn't be a primary component of the argument for CATS. Buses do not get people from their cars in suburban areas.

The largest area in town that buses could work is already services by Tiger Trails....who replaced CATS. The students who use it pay for it via student fees.

Buses get people without cars from any area. Buses could work in south BR and Mid-City up to Southern and BTR. Mid-City up to BTR is pretty urban and low-income, why woulnd't a reliable system work? South Baton Rouge is highly populated and is home to many of the regions amenites, people without cars like to go places too.

Is there a transit devil lurking over Baton Rouge?

[cajun]

How do you feel about the I-10 and I-12 widening projects? Millions of dollars and years of annoying construction to add one lane of traffic that will fill up as soon as it opens. That is just as pointless as this tax proposal passing and then failing. More roads = worse traffic. I remember when we first moved to Prairieville, traffic didn't really exist, but now traffic backs up to the Fairgrounds from Hwy 42, crossing parish line. That change was in roughly 10 years, think thats going to get better?

You can tell the future too?

Why did you move to the suburbs?

Ascension and Livingston grew by 20% or more in the last decade. EBR by only 6%, and Baton Rouge proper is stagnant.

The trend is still alive....and by raising taxes to support public services that most won't use will justify those moves to the burbs just a little more.

Many New Orleans residents don't have cars. Many of them choose not to drive while others can't afford to.

NOLA has way more walk-able neighborhoods and a much denser population base.

You think people will want to drive 1 hour and a half to Denham or Gonzales while paying $5.50/gal? You're kidding yourself if you think that. Numbers show that people aren't moving to the suburbs as fast as they were 10 years ago. A little more in gas? It's a fact that the money and time spent in gas often times is more expensive than living close to your workplace.

People are still are moving to the suburbs and commuting for work.. The only shift in this trend that I've read about or noticed is that their employers are now following them to the suburbs.

Young singles have always been attracted to urban cores. The "trends" many like to cite are in cities that have been wildly successful at attracting more young professionals than they have in the past. BR has made progress in the area, but coming out of the 1980s oil bust, anything looks like progress.

Buses get people without cars from any area. Buses could work in south BR and Mid-City up to Southern and BTR. Mid-City up to BTR is pretty urban and low-income, why woulnd't a reliable system work? South Baton Rouge is highly populated and is home to many of the regions amenites, people without cars like to go places too.

Is there a transit devil lurking over Baton Rouge?

Why not shut down routes with low ridership and expand routes with above average ridership? Everything I've read about this indicated that the successful routes are in the area you highlighted...but the proposal offers vastly more service in suburban areas with little to no demand for public transit?

The plan proposed is not the scale of what Baton Rouge needs.

[buckett5425]

NOLA has way more walk-able neighborhoods and a much denser population base.

You're right. It works in New Orleans, absolutely no reason it can't work here. Denser development save families and city governments money. Plain and simple.

I'm not saying EVERY family needs to pick up and move into the city, that's stupid. They can stay in the suburbs. But its short sighted to leave our city with only one transportation option, the automobile. A successful city should give people many different choices, wether that be downtown, a walkable community, or suburbia. Also, in Louisiana the population trend is that many people are still moving into the suburbs. However, in other urban areas of the country, the trend is reversing. We all know Baton Rouge is always 20 years behind the trends. Give it some more time.

I also read in a story a month ago that mass transit use is at its highest levels since the 1950's right before the passage of the interstate highway bill where transit use declined to a all time low in the 70's. This trend is unrelated to fuel prices and is instead a result of lifestyle changes.

[Antrell Williams]

Why did you move to the suburbs?

Ascension and Livingston grew by 20% or more in the last decade. EBR by only 6%, and Baton Rouge proper is stagnant.

The trend is still alive....and by raising taxes to support public services that most won't use will justify those moves to the burbs just a little more.

NOLA has way more walk-able neighborhoods and a much denser population base.

People are still are moving to the suburbs and commuting for work.. The only shift in this trend that I've read about or noticed is that their employers are now following them to the suburbs.

Young singles have always been attracted to urban cores. The "trends" many like to cite are in cities that have been wildly successful at attracting more young professionals than they have in the past. BR has made progress in the area, but coming out of the 1980s oil bust, anything looks like progress.

Why not shut down routes with low ridership and expand routes with above average ridership? Everything I've read about this indicated that the successful routes are in the area you highlighted...but the proposal offers vastly more service in suburban areas with little to no demand for public transit?

The plan proposed is not the scale of what Baton Rouge needs.

I moved because my mom moved. The trend is alive i most of America. Once again, do you think people will drive a hour and a half to downtown when gas is $5.50/gal? The cost to commute will not be worth the good schools.

Houston has much less walkable and denser neighborhoods and a much better system than RTA.

Where in the proposal do you see too much service in suburban area?

If you think this proposal isn't what BR needs, you'd hate to stroll through my brain. This city needs it all, as does every other one.

[itsjustme3]

I moved because my mom moved. The trend is alive i most of America. Once again, do you think people will drive a hour and a half to downtown when gas is $5.50/gal? The cost to commute will not be worth the good schools.

You know how I know you don't have kids?

[Antrell Williams]

You know how I know you don't have kids?

Doesn't matter. Suburbs won't be worth it forever.

[itsjustme3]

Doesn't matter. Suburbs won't be worth it forever.

It doesn't matter? Seriously? Saying what someone would and wouldn't do for their kids (schools) when the person DOESN'T have kids does matter.

[Antrell Williams]

It doesn't matter? Seriously? Saying what someone would and wouldn't do for their kids (schools) when the person DOESN'T have kids does matter.

