The Greensboro Triumph Center

[Urbanity]

This whole recent discussion got me curious and I just googled and found a Sept 2011 article referencing a location (East Friendly Avenue) which I don't think was reported before.   Was this?  If it was I missed this completely. Can anyone confirm.  

 

Honestly this makes the project more interesting to me though not necessarily more plausible.

Going by a look at the area and his "sketch" which appears to show a block between the two components of his proposal I would make an assumption that his vision is for one of two East Friendly areas:

 

1. Either side of E. Friendly bound by Lindsay on the North, Market on the South and the railroad tracks on the east,

2. The parcel bounded by Lindsay/Church/Friendly/Railroad and continue Islay street from Lindsay to Friendly.

 

I actually prefer the latter idea as it would recreate a grid there and make a neat pedestrian street level retail mall if done correctly - particularly if you could get the Children's museum to have a second entrance on the back.

 

Frankly on that note If he made a small children's theater (akin to Charlotte's Children's Theatre of Charlotte at the Imaginon) instead of the ludicrously proposed 4,000 seat concert center/performance arts center, and focused mainly on family oriented attractions such as a movie theatre and bowling alley and maybe a Dave and Busters instead of nightclubs, bars, adult entertainment (obviously not House of Blues or Saks 5th Avenue dreams) he would have a natural synergy with the Children's Museum with viable business offerings that fill a nice niche in Greensboro and perhaps the Triad in general.

 

The problem is everything he has put out to date is far from anything that coherent.   He still lists a ridiculous one size fits all proposal  that includes everything under the sun from "love boat" style entertainment (as mentioned already in DanRNC's post) to a collection of select designer boutique stores and bills that it "will be a major vacation site for the southeastern region which will compete with the entertainment centers such as Las Vegas, Broadway, Los Angeles, and Nashville."   That quoted part of his vision alone would make me avoid him like hell if I was an investor.   

 

Also if Mr. Cain hasn't bought any of the land yet or even have any options on it he is probably going to lose any opportunity there sooner rather than later as now that the market has ticked up and Greensboro's downtown is having some significant activity I can't imagine that land would stay vacant for long.   I'm going to go on a guess that he hasn't as you would think that some buzz would have already been picked up by the news on such a collection of parcels being bought/optioned.  

 

Finally even if the media didn't catch the buzz of parcels being bought/optioned you would think he would at least have to have money to option them.  Yet according to his renewed SEC Form D (was originally set to expire July 2012) that will now expire August 2015 there are a few red flags.   Among them is that the Issuer declined to disclose their size, requires a minimum of $5m per investor, and yet has none of the available equity (of up to $400m) sold/optioned to date (obviously he never had any "secret" investors from Florida).    He also wants/offers $10m in Sales Commission and $500,000 in Finders Fee, has no associated Broker/Dealer and wants to award himself $15m as CEO.   

 

Again - Based off of what I am looking at (and speculating on) this parcel could be a great development, but I do think Mr. Cain and his Exempt, Inc and the visions/hype put out to date is not going to have any involvement/resemblance to the final development at the end of the day.

 

[RALNATIVE]

Here's an article from 2007 that pretty much sums up the whole ordeal nicely:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2007/08/27/tidbits1.html?page=all

[Urbanity]

^Thanks for linking that.  It was linked once before but the link in the thread doesn't work so this is the first time I could read the actual article instead of comments about it.

 

Interesting about how wrong I was on the location (at least size).  I noticed that cityboi already laid out the locations back in 2012 which apparently is three city blocks and according to the article you linked are for properties already owned with no indication there are plans to sell.   For someone with no development experience whatsoever - a three block plan with no actual ownership of properties is kind of telling why I've seen you say pie in the sky about the proposal.

 

I still like my idea as a reasonable, attainable, and one that makes sense, but it seems Cain is not likely to follow reality based on all of this. 

[RALNATIVE]

The main point being that for someone with no experience and most likely no significant business assets in the form of property, cash, or other investments, it will be virtually impossible to get the needed funding for a development of this scope. Private investors won't even go there, and speaking of banks...forget it.

 

With the level of risk involved, a person will need considerable assets for collateral, unless they can secure a partner with the right resources. There is a reason why Cain has not named his "investors."

