Downtown Raleigh retail updates

[Jones_]

Updated screens are a great idea.

[Gard]

Local restaurateur Lou Moshakos is purchasing the smalller of the two original Creamery buildings and expects to close on it in December. He is going to be adding an additional story to it, which will from what I understand house a Carolina Ale House along with a rooftop deck for it. The other two floors will house different restaurants, one of which he hinted was an additional location of one he operates already and the other will be a new type of Mediterannean restaurant. This will be a great addition to the Glenwood area! I'm thrilled to see him get involved downtown and bring Carolina Ale House there, which will no doubt be very popular. Adding 2 more restaurants to the building is just icing on the cake:

http://www.newsobserver.com/275/story/1312281.html

[Jones_]

I posted this back on Nov 17th, but have known about it for some time since his interior upfit person lives next door to me. I tried to get her to convince him to go into 222 Glenwood, but he insists on owning his buildings. I guess at Terminal 2 he had to depart from this but I imagine once equity gets built up in a few of his buildings, this can serve him well. A "staple" sort of establishment is a good balance to places like Solas and Sullivans. Affordable eats...affordable everything will have to be the driving force behind any growth downtown going forward and this is a good piece in that puzzle. Despite its chain-appeal, though, as Gard points out, Lou is a local.

[orulz]

I would have liked to see Carolina Ale House go into West, I think they are one of a fewhave enough name recognition to be a draw in spite of the off-Glenwood location. Seeing the retail spaces at West stay empty is kind of depressing.

I bet that Moshakos bought the building AND the plans for the addition from the previous owner. I wouldn't be surprised at all if what ends up getting built looks a lot like the old rendering (which has since disappeared from the architect's website.)

[suburban george3]

Thought I would pose this question here... I have decided to come to Raleigh and enjoy New Year's festivities at the clubs downtown. However, I'm taking Amtrak's Carolinian down and back (I could drive, but hey I'm plan on drinking mass quantities and I usually try to make sure my car is at home in the garage on New Year's.) I'll be arriving close to 9pm and will leave tomorrow just before 5. I'll be staying at the Clarion. I am going to have a few hours on New Year's day for a nice lunch and some downtown browsing. I know it will be a holiday, but does anyone have any suggestions?

Edited December 31, 2008 by suburban george3

[Jones_]

^ suggestions for drinking? For lunch? You eating dinner here tonight? Friends with you?

Downtown will have the big Acorn drop of course...the whole gig is called First Night. I would take out of town friends of mine to Siti for dinner. Drink at Raleigh Times until about 11:30 (they have PBR, and then good beer, but nothing in between like Bud or Miller), then go watch the Acorn. Then go to one or more of Landmark, Alibi or Slims depending on your tastes. Alternatively, you could eat anywhere on Glenwood (Rockford is my favorite but very crowded on a night like this), drink anywhere on Glenwood, then part after 12 at a dance club type place such as Bassment (small), Five Star (Medium), or the Office (large). We also have three Irish pubs (Tir na Nog, Napper Tandys and Hibernian) and a new English Pub (Oxford) for just plain old heavy drinking. All of this is walking distance from the Clarion, which is perfectly in the middle of these two areas. Don't let the quietness around Clarion fool you though....the two main areas (Glenwood/Warehouse and Fayetteville/Moore Square) are each about three blocks from you.

At the end of the night you might want to take a rickshaw back.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Jones133

[suburban george3]

^ suggestions for drinking? For lunch? You eating dinner here tonight? Friends with you?

At the end of the night you might want to take a rickshaw back.

The train arrives at 8:50 (if not delayed), so I might have to grab a quick light dinner.. maybe a sandwich or something like that. Definitely lunch tomorrow.. I am meeting friends down.. I know we are going to Flex for awhile.. I'll see if we can break away for the Acorn drop.

Also, it looks like the Amtrak station is fairly close to downtown/Clarion.. Google maps says .5 mile. Is that pretty accurate?

[Jones_]

The train arrives at 8:50 (if not delayed), so I might have to grab a quick light dinner.. maybe a sandwich or something like that. Definitely lunch tomorrow.. I am meeting friends down.. I know we are going to Flex for awhile.. I'll see if we can break away for the Acorn drop.

Also, it looks like the Amtrak station is fairly close to downtown/Clarion.. Google maps says .5 mile. Is that pretty accurate?

half mile is about right. A couple of streets dead end at the tracks (Harrington and West)and continue on the other side. The most direct route is therefore, to head east on Cabarrus (at the station) and turn left on Dawson (north). You will walk past several condominiums (and have a great view of the shimmer wall), and will have to cross the street at Hargett, because construction has the side walk closed. When you get to Hillsborough take a left (west). Clarion is 15 stories and round (looks like a hair curler). A more scenic walk is to start out heading west on Cabarrus and walk up a nice hill to Boylan Ave. Taking a right on Boylan, you will pass many nice old houses and soon reach Hillsborough Street. A right on Hillsborough gets you to the Clarion in another 3-4 blocks. If you went this way, you could grab a sandwich at Char-Grill (out door only and maybe too cold tonight) at Hillsborough and Boylan. Also, at Boylan and Morgan is Moonlight Pizza(one block before Hillsborough). An awesome plate of spaghetti and meatballs is only 6 bucks (its actually the 1/2 serving but is plenty to eat). Sit at the bar and get in and out in 30-45 mins.