You think schools (and QOL) in BR will be bad forever?

[itsjustme3]

You think schools (and QOL) in BR will be bad forever?

That's a impossible question to answer. We are talking about today.

[Antrell Williams]

That's a impossible question to answer. We are talking about today.

How is that impossible to answer? Somehow you know that CATS will fail in the future.

Furthermore, it's an opinion, not a hard question to answer.

[itsjustme3]

How is that impossible to answer? Somehow you know that CATS will fail in the future.

Furthermore, it's an opinion, not a hard question to answer.

Yes CATS is going to fail. Its failed in the past which is why were having this discussion and why they have to take (tax) money from property owners (who don't use the bus).

Now if the school board was trying to increase a new tax I can assure you we'd be having a discussion about how the horrible EBR public schools are and how throwing money at a problem that has had money thrown at it before doesn't fix what's broken.

[Antrell Williams]

Yes CATS is going to fail. Its failed in the past which is why were having this discussion and why they have to take (tax) money from property owners (who don't use the bus).

Now if the school board was trying to increase a new tax I can assure you we'd be having a discussion about how the horrible EBR public schools are and how throwing money at a problem that has had money thrown at it before doesn't fix what's broken.

If the school boards primary issue was its budget, more funding would help, no?

Would you support it if it was cut in half?

Don't remember if you answered this but do you live in EBR?

[itsjustme3]

If the school boards primary issue was its budget, more funding would help, no?

Would you support it if it was cut in half?

Don't remember if you answered this but do you live in EBR?

No offense but we are kinda straying off topic.

[cajun]

Doesn't matter. Suburbs won't be worth it forever.

Can't just sit back and wait for the day for gas prices to be so oppressive that people move back to the city. That day will never happen unless actions are taken to improve schools and safety in the city. If not, employers will move to the suburbs as they have been recently.

The Jindal camp is making a huge gamble with these school reforms. CATS is making a huge gamble with this tax proposal. If successful, both initiatives could make the cities in Louisiana more attractive places to live.

I'd like them both to work, but I have my doubts. I'd honestly bet on public schools before I'd bet on CATS making a comeback.

[itsjustme3]

Some people have this absolute disgust for suburbs, but fail to realize that unless urban areas adapt the things that have made suburbs so popular (safe, better schools, fewer taxes) then businesses will leave. Just because it's a urban area doesn't mean it's not capable of losing all it's businesses. Just look at Detriot.

[Antrell Williams]

Can't just sit back and wait for the day for gas prices to be so oppressive that people move back to the city. That day will never happen unless actions are taken to improve schools and safety in the city. If not, employers will move to the suburbs as they have been recently.

The Jindal camp is making a huge gamble with these school reforms. CATS is making a huge gamble with this tax proposal. If successful, both initiatives could make the cities in Louisiana more attractive places to live.

I'd like them both to work, but I have my doubts. I'd honestly bet on public schools before I'd bet on CATS making a comeback.

Actions are being taken! Charter schools, education reform, CATS, etc are all aiming towards the QOL tagert in Baton Rouge.

Some people have this absolute disgust for suburbs, but fail to realize that unless urban areas adapt the things that have made suburbs so popular (safe, better schools, fewer taxes) then businesses will leave. Just because it's a urban area doesn't mean it's not capable of losing all it's businesses. Just look at Detriot.

And unless suburban areas adapt policies to grow smart, it won't be a better life in the suburbs. Just because today suburbs are popular doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. It has already happened in some instances in Houston.

No offense but we are kinda straying off topic.

We are still talking about the tax though.

[itsjustme3]

Just because today suburbs are popular doesn't mean they will be tomorrow.

Funny, that's exactly what I said about urban areas. Suburbs will always be more popular than places that have horrible schools, shootings every day and night, and ridiculous property taxes.

[Antrell Williams]

Funny, that's exactly what I said about urban areas. Suburbs will always be more popular than places that have horrible schools, shootings every day and night, and ridiculous property taxes.

One day suburbs will be exactly that.

[dan326]

Wouldn't it be neat if they had feeder vehicles, that where like those little tourist golf carts at theme parks that actually ran through neighborhoods and brought people to near the bus stops?? I would ride the bus if it was set up like that (along with other improvements).

[cajun]

One day suburbs will be exactly that.

An as history has proven, people will just move farther out.

People would rather living in Livingston parish than Baton Rouge right now. That anyone wants to live in that giant meth lab over EBR is a testament to how badly managed things are in Baton Rouge.

Buses won't bring them back. Schools and public safety improvements might.

[Antrell Williams]

Wouldn't it be neat if they had feeder vehicles, that where like those little tourist golf carts at theme parks that actually ran through neighborhoods and brought people to near the bus stops?? I would ride the bus if it was set up like that (along with other improvements).

I would too.

An as history has proven, people will just move farther out.

People would rather living in Livingston parish than Baton Rouge right now. That anyone wants to live in that giant meth lab over EBR is a testament to how badly managed things are in Baton Rouge.

Buses won't bring them back. Schools and public safety improvements might.

History hasn't proven this. There was only one time in which the suburbs grew rapidly in human history. People will move further out until it becomes too expensive. Buses won't bring them back but QOL will and public transit is a key factor in QOL.

You know how I know you don't live in EBR?

[itsjustme3]

People will move further out until it becomes too expensive.

You again have this ancient belief that downtowns are imperative to a persons well-being, as if this is the 1940's.

You also seem to think that one day suburbs are going to become so awful that then and only then urban areas will reap the benefits. Funny how you're not suggesting any positive reasons people would come back.