[DanRNC]

If Jim Melvin thinks it's BS it's not going anywhere. What is amazing is that it is a zombie that keeps sticking around after 6-7 years. I really hope Greensboro isn't this hard up for development ideas. 

[cityboi]

Actually the "Greensboro Triumph Center" is happening all over downtown......just as separate projects by different developers. Many of the elements found in Mr Cain's project are already happening (hotels, performing arts center, amusements(merry-go-round), apartments ect. I'm not sure what Mr Cain is thinking. Its one thing to make ambitious proposals. But continuing to propose a 4,000 seat concert hall when a 3,000 seat performing arts center is already under development baffles me. He also claims he has financial backing for the project. Other elements such as a bowling alley isn't out of the question. Actually a small bowling alley on the edge of downtown had been proposed. However the most unrealistic parts of his proposal are retail stores such as Barnes & Noble and Saks Fifth Avenue. Charlotte doesn't even have a downtown Saks Fifth Avenue and it will be a long time before Greensboro gets a store like that.

 

 Also, another project is going on Mr Cain's proposed site for the entertainment complex so even if Cain is Able to get even a small part of this project off the ground with the help of others, he is running out of land because other developers are purchasing properties he has sights on. I do agree the website should be more professional and he needs to kill the guestbook page. My guess is that the comments with the terrible grammar were posted on purpose to mock his entire proposal. It just seems suspicious to me. Not to offend Mr Cain but the colored pencil sketch looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old.

[Urbanity]

Actually the "Greensboro Triumph Center" is happening all over downtown......just as separate projects by different developers. Many of the elements found in Mr Cain's project are already happening (hotels, performing arts center, amusements(merry-go-round), apartments ect. 

Actually that's like saying Trump Charlotte is already happening because, you know, we're building other buildings and stuff that combined add up to the same thing in Uptown Charlotte.      

 

 My guess is that the comments with the terrible grammar were posted on purpose to mock his entire proposal. It just seems suspicious to me. 

The only thing I find suspicious about this project is Mr. Cain to be frank. 

 

Look at his site.  It's a Project Development site (with horrible grammar, mind you) for a supposedly luxury hotel (at one point two of them!), conference center, 400K seating Concert Hall and entertainment/retail mega-super-duper-colossus project that will rival Las Vegas of all places   and he quotes the bible (among other sources) and saying "God Bless" and talks about serving his neighbor as if he thinks it is for preaching to a church or a community center meeting rather than demonstrating a business case for the project in order to get investors involved.   

 

If you read the comments many of them appear to talk in religious terms of saying a blessing, and God working for his vision, etc.  My guess is he knew what he was doing (in his mind) all along by putting a guest book on the site and is having his fellow church members post to it thinking in some warped way that those comments somehow demonstrate community support.  

 

That should tell you all you need to know about his abilities to understand business as comments on a guestbook is not what Investors look for in proving the community supports a project.      

 

Where are the demographics and economics feasibility study?   Where is a legitimate (*cough* professional *cough*) rendering of the site with elevations and environmental factors. Hell - Where is the buildings planned on street map?!   Where is the alleged letter of credit?  He has none of that shown in almost seven years.  Seven years!  Why?  He never had anything but a dream to begin with  - one which was overhyped irresponsibly by the media until they bothered to investigate the guy and realize he had no way to deliver.  

Come to think of it many of his comments are as badly written as his site.  They seem as delusional as his almost decade long ramblings of this project.   Maybe he's posting the comments himself?  That I would believe.   Secret conspiracy theories of naysayers trying to mock his proposal and doom it - not so much...

[RALNATIVE]

All I have to say DanRNC and Urbanity is consider the source of a lot of this "information" over the past 6-7 years and you might just realize the origin of some of this hype.

[RALNATIVE]

If Jim Melvin thinks it's BS it's not going anywhere. What is amazing is that it is a zombie that keeps sticking around after 6-7 years. I really hope Greensboro isn't this hard up for development ideas. 

 

Here's an article that sheds some light on why all of these con artists and their "backers" seem to target Greensboro for their scams:

 

http://clemmonsfreepress.com/greensboro-amok-latest-scam-is-proposed-sale-of-renaissance-center/

[Jones_]

 

 

BTW - this is not picking on Greensboro (nor is it saying the city can't develop large regional draw projects) as every city experienced the hype fever of the pre-recession bust era (Trump Charlotte, anyone?) but I do think this particular project and its hype was one of the most extreme and over the top examples I ever read/witnessed.

