Downtown Raleigh's Future

[SydneyCarton]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:26 PM, kermit said:

Quote from the current Hurricanes owner on the teams future location preferences:

I grew up in Durham and am a huge hockey fan, but I have never been to see a game in PNC. I like to get some drinks before or after the game which is easy to do around most NHL areas, but not at PNC. Move downtown and I'll come from Charlotte to see 5-10 games per year.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2020/05/29/canes-could-leave-raleigh-heres-how.html

Canes games are great.  I have season tickets.  A new downtown stadium would be fantastic  for Raleigh, but it would be a headache for families.   Parking in that huge lot makes life very easy when you have a minivan full of kids.

Edited September 17, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[SydneyCarton]

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2020/09/17/downtown-raleigh-poised-for-resurgence.html

[KJHburg]

Sounds like Pinnacle Bank wants a very visible downtown Raleigh office of multiple floors and I wish they would jump start one of the many proposed highrises maybe like 121 Fayetteville or one of the Kane or Highwoods towers proposed.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2020/11/12/pinnacle-plans-presence-in-downtown-raleigh.html

""“I can’t speak to the specifics of it, but yes, we’ve identified a site in the downtown corridor,” he said, noting that if all goes as planned with negotiations, it will be a “multistory,” full-service branch and office complex with visible signage. The new footprint will complement the bank’s existing regional hub on Glenwood Avenue.""

 

[RALNATIVE]

6 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Sounds like Pinnacle Bank wants a very visible downtown Raleigh office of multiple floors and I wish they would jump start one of the many proposed highrises maybe like 121 Fayetteville or one of the Kane or Highwoods towers proposed.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2020/11/12/pinnacle-plans-presence-in-downtown-raleigh.html

""“I can’t speak to the specifics of it, but yes, we’ve identified a site in the downtown corridor,” he said, noting that if all goes as planned with negotiations, it will be a “multistory,” full-service branch and office complex with visible signage. The new footprint will complement the bank’s existing regional hub on Glenwood Avenue.""

 

If I were a betting man, i'd put my money on 121 Fayetteville. That's in the heart of banking territory.

[SydneyCarton]

121 is the nicest proposal IMO so I hope that it gets built soon.

[RALNATIVE]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

121 is the nicest proposal IMO so I hope that it gets built soon.

We haven't seen renderings of most of the other proposals so I'll hold my judgement on what's the nicest proposal.

[SydneyCarton]

2 hours ago, RALNATIVE said:

We haven't seen renderings of most of the other proposals so I'll hold my judgement on what's the nicest proposal.

It's the nicest of what I've seen renderings for.

[dmccall]

The site plan for the lot behind Marbles Museum at 220 E. Morgan St. has been upgraded to request for zoning change allowing up to ... you guessed it ... 40 stories.

What is that, the 5th or 6th proposal for 40-stories? I completely agree with whomever posted here their theory that some company is wanting a 40-story HQ in Raleigh and developers are all quietly racing to propose plans to the company. In other words, it is a bit dubious that more than one of these will get built.

Edited February 9, 2021 by dmccall

[RALNATIVE]

2 hours ago, dmccall said:

The site plan for the lot behind Marbles Museum at 220 E. Morgan St. has been upgraded to request for zoning change allowing up to ... you guessed it ... 40 stories.

What is that, the 5th or 6th proposal for 40-stories? I completely agree with whomever posted here their theory that some company is wanting a 40-story HQ in Raleigh and developers are all quietly racing to propose plans to the company. In other words, it is a bit dubious that more than one of these will get built.

Even if we only get one 40 story tower that will be a win for the Raleigh downtown skyline. With all of those proposals out there I say that we get at least 2 of them. The Union Sq tower seems like a very likely possibility.

I think that I was the one speculating about a major company looking to relocate it's HQ to downtown Raleigh, which would explain this rush to rezone in several areas. Now that Highwoods is in this game, i'd say it lends more feasibility to that theory.

[KJHburg]

Remember the zoning is up to 40 but the developer wanted more than 20 so I would say the buildings could be in the 30 floor range and maybe someone like a Kane would push to 40 just to get the max out of the zoning. 

[paytonc]

On 2/9/2021 at 5:55 PM, dmccall said:

theory that some company is wanting a 40-story HQ in Raleigh and developers are all quietly racing to propose plans to the company

Nah, end-user businesses almost never shop for building height; they shop for square footage. Spec developers care about height.

The more reasonable reading: Raleigh's zoning's high-rise height categories are 12, 20, and 40 stories. Over-building is illegal, under-building is perfectly fine, and there's no benefit to ask for 20 instead of 40. So why not ask for 40?

[RALNATIVE]

14 hours ago, paytonc said:

Nah, end-user businesses almost never shop for building height; they shop for square footage. Spec developers care about height.

The more reasonable reading: Raleigh's zoning's high-rise height categories are 12, 20, and 40 stories. Over-building is illegal, under-building is perfectly fine, and there's no benefit to ask for 20 instead of 40. So why not ask for 40?

I don't agree with that. There are many corporations worldwide that have intentionally sought highrise developments to showcase their brands with impressive skyscrapers. It's a form of branding and it works.  Remember the Sears tower in Chicago? They had the option for a sprawling campus in a more suburban area but chose the mega highrise in downtown Chicago to dominate the skyline and reinforce in the minds of many that they were (at the time) the powerhouse in the retail industry.

Also in the case  of Bank of America and the former First Union in Charlotte it was part of a rivalry.