Since you are going to Flex is it ok to assume glbt? If so, I might also recommend the Borough (its on Dawson Street at Morgan) and is good for food and drinks. CC's and Legends (both on Hargett and close to Flex)make for a decent glbt district. Times and Landmark I still recommend but your friends may have other ideas. Enjoy!

[suburban george3]

half mile is about right. A couple of streets dead end at the tracks (Harrington and West)and continue on the other side. The most direct route is therefore, to head east on Cabarrus (at the station) and turn left on Dawson (north). You will walk past several condominiums (and have a great view of the shimmer wall), and will have to cross the street at Hargett, because construction has the side walk closed. When you get to Hillsborough take a left (west). Clarion is 15 stories and round (looks like a hair curler). A more scenic walk is to start out heading west on Cabarrus and walk up a nice hill to Boylan Ave. Taking a right on Boylan, you will pass many nice old houses and soon reach Hillsborough Street. A right on Hillsborough gets you to the Clarion in another 3-4 blocks. If you went this way, you could grab a sandwich at Char-Grill (out door only and maybe too cold tonight) at Hillsborough and Boylan. Also, at Boylan and Morgan is Moonlight Pizza(one block before Hillsborough). An awesome plate of spaghetti and meatballs is only 6 bucks (its actually the 1/2 serving but is plenty to eat). Sit at the bar and get in and out in 30-45 mins.

Since you are going to Flex is it ok to assume glbt? If so, I might also recommend the Borough (its on Dawson Street at Morgan) and is good for food and drinks. CC's and Legends (both on Hargett and close to Flex)make for a decent glbt district. Times and Landmark I still recommend but your friends may have other ideas. Enjoy!

Thanks for the advice Jones133! I am looking forward to the trip, even though it is short.. plus trying it without the car! (I mean $29 bucks round trip and I can breath easy that my car is at home in the garage while all the drunks are playing bumper cars tonight!) I play stuff by ear a lot, so these are some great suggestions!

Edited December 31, 2008 by suburban george3

[suburban george3]

Thanks for the suggestions! I had a great trip, but was kind of surprised at the number of downtown eateries closed on New Years. Ended up having lunch at The Pit. Good BBQ.

Man, u guys need a bigger train station too!! lol

Jones, tried Moonlight Pizza today while in Raleigh with work. The spaghetti was yummy indeed!

[Jones_]

Thanks for the feedback. The Pit is pretty good too. Funny, we just had an article or two about how small our train station is, and some discussion elsewhere on UP I think. The folks on the Triangle portion of UP area always full of great eating ideas and love to share, so feel free to fish for ideas again in the future. FYI, my last trip to Winston-Salem, I ate at the Mellow Mushroom...4th and something I think.....its better than our Mellow IMO!

[suburban george3]

I hope to do a weekend trip to downtown Raleigh in the spring when the weather's a tad nicer. One thing about your downtown, it's very deceiving.. it appears smaller (especially when viewed from I-40/440) but it's larger than expected and very walkable.

[ncwebguy]

Jibarra is now open for lunch (M-F 11:30-2:30) and Sunday Brunch (11 - 2:30). From their website, it looks like they will open for dinner once they get their liquor permits. Also it sounds like they are excited about the new digs:

We can't wait to see everyone here to share it with you. The Historic Depot building has been a joy to work on--it simply provides a ton of character and a unique energy. We really hope you enjoy the new atmosphere.

Another good dining option near the Convention Center, and will hopefully compliment Humble Pie and The Pit. We took out of town guests to The Pit over the holidays and they liked it a lot. They got rid of the highbrow/lowbrow side selection and kept the best of both worlds.

[Jones_]

West Davie Street is the only compact concentration of stuff in the warehouse district (even Hargett feels more spread out). I have always tried to dream up a way for the area to both improve itself and also to market itself somehow. Is it Southend(?) in Charlotte (where the trolly goes) that sets a good example of a downtown neighborhood with its own commercial identity tied to a warehouse feel. Shockoe Bottom in Richmond is a bigger version still.

Maybe faux gas lamps and strategicly placed industrial style art, plus some not-over-done cleaning up of the sidewalks and weeds around the street signs. It would be great if the retail was concentrated better too...Stuff, William Cozart, that green building, 311 Flanders all visible from the same street corner would have been great, but organic growth is what it is which is also perfectly fine. Just musing here...

[DPK]

Maybe faux gas lamps

I really like that idea.