 

 

Soleil Center in Raleigh was similar in my mind. 

[RALNATIVE]

Soleil Center in Raleigh was similar in my mind. 

 

There were some similarities, but it wasn't this wayyyy out there. I think that the Soleil Center developers had honest intentions. The main differences are that the Soleil partners had some level of credibility, substantial and proven finances, land under contract, and partners with a track record of development.

[DanRNC]

Soleil Center was actually advertised in high end publications as I remember. It was the wrong project, at the wrong place, and the wrong time. Saudi princes aren't moving to NC anytime soon.

[cityboi]

People wonder why this project was covered by the New & Record, Triad Business Journal, Fox 8, ect in the first place. The reason people took it seriously in the summer of 2007 was because information about it was being told to the media from the head of Downtown Greensboro Inc at the time which was Ray Gibbs. DGI is a credible organization and nobody at the time knew who was behind the Greensboro Triumph Center. There were reports about out of town investors from Orlando, Florida which led some to believe that maybe Disney was involved. Coincidently Disney had been planning urban entertainment centers in downtowns across the country around that time. The cost of the project kept rising. It went from $150 million to $ 200 million and finally $300 million. I think once people found out a local middle aged inexperienced black man was behind all this, the media dropped the story like a ton of bricks. Pre 2008, we lived in different times. There were big projects planned left and right in cities all across the country, including in Charlotte and Raleigh. After the Great Recession developers are now moving forward with projects, just not as large. I think a much scaled back version of the Greensboro Triumph Center without the concert hall, hotel, convention center and high end retail chains is possible. However Mr Cain needs to partner with someone who has had a lot of experience with urban development and build something right for the Greensboro market. I can see a Greensboro Triumph Center with a movie theater, bowling alley along with some office and apartments and other small entertainment venues. The idea of a downtown bowling alley was floated around a year or two ago by a developer and even Yes Weekly newspaper mentioned the idea.. A skating rink is a good idea as well because downtown lacks family attractions. I would also chose a new name. I never did like the name Greensboro Triumph Center. But any kind of urban mixed-use project of this type requires developers with a lot of experience and credibility like a Roy Carroll. Mr Cain has never built anything.

 

Also after some online investigation, I'm 99.9% sure one of Mr. Cain's immediate relatives had been posting on Urban Planet at the time  this project was first announced which means Mr Cain probably had been reading all the posts.

[JerseyBoy]

I think once people found out a local middle aged inexperienced black man was behind all this, the media dropped the story like a ton of bricks. 

 

Please explain why race is relevant to this matter. I would agree with you 100% if you had just used the adjective "inexperienced" for your description.

[Urbanity]

People wonder why this project was covered by the New & Record, Triad Business Journal, Fox 8, ect in the first place. The reason people took it seriously in the summer of 2007 was because information about it was being told to the media from the head of Downtown Greensboro Inc at the time which was Ray Gibbs. DGI is a credible organization and nobody at the time knew who was behind the Greensboro Triumph Center. There were reports about out of town investors from Orlando, Florida which led some to believe that maybe Disney was involved. Coincidently Disney had been planning urban entertainment centers in downtowns across the country around that time. The cost of the project kept rising. It went from $150 million to $ 200 million and finally $300 million. I think once people found out a local middle aged inexperienced black man was behind all this, the media dropped the story like a ton of bricks. Pre 2008, we lived in different times. There were big projects planned left and right in cities all across the country, including in Charlotte and Raleigh. After the Great Recession developers are now moving forward with projects, just not as large. I think a much scaled back version of the Greensboro Triumph Center without the concert hall, hotel, convention center and high end retail chains is possible. However Mr Cain needs to partner with someone who has had a lot of experience with urban development. I can see a Greensboro Triumph Center with a movie theater, bowling alley along with some office and apartments and other small entertainment venues. The idea of a downtown bowling alley was floated around a year or two ago. I would also chose a new name. I never did like the name Greensboro Triumph Center.

 

Also after some online investigation, I'm 99.9% sure one of Mr. Cain's immediate relatives had been posting on Urban Planet at the time  this project was first announced which means Mr Cain probably had been reading all the posts.