Edited February 13, 2021 by RALNATIVE

[KJHburg]

The one company  that could do a 40 story statement tower in Raleigh is locally based First Citizens they are the 20th largest bank in the country and their headquarters looks like from the 1970s.  I said it before they should be an anchor tenant of a high rise with their name emblazoned on the top.  

Edited February 14, 2021 by KJHburg

[SydneyCarton]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:57 PM, KJHburg said:

The one company  that could do a 40 story statement tower in Raleigh is locally based First Citizens they are the 20th largest bank in the country and their headquarters looks like from the 1970s.  I said it before they should be an anchor tenant of a high rise with their name emblazoned on the top.  

It would be nice if that happens.

[Jones_]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:06 PM, RALNATIVE said:

I don't agree with that. There are many corporations worldwide that have intentionally sought highrise developments to showcase their brands with impressive skyscrapers. It's a form of branding and it works.  Remember the Sears tower in Chicago? They had the option for a sprawling campus in a more suburban area but chose the mega highrise in downtown Chicago to dominate the skyline and reinforce in the minds of many that they were (at the time) the powerhouse in the retail industry.

Also in the case  of Bank of America and the former First Union in Charlotte it was part of a rivalry.

I'm basing this on nothing but feel like both of those previous typical choices (bold downtown skyscraper vs suburban campus) are being nudged out by something that more closely resembles 'urban campus'. Things like American Tobacco, and Smokey Hollow where an employer (I realize Smoky Hollow dosn't have an anchor employer)surrounds themselves with a live/work community with plenty of retail and at least some residential are where the momentum really is. Even RTP is trying to rebrand and rebuild with that in mind though its not really achievable there. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Jones_

[RALNATIVE]

11 hours ago, Jones_ said:

I'm basing this on nothing but feel like both of those previous typical choices (bold downtown skyscraper vs suburban campus) are being nudged out by something that more closely resembles 'urban campus'. Things like American Tobacco, and Smokey Hollow where an employer (I realize Smoky Hollow dosn't have an anchor employer)surrounds themselves with a live/work community with plenty of retail and at least some residential are where the momentum really is. Even RTP is trying to rebrand and rebuild with that in mind though its not really achievable there. 

I really think it depends on the industry and type of business. Citrix, being a traditional tech company chose the urban campus concept, whereas Pendo being an up and coming tech company chose a skyscraper of sorts.

If you look at big banks, most of them are still choosing downtown skyscrapers (i.e. FNB tower).

[Rufus]

On 2/16/2021 at 5:22 PM, SydneyCarton said:

It would be nice if that happens.

I would happily eat crow to see them return, but they left downtown and are making a mint being up in North Hills. I'm not sure they would ever want to be back in DTR. Then again, I will happily eat crow if it happens. 

[paytonc]

In a "shareholder value" era, most corporations do not go for glitzy in that 1970s and 1980s way. (Charlotte's  race to be tallest was won in 1987.) Note that most of the tallest new North American buildings of recent years have been trophy residential, not corporate HQs.

Even Sears Tower undercuts your point; it was actually exemplifying the company's cheapness. They took the wide lower floors for themselves, and financed the building by renting the narrow top floors to higher-paying tenants. And, of course, they later moved to a sprawling third-ring suburb.

BTW, returned here b/c Raleigh planning is inviting comment on a text change (TC-19-19) that would add a 30 floor height category to the zoning code.

[DPK]

23 hours ago, RALNATIVE said:

I really think it depends on the industry and type of business. Citrix, being a traditional tech company chose the urban campus concept, whereas Pendo being an up and coming tech company chose a skyscraper of sorts.

If you look at big banks, most of them are still choosing downtown skyscrapers (i.e. FNB tower).

It's important to note though that Pendo has seen explosive growth.  Just a few years ago they had a location in a more traditional building over by the Warehouse District.

[RALNATIVE]

49 minutes ago, DPK said:

It's important to note though that Pendo has seen explosive growth.  Just a few years ago they had a location in a more traditional building over by the Warehouse District.

Let's hope that more local companies follow Pendo's lead.

[DPK]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:00 AM, RALNATIVE said:

Let's hope that more local companies follow Pendo's lead.

Agreed, would love to see companies embrace downtown more and go vertical as they explode in growth.

[rancenc]

Announcements such as this will allow downtown Raleigh to grow and prosper!

https://www.businessweekly.co.uk/news/biomedtech/cambridge-design-partnership-hiring-fast-new-north-carolina-base

[KJHburg]

1st Quarter 2021 Downtown Raleigh Alliance report shows continued growth and is a nice recap of downtown Raleigh growth.

Reports, Publications, and Plans | Downtown Raleigh, NC   download it here

[carolina1792]

12 story  Home 2 & True Hotel on Wilmington Street next to the McDonald's is moving forward with permitting after being delayed. 

9 Story Nash Square Hotel (branded Springhill Suites) moving forward as well. Permit portal shows permit activity as recent as 5/5/2021. 

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, carolina1792 said:

12 story  Home 2 & True Hotel on Wilmington Street next to the McDonald's is moving forward with permitting after being delayed. 

9 Story Nash Square Hotel (branded Springhill Suites) moving forward as well. Permit portal shows permit activity as recent as 5/5/2021. 

Springhill Suites? Couldn't have tried harder for a higher end brand for that prime location?

Just like Raleigh to accept whatever comes along first.

Edited May 22, 2021 by RALNATIVE