[cityboi]

latest news is that Natty Greene's will be expanding outside of Greensboro with its Greensboro themed restaurant and microbrewery pub. A new restaurant will be built in Raleigh in the Glenwood area of downtown Raleigh not too far from the state capitol. and will look (the interior) almost like the one in downtown Greensboro. For those of you that live in Raleigh, this will be a very popular restaurant. Its one of the hottest spots in downtown Greensboro. The restaurant was named after General Nathanial Greene, the name sake of Greensboro. The Raleigh restaurant will be built at Powerhouse Square at the site formerly occupied by "Southend Brewery" and "Prime Only" owners of Natty Greene's are also looking into opening up a restaurant in uptown Charlotte as well. The one in Greensboro is pretty cool. Its in a 3-story building that was built in the 1800s. The first two floors have restaurant seating. The third floor has a rental loft that has pool tables wide screen tvs and satelite radio. All three floors have their own bar area.

Natty Greenes will be in this building, the former "Prime Only" restaurant on West Jones St in downtown Raleigh

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/22/natt...erhouse-square/

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...3.html?ana=e_ph

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/01...ding_to_raleigh

Also Natty Greene's webite

http://bigdraft.com/index2.html

Here is what you can expect to see in downtown Raleigh

Edited January 23, 2009 by cityboi

[ChiefJoJo]

^ That's awesome! Not only do we fill that oft-vacant space, but it's another brewpub, which IMO, we need more of downtown. I am assuming they will brew beer there BTW. In any case, I've been to Natty Greene's on Elm St and it's a great spot, so if they can do something similar here in Raleigh, I'm all for it.

[cityboi]

I am assuming they will brew beer there BTW

I believe so. The food prices will be a little more reasonable than when Southend Brewery was there. Natty Greene's is a very casual and laid back kinda place.

[DanRNC]

Natty Greene's beer is pretty good-it has been a national award-winning brewery. This should be a nice addition to DT Raleigh.

[Jones_]

I too have been in the Natty Greenes on Elm. Great spot. I love old buildings...my only concern is what the Raleigh building does not have that the one in does...an inviting first floor facade. The fates of Southend Brewery and Prime Only had as much to do with the siting of the building and its functional setup as anything else. Even the outdoor part of the Raleigh building feels detached from the inside, where as in Greensboro it all feels like one nice functional space. Evidence of my concern is that Southend Brewery (Charleston and Charlotte....funny, the website still shows the Raleigh lcoation too) does just fine in its other locations.

[cityboi]

The only thing I hate is when people sit in the restaurant and talk for an hour or so at the table after they finish eating. mean while people who walk in are waiting for a table while these rude people just sit and talk. One night I waited an hour an 20 minutes for a table with a couple of friends. Most every one was finished eating but no one got up because they were just sitting there talking. Thats one draw back to being a very popular restaurant. Of course this was on a saturday night.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/01..._to_more_cities

Edited January 24, 2009 by cityboi

[RaleighRob]

Natty Greene's sounds like a great fit.

The reasonable price range will be perfect. I've been in Glenwood South plenty of times (especially weeknights) where Hard Times, Armadillo, and Rockford were packed but the "fancy" places sat almost empty. If you want a busy restaurant 7 days a week, those lower prices will do it.

As for the facade, that could be a concern but I think with good signage and advertising they can overcome that easily.

[ChiefJoJo]

Natty Greene's sounds like a great fit.

The reasonable price range will be perfect. I've been in Glenwood South plenty of times (especially weeknights) where Hard Times, Armadillo, and Rockford were packed but the "fancy" places sat almost empty. If you want a busy restaurant 7 days a week, those lower prices will do it.

As for the facade, that could be a concern but I think with good signage and advertising they can overcome that easily.

Yes. This is a huge space and that was the problem for Prime Only. There's no way--esp. in this economy--that you can compete with Sullivans, etc, and fill all those tables with enough people night after night who are willing to pay for a $25-30 steak. Southend had something going for a number of years before they failed... which I think had more to do with quality of their offerings rather than the brewpub setup (Greenshields too). If Natty Greene's brews good beer, and keeps the menu affordable and simple, I think it will be a big hit. I think the market for real brewpubs with good beer is underserved in Raleigh and especially downtown.

I predict Natty Greenes will be a big success.

[JeffC]

Good luck to the new venture...we really need a strong presence in this space, which Its Prime Only clearly was not. In retrospect, it seems whoever at Powerhouse ventures signed the Its Prime Only lease took temporary leave of their senses...who could possibly have thought that a generic undercapitalized chain steak place could compete with Sullivans just a block away with a better location? Brewpub seems a much better choice, and though it's true two other brewpubs have disappeared, Greenshields leaving downtown was due to the owner's own temporary moment of insanity, thinking he would do better in Cary than downtown (he lasted about six months IIRC in Cary after closing Greenshields downtown).

[Jones_]

Perhaps beer critics among us should get together and put Natty's on Jones to the test when they open up? That's the only real way for us all to know. This test should either be preceded or closely followed by a similar test at Boylan Bridge Brewpub. Keep an eye on the meetup thread.....