What a load of garbage.   If you honestly believe any of this I feel sorry for you more than anything.

 

This isn't the first time in the history of this thread that you tried to play a race card and imply the only reason people laughed at this project was because Cain was black. 

 

Also the only party who initiated (and kept alive repeatedly) statements of "Disney" involvement in this thread was you.   Look through the history of this thread - no one else brought it up, and no one else tried to make an argument for it.

 

I agree with a statement made earlier in this thread by another.  Ray Gibbs was never a credible source as already proven when he started to work for Cain.  Who I did find as credible was the city councilman (forgot his name) who went on record with the Business Journal to expose Cain as having no economic development studies or anything credible to back up his unrealistic hype.

 

The only point I agree with in you is that the media ran a fantasy  hype tale about it in the beginning.  

 

Yet as I already noted earlier and others have chimed in - the media in the pre-bust period went nuts and were irresponsible in their coverage of almost every city and their announced projects.  It was hype.  Hype alone.  No Substance.  That the media stopped doing that when the market started to fall  isn't some kind of cause and effect proof that the media is to blame for the lack of legitimacy of Cain.

 

I totally get your love of Greensboro.  I also get your blind boosterism of it at times.  I can go along with that.  What I don't get is the pretending that there are secret sources and conspiracy theories and racial discrimination and hate of Greensboro as the reasons of why a this project was met with skepticism and then ridicule.  The only reason it was met with such feelings and statements was in no small part due to the hype (and in relation to this board - Your hype) that reached weird proportions.

 

I hope Cain and his family and friends are reading this thread, maybe it will be a wake-up call that his reputation is not so good and he should focus on reality.   I hope anybody who actually gets contacted by Cain with an investment offer finds this thread when they google him.  What they'll find for the most part will be your postings over six years with enough wild "secret sources" stuff and strange and unrealistic (and unsubstantiated) hype about something that any credible investor would probably back away from very quickly.  I hope you see that and understand that you do more damage than skepticism. 

 

Last thought - In case you are upset at a few of us publicly knocking this ridiculous fantasy, I apologize.  I have no intention of making you upset or making you feel there is a hate on Greensboro, but let me remind you that you are the one who keeps resurrecting this thread and often times with stuff that is bizarre (the color pencil sketch being the most recent).  I think it's time to stop promoting Cain unless he actually offers facts and announced investors, land purchases, and professional diagrams.   

 

Note - I did edit my posting - particularly the last paragraph -  to make certain it was clear that my intention is not to attack someone/anyone personally.  I hope that is understood by those who read it.

[cityboi]

Please explain why race is relevant to this matter. I would agree with you 100% if you had just used the adjective "inexperienced" for your description.

 That was based on things I heard from people in the community. The reality is , you don't see too many African American developers taking on projects like this which could lead to some thinking the project isn't credible.  Even if Mr Cain had a lot of experience I think you would still find some who would doubt the project based on that alone. I personally dont care if you are white, black, brown or green. If you dont have any experience building anything, you are going to have a hard time convincing people a project like this is credible and the amateurish website with bible verses and childish drawings doesnt help matters. 

[cityboi]

What a load of garbage.   If you honestly believe any of this I feel sorry for you more than anything.

 

This isn't the first time in the history of this thread that you tried to play a race card and imply the only reason people laughed at this project was because Cain was black. 

 

Also the only party who initiated (and kept alive repeatedly) statements of "Disney" involvement in this thread was you.   Look through the history of this thread - no one else brought it up, and no one else tried to make an argument for it.

 

I agree with a statement made earlier in this thread by another.  Ray Gibbs was never a credible source as already proven when he started to work for Cain.  Who I did find as credible was the city councilman (forgot his name) who went on record with the Business Journal to expose Cain as having no economic development studies or anything credible to back up his unrealistic hype.

 

The only point I agree with in you is that the media ran a fantasy  hype tale about it in the beginning.  

 

Yet as I already noted earlier and others have chimed in - the media in the pre-bust period went nuts and were irresponsible in their coverage of almost every city and their announced projects.  It was hype.  Hype alone.  No Substance.  That the media stopped doing that when the market started to fall  isn't some kind of cause and effect proof that the media is to blame for the lack of legitimacy of Cain.

