John McCain for President

[Justadude]

McCain-Feingold only came after McCain was a key player in the Keating Five scandal. McCain was part of the problem back then, and it very nearly cost him his career.

[Justadude]

I agree with this from a military standpoint, but this is all the more reason the war should have been opposed from the beginning. From the very beginning it was frankly obvious to everyone in the world but the GOP that the war was unnecessary, and that Bush was lying to start the war. That McCain jumped on this bandwagon and to this day is still riding it shows what a warmonger he is.

[Gusterfell]

First, "everyone in the world but the GOP" does not include 110 Democratic members of Congress who voted "aye" when the resolution was passed (including Hillary Clinton), or the nearly two-thirds majority of the American public who openly supported the invasion at the time.

[Justadude]

The relevant point for this discussion is that McCain continues to support a war that never should have been fought.

[Gusterfell]

Again, whether the war should have been fought is irrelevant. The winner of the Presidential election will inherit the war, and WILL have to fight it... and I would much rather have someone who has done military service and seems to understand the fundamentals of military strategy under those circumstances. McCain is not some neocon chickenhawk, he is a military man who has the brass nuts to make tough decisions in the face of popular opposition... as he has done on the war while other politicos have flip-flopped according to poll results.

[Justadude]

Military strategy is for military brass to work out.

[erdogs]

The evidence suggests that the best move at this point is a staged withdrawal. It restored order in Vietnam, and it restored order in the parts of Iraq we've already abandoned. McCain's strategy of maintaining a presence until order is restored will prolong the occupation indefinitely, as that presence is itself the root cause of instability.

[monsoon]

^Your are correct in that all wars are different. The difference in this war with Iraq vs all other wars the USA has been involved in, is that we started this war. That is George Bush attacked and destroyed a country that posed no threat to the USA. No other President in USA history has ever done this. With a million people dead, millions more displaced, and the movement of Al Queda into Iraq as a result of the resulting chaos, we have unleashed a horror on those people that most in the USA are simply clueless about and which history will condemn us for in the future. (and which the more educated parts of the world have already done so) This will be remembered as one of the USA's darkest times for the amount of human suffering it has caused.

So morally and ethically, it behooves the USA to end this occupation as fast as it can to end the suffering of the poor people at the end our our gun barrels. I am fully convinced the Iraq people can solve their own problems and they don't need 165,000 American troops in there acting as a police force. Will John McCain be the one to do this. I don't know. I would hope after experiencing a similar horror in Vietnam, unlike Bush, he would be the first to want to end it, but I do realize that he has to get nominated by a party that is full of chicken hawks that are quick to call for war but are unwilling to fight it themselves.

If Americans really want to do the right thing, they will for for a democrat.

[erdogs]

^Your are correct in that all wars are different. The difference in this war with Iraq vs all other wars the USA has been involved in, is that we started this war. That is George Bush attacked and destroyed a country that posed no threat to the USA. No other President in USA history has ever done this. With a million people dead, millions more displaced, and the movement of Al Queda into Iraq as a result of the resulting chaos, we have unleashed a horror on those people that most in the USA are simply clueless about and which history will condemn us for in the future. (and which the more educated parts of the world have already done so) This will be remembered as one of the USA's darkest times for the amount of human suffering it has caused.

[monsoon]

.... it is our responsibility to do everything in our power to make things right and hopefully leave Iraq a better place than before we invaded. That is the only RIGHT thing to do in my opinion. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

[Southron]

The Change Candididate? I don't think so......

[erdogs]

I guess is all depends on what you consider to be moderate. The better question is who do you consider to be a moderate? To me a moderate isn't driven solely by ideology and has willingness to go off the reservation to do what you think is right. To me that's what McCain represents.

[monsoon]

^If you look at his history, both in his personal and professional life, there is nothing moderate about him. He is hardly a man of character as many have made him out to be and anyone that would call for constant war, i.e. which means the killing of innocents, when diplomacy could more than accomplish the same thing, is not moderate at all in my book.

