Highway and Road Construction Updates

[joeDowntown]

Here’s a story about widening 196 (starts in April), plus replacing the eastbound deck over the river. 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/gilchrist-visits-grand-rapids-to-tout-bonds-for-upgrading-i-196/

Joe

 

[Guest]

https://www.woodtv.com/news/traffic/traffic-tom-mdot-to-discuss-2021-projects/

Quote

• Rebuilding and widening eastbound and westbound I-196 from Fuller Avenue to Maryland Avenue. 
• Replacing the eastbound I-196 bridge deck over the Grand River at US-131.
• Rebuilding the US-131/M-179 interchange in Allegan County.
• Concrete joint repairs on M-6 in Kent County.
• Concrete joint repairs on I-96 in Ionia County.
• Freeway sign upgrades on US-131 in Kent County.
• Resurfacing and sidewalk ramp upgrades compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act on M-89 in Fennville.
• Resurfacing and ADA sidewalk ramp upgrades on M-21 in the city of Ionia.
• Resurfacing and widening of M-57 west of Greenville to add passing relief lanes.
• Resurfacing M-37 from Middleville to Caledonia, along with a new traffic signal at Finkbe

Interesting that the Gun Lake tribe is paying for the rebuilding of 131/M179.  It will take two years and will become a SPUI.

I drove M57 a few weeks ago and it was super busy even on a Saturday, the relief lanes are much needed

[Khorasaurus1]

Presumably signage upgrades on 131 includes the Cherry Street/BS-131 exit, which needs to actually say "Cherry Street" on the exit ramp, and needs, well, any signage at all where the ramps intersect with Cherry. 

[Raildude's dad]

Passing lanes on M-57??? It's about 15 miles from 131 to Greenville. Averaging 55mph takes27 minutes, averaging 65 mph takes 23 minutes.  Is there really a need for  passing lanes for 15 miles and 4 minutes? 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

Passing lanes on M-57??? It's about 15 miles from 131 to Greenville. Averaging 55mph takes27 minutes, averaging 65 mph takes 23 minutes.  Is there really a need for  passing lanes for 15 miles and 4 minutes? 

I've heard it's a mess during rush hour, people are moving further and further out.  

I did see a story about how MDOT implemented a road diet in Greenville on M57 and some of the village officials are not happy about it.

[wingbert]

21 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

Passing lanes on M-57??? It's about 15 miles from 131 to Greenville. Averaging 55mph takes27 minutes, averaging 65 mph takes 23 minutes.  Is there really a need for  passing lanes for 15 miles and 4 minutes? 

You’ve clearly never driven that stretch of road on a regular basis.  What’s the math on that drive if you’re the 12th car in line behind a combine going 10 mph who then waits to turn left into a field and once he finally moves, the first car in line behind accelerates to a blistering 35 mph and nobody can pass because the exact same damn thing is happening in the lane going in the opposite direction?  It’s a real freaking nightmare on a more regular basis than you can imagine.

[MJLO]

2 hours ago, wingbert said:

You’ve clearly never driven that stretch of road on a regular basis.  What’s the math on that drive if you’re the 12th car in line behind a combine going 10 mph who then waits to turn left into a field and once he finally moves, the first car in line behind accelerates to a blistering 35 mph and nobody can pass because the exact same damn thing is happening in the lane going in the opposite direction?  It’s a real freaking nightmare on a more regular basis than you can imagine.

Agreed.  One vehicle waiting to turn at Podunk or Wabasis can cause a pretty long back up.  I'm glad to see them adding infrastructure.  M-57 has gotten a lot busier.  MDOT traffic maps show it averaging over 20k vehicles a day in some segments. 

[Raildude's dad]

6 hours ago, wingbert said:

You’ve clearly never driven that stretch of road on a regular basis.  What’s the math on that drive if you’re the 12th car in line behind a combine going 10 mph who then waits to turn left into a field and once he finally moves, the first car in line behind accelerates to a blistering 35 mph and nobody can pass because the exact same damn thing is happening in the lane going in the opposite direction?  It’s a real freaking nightmare on a more regular basis than you can imagine.

Drove it quite regularly last summer.  Your example is the exception, not the rule.  Mostly cars and pickups all flowing smoothly.

The MDOT traffic count is about 15,000 a day, the last couple miles west of Greenville get up to 19,000.  East of Greenville, it drops to 6100 a day.  So 60-70 % of the traffic is going to / from  Greenville.  2010, west of Greenville was 12,000 a day, east  6500 a day.  In 2005, 12,000 west of Greenville, 11,000 east of Greenville. 

I was driving it back then when  there were many many semi's going to / from  Electrolux which had up to 3000 employees.  It closed in 2006. That's when bypass lanes were needed, when you put semi's in  the mix.  