 

I totally get your love of Greensboro.  I also get your blind boosterism of it at times.  I can go along with that.  What I don't get is the pretending that there are secret sources and conspiracy theories and racial discrimination and hate of Greensboro as the reasons of why a project this project was met with skepticism and then ridicule.  

 

I hope Cain and his family and friends are reading this thread.  As I hope anybody who actually gets contacted by Cain with an investment offer finds it when they google him.  What they'll find for the most part will be your postings over six years with enough wild "secret sources" stuff and strange and unrealistic (and unsubstantiated) hype about something that any credible investor would probably back away from very quickly.

 

Last thought - In case you are upset at a few of us publicly knocking this ridiculous fantasy, let me remind you that you are the one who keeps resurrecting this thread.   

 

 

"hype about something that any credible investor would probably back away from very quickly." 

 

You mean like a number of projects in other cities in NC such as Trump Charlotte and the Soleil Center in Raleigh. Years before the Greensboro Triumph Center there was also some big scheme to build an entertainment destination with a Hard Rock Cafe' in downtown Winston-Salem by some out of town developer.  And what about that Major League Soccer stadium that was proposed for downtown Winston-Salem? I'm not even going to get into all the "world class city" hype and talk of Charlotte hosting the World Olympics games over in the Charlotte section of UP because there is a greater chance of the Greensboro Triumph Center becoming a reality than Charlotte landing the olympics. Greensboro is not unique when it comes to big hype and pie in the sky proposals. And if you go back and look through the forums and other sites on those projects, you'll see just as much as excitement from its posters along with the skeptics.

 

Im not arguing with you. Im actually agreeing with you. Mr Cain's plan is over the top.  I get that. But if you want to see over the top boosterism and blatant hatred of Greensboro, there is another posting forum dedicated to the city 28 miles west of Greensboro across the county line. You think I'm bad, You would think that place is Atlanta or Boston the way some people talk over there. But I guess you can't blame anyone for being excited about things going on in their community. We need more people with that kind of civic pride and engaged in what going on in the community.

 

As I said. a much scaled down version right for Greensboro without all the stuff I mentioned and with the help of an experienced developer, and the project is possible just like all the other projects going up downtown. Remember the planned Wyndham hotel started out under an inexperienced developer and it was laughed at. Once someone with some experience took over, the project came back from the dead, got some legs and the city is now working out a parking arrangement with the developer.

 

Also I wasn't the only one who thought the Triumph Center was Disney. People on other local blogs said that same thing. When you read things in the paper referring to the project as a mixed-use Southeastern U.S. entertainment destination link with an Orlando development company, I think most people will naturally think that. I was told by a DGI board member that a lot of people were thinking that at first. But you are right. There was a lot of hype in the media and fast reporting without gathering all the facts. As far as race goes, I have already responded to that in the previous post. Its not what I think. Its what I've heard people say, not some imaginary conspiracy theories. I agree, not everyone thinks that way. There are legitimate reasons outside of race to be skeptical of the project. However, after things that I have heard, i'm not going to pretend like race not an issue. Its all based on old stereotypes which i'm not going to get into. It may be 2014 and we have a black president, but there are still people around with that old mindset. Lets not stick our head in the sand and pretend we live in a colorblind world.

[RALNATIVE]

I'm going to be totally honest with you guys. After reading the TBJ and other articles on this "development", I have come to the conclusion that a development was actually not Cain's end goal. The sad reality is (and other fraudsters have used the same tactics), Cain was just probably trying to profit off of fees, advanced payments, etc. that are normally associated with initiating a large "economic stimulus" type development. It appears that he had no real plans for delivering a development.

 

The reason why I believe this is simple, if he were truly focused on developing something, he would have at least had the land deals in the works and close to completion before announcing any plans to build anything. This was like me saying that I'm going to build a house on your property, without me ever haven spoken to you about it first.

 

He truly had to know that he would not be able to deliver a project such as this, but with Greensboro's history, he may have well walked away from all of this with a large paycheck in the tune of millions. That was the payday he was truly seeking. As long as he could keep the hype going and the Greensboro leadership onboard, his scheme had a chance of making him some $$$. This is why

Cain is a zombie that refuses to go away. This scam has been played many times before.

