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Millennium Park Development Updates

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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Grand Rapids Press editorial on the Millennium Park location

There ya go gvsusean. They feel the same way you do.

Another thing to consider is do we want a facility right downtown that will only be active 4 months out of the year? I know people might say that on the off-season they could show movies or host smaller shows, but I would imagine it would be expensive to operate that way.

I like the idea of having another destination point downtown to attract more people, but...

Building an amphitheater on the outskirts of town flies in the face of that success.
Since when are we building an amphitheater on the outskirts of town? :unsure::blink:
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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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These types of venues are typically on the urban fringes, away from houses due to noise issues. I think Millennium Park is as close into town as this thing is going to get. For this type of venue, putting it downtown would simply be retarded. Would you waste valueable downtown real estate for lawn seating? Sure, if it's a small to medium sized amphtheater or if it can double as a park like in Chicago's case. Plus the noise issue is far more important for this size of venue. An arena makes sense downtown because it's enclosed. An amphitheater? Not a chance.

All that said, the one area near downtown that might be worth considering would be the 16 acres of city-owned land that the River Grand project is supposed to use. Maybe this could be tied into that development to kill two birds with one stone.

-nb

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Aren't the gravel pits, discussed as a possible location for the zoo expansion, the new home of the Mines Golf Course?

Yeah mp, I think the Press is mixing the two. The land where the Mines is was too unstable to build the new zoo expansion. They even talked about putting a pedestrian bridge over 196 to accomplish this, but it was not safe or feasible due to the gypsum. That's why the Mines doesn't even really have a clubhouse because of the soil conditions. I think their clubhouse is a modular trailer??

They also looked at expanding the zoo into Millennium Park, but it's in the Grand River floodplain. I don't know how the floodplain will affect the amphitheater, but having to evacuate ferocious beasts shouldn't be an issue (depending on who's in concert).

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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Ah-Nab-Awen Park?

Would it be big enough? Seems like it would be pretty tight along there, with the river on the east and the Ford Museum on the West side? Plus being so close to the river with the flood plain, would they have to build up a wall like the east side of the River has now?

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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Despite all the other objections, i'm thinking the west siders may be a bit annoyed by the noise/traffic/etc.

I would think noise wouldn't be too bad because its right next to 131 and the river. Traffic will be bad where ever you put it.

Would it be big enough? Seems like it would be pretty tight along there, with the river on the east and the Ford Museum on the West side? Plus being so close to the river with the flood plain, would they have to build up a wall like the east side of the River has now?

It's probably too small, but who really knows what kind of dimensions you need to have.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Despite all the other objections, i'm thinking the west siders may be a bit annoyed by the noise/traffic/etc.

Plus, a 15,000 amphitheater that handles large national touring acts is massive and utilitarian on pretty much 3 sides. Do we want that bohemoth taking over one of downtown's largest parks? Maybe if they put in on the area just North of the Ford Museum and the park. I'm sure the River House people won't mind. :whistling:

To me, I don't see what the big objection is to putting it in Millennium Park. It could be a beautiful setting. It's still in the city, so tax revenue would go to the city (I would think). What did we determine, about two miles from GVSU??

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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Plus, a 15,000 amphitheater that handles large national touring acts is massive and utilitarian on pretty much 3 sides. Do we want that bohemoth taking over one of downtown's largest parks? Maybe if they put in on the area just North of the Ford Museum and the park. I'm sure the River House people won't mind. :whistling:

To me, I don't see what the big objection is to putting it in Millennium Park. It could be a beautiful setting. It's still in the city, so tax revenue would go to the city (I would think). What did we determine, about two miles from GVSU??

If they would just build a trail transit line between downtown, GVSU, John Ball Zoo, the amphitheatre, and the center (beach) of MP. I think it would bring in enough people back to Downtown before and after any concerts.... but that is just my humble opinion....

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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OK, I'm going to throw everyone for a lurch and contradict myself for a minute. Hopefully no whiplash.

What if the amphitheater were built on the Butterworth Landfill? A lot of fill would have to be trucked in to build up the lawn section, but so what? I've seen parks, ski hills and baseball fields built on landfills in the Detroit area. There's already a clay cap on the landfill anyway.

The actual stage and amphitheater structure could be built on pylons sunk way down through the landfill and into the good soil below. Small ancillery buildings if needed could be attached to the main amphitheater building. It would be a bit closer to downtown, preserve Millenium Park for other uses, and would still have a view of downtown. Cars could access it via Wealthy and 131 (where there are few residential neighbors to distrupt) or shuttle busses from downtown. The area around is heavy industrial. They could even leave a dirt parking lot for people to park, which is not exactly objectionable for amphitheater concert goers.

271486362_7607640df4_o.jpg

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snoogit Town

snoogit

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OK, I'm going to throw everyone for a lurch and contradict myself for a minute. Hopefully no whiplash.

What about the area just east of the orange box? couldn't you build the stage, and services part of the ampitheatre on that, then have the seating be on the dump itself, which shouldn't be much of a problem at all.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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What about the area just east of the orange box? couldn't you build the stage, and services part of the ampitheatre on that, then have the seating be on the dump itself, which shouldn't be much of a problem at all.

Consumers Energy owns some of the parcels East of there, but it certainly could be investigated. Just for size comparison Tampa's new $23 Million amphitheater seats 20,000 and sits on 17 acres:

http://jedunn.com/projects.aspx?pgID=1106&...=23&pid=220

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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I would love the idea of the Ampitheater to be located on the old landfill as long as construction would not disturb the garbage and other nasties below. The way to do that would be to truck in dirt from elsewhere and create a horse shoeshape burm on top of the existing land to seat the audience and than set the stage and other structures ontop of concrete pads and GRdad's pylons.

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snoogit Town

snoogit

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I would love the idea of the Ampitheater to be located on the old landfill as long as construction would not disturb the garbage and other nasties below. The way to do that would be to truck in dirt from elsewhere and create a horse shoeshape burm on top of the existing land to seat the audience and than set the stage and other structures ontop of concrete pads and GRdad's pylons.

what would have been nice would have been to reuse the old concrete from I-96 construction.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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Looking at Pine Knob (Yeah, I refuse to call it by any other name) on Google Maps it looks roughly the same size as the Van Andel Arena in footprint. So the need for acres and acres of land is really just to handle parking and provide a sound buffer. I think no matter how much room you have that buffer isn't going to stop all noise, and most cities require performances to finish by 11 pm.

Back to downtown parking, it would be interesting to see if this could work. What if basically no parking were provided on site and you had to park downtown? Could a light rail system handle the load before and after concerts? Big events aren't that common so I doubt there will be any nights when both the arena and this amphitheater are in use so I would think downtown's parking should be adequate. If we had a rail system I'm sure they could just run a lot more trains/busses between the stops on event nights. And the line could easily be a stop on the way to Jenison or Allendale or both.

-nb

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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Build the Ampitheater accross 196 from the land fill. Then prep the landfill surface for unpaved parking. Lastly tunnel under 196 to connect the landfill the Ampitheater.

Isn't the land across I-196 from the landfill the M.P. site that everyone is haveing the fit about?

I agree that having one closer to downtown would be nice in some respects, but MP is a great spot, that isn't too far from dowtown and already has the terrian needed in most areas, but as you pointed out tamias, if they bore under the freeway, they have a sea of grass parking etc.

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