[GRDadof3]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:51 AM, Floyd_Z said:

https://www.woodtv.com/news/traffic/traffic-tom-mdot-to-discuss-2021-projects/

Interesting that the Gun Lake tribe is paying for the rebuilding of 131/M179.  It will take two years and will become a SPUI.

I drove M57 a few weeks ago and it was super busy even on a Saturday, the relief lanes are much needed

Agreed. 

[Guest]

I noticed a lot of tree clearing on 196 heading out toward Grandville on the north side.  Is this just routine maintainence or are they going to be doing something there?  I would guess if they had something planned we would probably know about it?

[Guest]

Public meeting to discuss building a new on ramp at the I-96/M-21 interchange

Interesting that they are adding an eastbound on ramp, but not westbound offramp.  I feel like this whole interchange could use a redesign.

[GRDadof3]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:28 AM, Floyd_Z said:

Public meeting to discuss building a new on ramp at the I-96/M-21 interchange

Interesting that they are adding an eastbound on ramp, but not westbound offramp.  I feel like this whole interchange could use a redesign.

There are early plans to do a Westbound offramp but it will apparently be a few years. 

Looks like that was back on the 15th.

I also heard on the radio that the I-196 project(s) is/are 2 months behind schedule. 

[MJLO]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

There are early plans to do a Westbound offramp but it will apparently be a few years. 

Looks like that was back on the 15th.

I also heard on the radio that the I-196 project(s) is/are 2 months behind schedule. 

I am wonderng if they are looking at rebuilding the bridge or the interchange on the EBL  over I-96 soon.   That's the only real reason I could think for them pushing to add an EB entrance ramp at Fulton but not fully complete the interchange.  Though I love playing armchair MDOT strategist I wonder if @Raildude's dadhas any insight?

Edited July 19, 2021 by MJLO

[GRDadof3]

31 minutes ago, MJLO said:

I am wonderng if they are looking at rebuilding the bridge or the interchange on the EBL  over I-96 soon.   That's the only real reason I could think for them pushing to add an EB entrance ramp at Fulton but not fully complete the interchange.  Though I love playing armchair MDOT strategist I wonder if @Raildude's dadhas any insight?

I believe I heard, maybe on here, that I-96 Westbound from 28th to the interchange is going to 3 lanes soon. But not sure if that was going to happen to the eastbound side (it's rarely backed up). Maybe they're incorporating the two projects, of adding a 3rd lane and adding an offramp. 

[Khorasaurus1]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I believe I heard, maybe on here, that I-96 Westbound from 28th to the interchange is going to 3 lanes soon. But not sure if that was going to happen to the eastbound side (it's rarely backed up). Maybe they're incorporating the two projects, of adding a 3rd lane and adding an offramp. 

Why is there such a difference between WB I-96 through that stretch at EB I-96? Westbound backs up at the evening rush hour daily. But there's no corresponding eastbound backup in the morning.  Where is that traffic coming from and going to? And what are they using to go east/south in the morning?

[MJLO]

1 hour ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

Why is there such a difference between WB I-96 through that stretch at EB I-96? Westbound backs up at the evening rush hour daily. But there's no corresponding eastbound backup in the morning.  Where is that traffic coming from and going to? And what are they using to go east/south in the morning?

Really no back ups?  I haven’t driven it in a while but I did commute from Alpine to 28th st from the mid 90s through the early 2010s. EB 96 backed up pretty faithfully every morning  from the 196 merger to 28th st.  Outside of the light traffic volumes related to COVID I’m kind of surprised that it still doesn’t.  Evening traffic has always been worse but that’s pretty universal. 

[Khorasaurus1]

24 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Really no back ups?  I haven’t driven it in a while but I did commute from Alpine to 28th st from the mid 90s through the early 2010s. EB 96 backed up pretty faithfully every morning  from the 196 merger to 28th st.  Outside of the light traffic volumes related to COVID I’m kind of surprised that it still doesn’t.  Evening traffic has always been worse but that’s pretty universal. 

Maybe I just don't see it, because I don't commute that way (but sometimes find myself on 96 in the afternoon).

Maybe I'm the problem. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Khorasaurus1

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

Maybe I just don't see it, because I don't commute that way (but sometimes find myself on 96 in the afternoon).

Maybe I'm the problem. 

I live not far off the I-96/Fulton interchange and I don't know if I've ever seen Eastbound traffic backed up that much. My observations is that on the Westbound side, you have a whole lot of traffic dumping on at 28th, then more dumping on at Cascade Rd, then more dumping on from Fulton, in a big mixing bowl just before a major interchange. Going the other way, you just have people exiting at Cascade, which that offramp has been widened and lengthened quite a bit in the last few years, then you go a couple of miles to 28th.  Granted, I'm never ever going Eastbound in the morning. I'm always headed to downtown or beyond. 