 

Urbanity - I feel the same way that you do. I think that cityboi does more damage to Greensboro than he does good. It's very evident to me that he is more involved with this "Mr. Cain" than he will admit. It's funny how he plays either side when it suits his purpose, being for things when it benefits him, and then being not in favor of things when he sees that no one else is buying his hype. If his true goal is Greensboro boosterism, then he needs to go back to class. If his true goal is deception, then he's doing a poor job at that as well.

[cityboi]

Now this is a real conspiracy theory. Next thing you know, you'll be saying I'm Mr Cain 

 

"it's very evident to me that he is more involved with this "Mr. Cain" than he will admit. It's funny how he pays both side when it suits his"

[zalo]

Citiboi, the developer you are referring to in regards to the project in Winston-Salem that involved creating an entertainment district, (which I'm not sure included a Hard Rock or not, maybe...)  was the gentleman who was largely responsible for the resurrection of Beale Street in Memphis TN.  There was indeed a period, at least initially, of giving him the benefit of the doubt in terms of perhaps being able to make something happen since he had a documentable track record on which to base some degree of plausibility.  That credibility dissipated over the course of a year more or less after his business plan devolved into actually not purchasing the downtown buildings along Fourth & other side streets, but rather to have the owners of the buildings lease their properties to him at a price which would be low enough to accommodate him to rehab the structures into a vanilla space condition for the end user. It became apparent pretty soon that his proposals would not be going anywhere for obvious reasons, ergo it did not make economic sense. His efforts were not helped when word leaked out that some of his minor partners and associates painted him as someone with great vision, but sketchy follow through. The Winston press pretty much followed it along and reported the good along with the bad (which in my personal observations is not present at the N&R in similar stories.) The Downtown Winston-Salem Partnership was part of the discussions, but after some investigations, pretty much called it like they saw it.  And he left town and that was the end of it.

 

The Unity Place project showed a lot of promise prior to the implosion of the lead entity with that endeavor being Krispy Kreme. It was an ambitious project that had the corporate patron not been taken out of the picture could have been an iconic project for the Twin City. Participation by the UNCSA also provided credibility to the endeavor.  Alas, not all dreams come to fruition. You pick up and move on, such is life.  

 

I believe the point being made to you is that you have consistently resurrected in this forum a topic (Greensboro Triumph Center) that has been previously identified as a non-starter and in your quest to incessantly and aggressively hype the city 28 miles East of Winston-Salem are carrying on with topics that are frankly irrelevant to today. As a poster on that Winston-centric site that you relish to denigrate, I find it refreshing that posters on this blog have identified your passive/aggressive tendencies toward any position that is at odds with how you view the state of things as well as your thin-skinned sensitivity at your imagined slights toward High Point's neighbor.

[cityboi]

Citiboi, the developer you are referring to in regards to the project in Winston-Salem that involved creating an entertainment district, (which I'm not sure included a Hard Rock or not, maybe...)  was the gentleman who was largely responsible for the resurrection of Beale Street in Memphis TN.  There was indeed a period, at least initially, of giving him the benefit of the doubt in terms of perhaps being able to make something happen since he had a documentable track record on which to base some degree of plausibility.  That credibility dissipated over the course of a year more or less after his business plan devolved into actually not purchasing the downtown buildings along Fourth & other side streets, but rather to have the owners of the buildings lease their properties to him at a price which would be low enough to accommodate him to rehab the structures into a vanilla space condition for the end user. It became apparent pretty soon that his proposals would not be going anywhere for obvious reasons, ergo it did not make economic sense. His efforts were not helped when word leaked out that some of his minor partners and associates painted him as someone with great vision, but sketchy follow through. The Winston press pretty much followed it along and reported the good along with the bad (which in my personal observations is not present at the N&R in similar stories.) The Downtown Winston-Salem Partnership was part of the discussions, but after some investigations, pretty much called it like they saw it.  And he left town and that was the end of it.

 

The Unity Place project showed a lot of promise prior to the implosion of the lead entity with that endeavor being Krispy Kreme. It was an ambitious project that had the corporate patron not been taken out of the picture could have been an iconic project for the Twin City. Participation by the UNCSA also provided credibility to the endeavor.  Alas, not all dreams come to fruition. You pick up and move on, such is life.  