The rather interesting thing about this, is that McCain is only coming back to the forefront of the GOP race simply because all of his contenders were that much worse. The media and even people here had written him off for dead a long time ago, not realizing that the seconding coming of Ronald Reagan wasn't going to happen and now we are back to McCain. My guess is that it will be his age, personal history, and record that will keep him from getting elected if he is nominated. Unlike GW Bush, whose past was carefully hidden from view, McCain long political record that isn't very pretty. (and leaving his 2nd wife while she was in the hospital for another woman isn't going to help either)

[Gusterfell]

I guess is all depends on what you consider to be moderate. The better question is who do you consider to be a moderate? To me a moderate isn't driven solely by ideology and has willingness to go off the reservation to do what you think is right. To me that's what McCain represents.

[erdogs]

I consider the mainstream of the Democratic party to be moderate. The American left has been marginalized for decades, and has very few prominent representatives in mainstream politics.

[Charlotteman]

[Justadude]

^ If past elections are any precedent, we should be very close to the point when the GOP turns on Bush. Unlike Reagan or Kennedy, he's not going to leave the kind of legacy that candidates will want to identify with. I'd expect that whoever takes the GOP nomination will spend a lot of time talking about what Bush did wrong and how they're going to fix it.

[Gusterfell]

So who in the Democratic mainstream do you consider moderate? Hillary? Obama? Edwards? The only true moderate in the Democratic party I can think of is Joe Biden, someone who I would easily vote for.

The American left has been marginalized for years because they do not represent what the majority wants. High taxes and a nanny state is not the American way. We have too much pride and desire to one-up the next person to be compliant on the state to take care of all our needs. Competition is what built this great nation and it is breed into our very being. All of that may change in the future, but for now that is who we are. If you are looking for someone like Kucinich to be president one day, you may never see it in your lifetime.

[Charlotteman]

Sen. McCain continues to draw stinging criticism from the Right. On Hardball today, Pat Buchanan railed against McCain, saying McCain has poked the Right in eye too many times over the years.

No matter who wins the Rep nomination, he will have to unite the party----- which will be no easy task at this point. Too many Rep liberals pretending to be conservatives. The party seems to be in a huge dichotomy.

[erdogs]

No matter who wins the Rep nomination, he will have to unite the party----- which will be no easy task at this point.

[Raintree21]

At what point will the far right say that McCain has the best chance of winning and endorse him instead of trying to tear him down. I would think they would rather have someone who kinda serves their interests as opposed to someone that purportedly would not (in their minds, a Democrat).

[monsoon]

^Probably after tomorrow. (super tuesday)

McCain has an awful lot of negatives. It's come out in the past few days on how much of a hothead he is in the senate and how many of his colleagues in his own party don't like working with him. I don't think that Hillary has as many negatives nor enemies as McCain but her husband Bill has recently reminded everyone that a lot of people disliked him when he left office and she has to carry that baggage around.

In a Hillary vs McCain race it it comes down to as bad a choice as Bush vs Kerry. It's a shame that we are left with panderers like this to choose from these days because it is tearing America apart. One only has to travel to Western Europe to see how far American is falling behind. While we continue to waste money on endless war, they are investing in continent wide high speed rail, infrastructure to make their businesses much more competitive, better cities, and social programs for their people that improve the standard of living for everyone. We need real leadership and I am afraid that McCain doesn't come anywhere close.

[monsoon]

A footnote to this. I just realized if this becomes a McCain vs Clinton race, then what we have is a repeat of the Clinton vs Bob Dole race of 1996. Bob Dole was an old man that "inherited" the position and the Clinton machine chewed him up as irrelevant, out of touch, too old, and needs to retire. I would expect they would do the same to McCain.

I think the GOP would have stood a better chance of winning with Romney.

[nowensone]

Sen. McCain continues to draw stinging criticism from the Right. On Hardball today, Pat Buchanan railed against McCain, saying McCain has poked the Right in eye too many times over the years.

[Gusterfell]

A footnote to this. I just realized if this becomes a McCain vs Clinton race, then what we have is a repeat of the Clinton vs Bob Dole race of 1996. Bob Dole was an old man that "inherited" the position and the Clinton machine chewed him up as irrelevant, out of touch, too old, and needs to retire. I would expect they would do the same to McCain.

I think the GOP would have stood a better chance of winning with Romney.