The really bad area going Eastbound is STILL the onramp from the Beltline going Eastbound, which is trying to get on with a very short onramp, mixing with traffic trying to get off on Fulton. I can't believe with all of the "fixes" on I-196 they didn't consider fixing that mess. 

 

 

[54equalsunity]

I believe I heard, maybe on here, that I-96 Westbound from 28th to the interchange is going to 3 lanes soon. But not sure if that was going to happen to the eastbound side (it's rarely backed up). Maybe they're incorporating the two projects, of adding a 3rd lane and adding an offramp. 

I really hope you heard wrong. No way is a third lane going to significantly improve travel times for at most 3 hours a day. That's the last thing we need, anyway.

I do agree with your perception of EB. I don't know that I've ever been in a backup on that side, at any time of day.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[GRDadof3]

17 hours ago, 54equalsunity said:

I really hope you heard wrong. No way is a third lane going to significantly improve travel times for at most 3 hours a day. That's the last thing we need, anyway.

I do agree with your perception of EB. I don't know that I've ever been in a backup on that side, at any time of day.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

This was from Raildude's Dad last year: 
"I was talking to my daughter over the holidays. It's flown under the radar but the 3rd lane on I196 from Maryland to Fuller will be added this coming summer and a 3rd lane on I-96 from 28th St to M-21 will be built also. Finally..."

[MJLO]

19 hours ago, 54equalsunity said:

I really hope you heard wrong. No way is a third lane going to significantly improve travel times for at most 3 hours a day. That's the last thing we need, anyway.

I do agree with your perception of EB. I don't know that I've ever been in a backup on that side, at any time of day.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

There’s this myth that the addition of weave merge lanes are supposed to reduce rush hour traffic.  That’s not what they are for.  Congestion is inevitable.  They improve overall flow.   Anyone that’s driven that stretch of I-96 knows the frustration of being trapped behind someone going under the speed limit, or having to choose to let someone ride their rear end, or speed up to well over the speed limit while passing.  They Improve flow and safety, and yes do accommodate additional volume as well. 
 

Grand Rapids freeway infrastructure is about 3 decades behind its needs.   The small improvements over the last 40 years have not kept pace with the 40 years of growth.

[54equalsunity]

There’s this myth that the addition of weave merge lanes are supposed to reduce rush hour traffic.  That’s not what they are for.  Congestion is inevitable.  They improve overall flow.   Anyone that’s driven that stretch of I-96 knows the frustration of being trapped behind someone going under the speed limit, or having to choose to let someone ride their rear end, or speed up to well over the speed limit while passing.  They Improve flow and safety, and yes do accommodate additional volume as well. 
 
Grand Rapids freeway infrastructure is about 3 decades behind its needs.   The small improvements over the last 40 years have not kept pace with the 40 years of growth.

Traffic is a gas, not a liquid.

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[Raildude's dad]

On 7/22/2021 at 7:49 AM, GRDadof3 said:

This was from Raildude's Dad last year: 
"I was talking to my daughter over the holidays. It's flown under the radar but the 3rd lane on I196 from Maryland to Fuller will be added this coming summer and a 3rd lane on I-96 from 28th St to M-21 will be built also. Finally..."

She says replacing the bridge on the EBL over 96 isn't on the radar. She did look at adding the 3rd lane EB to 28th pre-pandemic but it's been all quiet since.

 

On 7/22/2021 at 10:01 AM, MJLO said:

There’s this myth that the addition of weave merge lanes are supposed to reduce rush hour traffic.  That’s not what they are for.  Congestion is inevitable.  They improve overall flow.   Anyone that’s driven that stretch of I-96 knows the frustration of being trapped behind someone going under the speed limit, or having to choose to let someone ride their rear end, or speed up to well over the speed limit while passing.  They Improve flow and safety, and yes do accommodate additional volume as well. 
 

Grand Rapids freeway infrastructure is about 3 decades behind its needs.   The small improvements over the last 40 years have not kept pace with the 40 years of growth.

MJLO is correct on the weave merge lanes.  Both EB at the EBL and WB at Cascade are log enough to merge at 70 mph. Nope cars dive right into the thru lane at 45-50 slowing everything down.

Yes the freeway infrastructure is behind needs. Population and traffic continues to grow but the gas and weight tax revenue has not kept up with the cost of the infrastructure  needs.  I-96 east of M-6, about 25,000 vehicles / day. The traffic was 2500 / day when it opened in 1957.

[Raildude's dad]

The north half of the OAK site has been sold to the Associated Builders and Contractors for an apprentice and training center. OAK kept the vacant portion of the property  and their offices are still downtown. They will be building a new field operations center out by where else? M-6

Edited July 31, 2021 by Raildude's dad

[GRDadof3]

14 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

The north half of the OAK site has been sold to the Associated Builders and Contractors for an apprentice and training center. OAK kept the vacant portion of the property  and their offices are still downtown. They will be building a new field operations center out by where else? M-6

Is that the long building on Century?