 

I believe the point being made to you is that you have consistently resurrected in this forum a topic (Greensboro Triumph Center) that has been previously identified as a non-starter and in your quest to incessantly and aggressively hype the city 28 miles East of Winston-Salem are carrying on with topics that are frankly irrelevant to today. As a poster on that Winston-centric site that you relish to denigrate, I find it refreshing that posters on this blog have identified your passive/aggressive tendencies toward any position that is at odds with how you view the state of things as well as your thin-skinned sensitivity at your imagined slights toward High Point's neighbor.

 

 

 

 

do you have a crystal ball? can you see the future? Even if this particular project doesn't make it off the ground, whos to say another developer with more experience wouldn't plan something similar on a modest scale? Also define hype. because there is a difference between being excited about things happening in a city and making a city out to be what its not which we see plenty of in Charlotte and Winston-Salem forums. I do think it speaks volumes when the site I referred to which you post on, allows posts on its city as well as all other NC cities except for Greensboro. and when it was allowed all posters did was post negative news like shootings and business closing down and all hell broke loose when someone posted positive news. When people sink to degrading other cities, thats far worse than boosterism and over hype in my book.

 

All I did was make a post about Mr Cain's sketches, being sarcastic because I thought they would get a laugh (I even thought they were odd) and all of a sudden Im hearing all this stuff about me over hyping this project which are old arguments from years ago. I'm not the one who keeps bringing old stuff up. Yes in the beginning I was highly optimistic but once the economy tanked, saw more details about his project in regards to tenants and really found out that he didnt have all the people involved that he claimed was involved my position changed in terms of his ability to develop a projects as he has proposed. Also the fact that other hotels and a performing arts center is being planned made me even less optimistic because those were key elements in his project. 

[DanRNC]

I think Greensboro (its civic/business leaders) really need to be introspective and realize what they are and aren't rather than always trying to compete with Charlotte or Raleigh. I live in a city with so many glitzy highrises and so many more being built it would make your head spin. But with all these buildings, the places locals really hang out and find most interesting are the older areas of town that haven't been overrun with high price development that saps the life out of the city. Places like Asheville and Greenville have pretty vibrant downtowns without bells and whistles all over the place. At the end of the day, its all about what works and what doesn't work for a city. As a former resident of the Triangle I can say Durham is starting to figure this out while Raleigh still has some growing pains and battles skyscraper envy sometimes. I also lived in Greensboro and understand some of the limitations there as far progress (or lack of) and being a Charlotte native I know all that glitters isn't gold there. Just saying.

[Urbanity]

I think Greensboro (its civic/business leaders) really need to be introspective and realize what they are and aren't rather than always trying to compete with Charlotte or Raleigh. I live in a city with so many glitzy highrises and so many more being built it would make your head spin. But with all these buildings, the places locals really hang out and find most interesting are the older areas of town that haven't been overrun with high price development that saps the life out of the city. Places like Asheville and Greenville have pretty vibrant downtowns without bells and whistles all over the place. At the end of the day, its all about what works and what doesn't work for a city. As a former resident of the Triangle I can say Durham is starting to figure this out while Raleigh still has some growing pains and battles skyscraper envy sometimes. I also lived in Greensboro and understand some of the limitations there as far progress (or lack of) and being a Charlotte native I know all that glitters isn't gold there. Just saying.

^Love this not only in relation to this thread but to city discussions in general.   I grew up in NYC and we hung out in the East Village, West Village, Hells Kitchen (pre - 2000 boom), etc and those areas felt alive without any skyscrapers or mega projects.   I also live now in Charlotte and agree with you that all that glitters in not gold there big is not necessarily better.

The main point though is the one on Greensboro to stop trying to define itself as the next  Charlotte or Raleigh, or even Winston Salem for that matter.    

Charlotte is simply going to be for the foreseeable and long term future the largest city in the state with biggest concentration of skyscrapers and all large city offerings that come from just hitting a certain population threshold (mass transit, culture, nightlife, companies, sports, etc).

Raleigh (Triangle) is by far the brain and upper class of the state that has a population that in general leads the rest of NC in income and education.  As such, combined with the State Government will always be a focal point for growth and companies seeking top tier employees, and retail offerings that cater to upper class.

 

Asheville is our Arts/Cultural/bohemian mecca and will remain the place where people who are creative will centralize.  

Wilmington is our Port city and center of our film/tv productions.

Winston Salem with Wake Forest and the School of the Arts along with its existing business focus is clearly in my mind the leader in the Triad region when it comes to Arts and Biotechnology.

 

But what about Greensboro?   The only thing that I have seen Greensboro try to build that is unique and not just a matter of trying to duplicate what other cities are doing/doing better is being a hub for airport cargo logistics (Fedex, etc) and sports tournaments via the Coliseum, area.   That is what I wish they would pursue with more gusto instead of hyping things like the Triumph Center (billed as larger than the Peabody Place in Memphis and Charlotte's Epicentre combined!)

 

It just seems like Greensboro has been stuck in a rut for at least a decade if not longer of trying to outdo other NC cities positives like Winston Salem's downtown University campus,Charlotte's Epicentre, and Durham's PAC as examples.   It's not that they can't have the same kind of things but they always need to appear to try to one up those cities existing and very successful projects but yet don't have a reason to other than claiming it would be the largest or more glamorous than the one they were copying.    

 

Hell - I would even give them credit for the latter rationale if it wasn't overhyped to begin with.  Which brings us full circle to the subject of this thread.  In the end Mr. Cain, the Triumph Center, and continuous reviving of this project here (and rationale that it is anything but that) is egg on the face of Greensboro.  It makes the city look bad.  No - not that one project alone destroys the city's reputation, but any argument that this was but a sham to begin with and that it ever had credibility.   BTW I stress credibility and not media or poster's hype. 

 

I think Greensboro needs to find itself and develop a path that is not overly reliant on other NC cities ideas/strengths if it wants to be more than just an afterthought in the state.   It's got such an incredible foundation in its downtown that could be exploited as pedestrian freindly and livable.  The fact that it doesn't have a major highway through its downtown could be a positive selling point.   Make the city an attraction to its own citizens first and then build upon that others, becuase in all honesty, outside of tournaments at the Coliseum, people outside of Greensboro do not think of Greensboro. 

[zalo]

Citiboi, why are asking me about forecasting the future? I have never before commented on this topic about the viability, feasibility or lucidity of the vaunted Greensboro Triumph Center. I find it strangely odd that this thread on a "non-project" has more pages than any topic on the Triad forum.

 

 I also don't need to define hype because you epitomize the word by your actions. You look to counter other Urban Planet posters comments questioning your over the top boosterism by deflecting responsibility for your actions on the un-named blog that frankly has no relevance on Urban Planet. It is a non-issue. This is just another example of your having to be right in every instance and everyone else being somehow wrong.

 

Since you have chosen to bring it up, as a point of clarification that particular blog determined that Greensboro posts would unfortunately have to be taken down solely due to the aggressive nature of your posts regarding Gate City happenings and your overt attempt to hi-jack the tone, tenor and purpose of that blog. There is no "hatred" of Greensboro there, the only negativity was in response to your provocative actions that inflamed certain situations. You are the one who was looking to denigrate Winston on a fairly private forum and tout the superiority of your city. The only one with responsibility for the outcome of that state of affairs is you. But once again, you look to play the victim when the person responsible for the situation stares back at you when you look in the mirror.

 

I enjoy this forum and look forward to getting back to discussing topics that provide a balance of critical analysis that is fair and accurate. Both Winston-Salem and Greensboro have a positive future ahead and there is reason to rejoice in that.

[RALNATIVE]

I think that DanRNC, Urbanity, and zalo all make some good points. Over the last decade, most of what we have witnessed in this forum has been feeble attempts to uplift Greensboro and overshadow anything else positive going on in other cities. All the while, the only perceivable impact has been a reflection of Greensboro as a city 1) that tries desperately to compete with larger NC cities, 2) tries to copy anything prominent that happens in other cities, and 3) a city that has truly run amok with no direction, goals, or realistic plans for the future.

 

I think that a number of recent negative political and economic events, which have also been well publicized, have done a lot to hurt Greensboro's overall image. No one takes this city seriously anymore.

 

When the state of NC looks to promote one of its cities to the rest of the world, they are going to look to Raleigh and Charlotte, and definitely not Greensboro. And who does Greensboro have to thank for this, people like cityboi, and Isaac Cain, and Ray Gibbs, and Skip Alston, etc.