Charlotte Pride

[dubone]

Don't forget that the 'Southern Baptists' started because they were in support of slavery. The Baptists are a democratic church, with each congregation making all the rules and decisions rather than being organized from above with some super-regional group. Presbyterians are run by 'elders', Episcopals and Catholics are run by bishops, etc., but Baptists vote on everything from the congregations. That is how you have Baptist churches being some of the FIRST to marry gays, have women pastors, or whatever. It all depends on the beliefs of that specific congregation. The beliefs, however, of Baptists in the South, have been fairly conservative overall, so when these churches bind together to form conventions, they tend to be quite conservative. The churches organized differently can still be conservative, but they tend to develop their beliefs within the more educated leadership ranks, rather than just the sum total of beliefs of every church member, who might not have studied an issue.

It might take only a generation to convince Episcopal bishops that the Bible is really speaking of the sin of pedophilia (common in ancient Rome and Greece) and not homosexuality overall. But it is going to have to be church by church to change the 'mind' of the Baptist Church. So in the mean time, you will see individual Baptist churches being changed on the subject, but most others remaining conservative on the subject.

As mean as they might be to gays, it is not nearly as mean as they were in the pro-slavery days when they got their start. But a century and a half later, there are no pro-slave congregations, so give them some time on this issue. As it is a democratic structure, all you have to do is change the minds of the people.

[appatone]

Sardis Baptist in Charlotte has joined Park Road, St.John's and Myers Park Baptist in leaving the state convention over their rule prohibiting acceptance of homosexual congregants. Good for them.

Don't forget also that these churches are the ones who are just now breaking with the SBC. Other affirming Baptists churches may have broken off a long time ago and aren't in the news. A lot of churches split with the SBC years ago for various reasons so when it came to accepting gays I guess they never had to clear it with the ole' SBC as they were already long gone. Just because a church is Baptist and in the South doesn't mean it's Southern Baptist therefore never needing to break away at all for there particular beliefs.

[voyager12]

Returning to the genesis of this thread... which has evolved nicely into a running commentary on things gay in Charlotte Pride has been set for August 25th in the Atrium at Gateway Village. Last year's event was quite successful and I think the upcoming one will be as well. I still think it should be welcome in public Marshall Park but that's a whole other post (and I self pledged to rant less on here... ) involving city politics and the protestors. At least like last year with Gateway being private property we can prevent OSA harassment while giving them their free speech rights to stand on the sidewalk. I agree with Dubone that social change especially in the religious context takes time. Set aside the gay marriage fight which is eternally polarizing because of the theological attachment people have towards "marriage" and majorities in this country favor legal recognition of same-sex couples. And these polls have included "red" state middle America, not only the "blue' coastal enclaves. I myself have wavered between believing that the gay rights movement has to push for marriage and nothing less and then thinking that cu's accomplish the same goal without the backlash. I became conflicted once again after reading documented cases of gay couples in NJ trying to enforce their cu rights to visit sick partners in the hospital and being denied because they were not "married". Words do mean a lot in this society and they carry weight. Being Civil Unioned does not bring the same clout and I am afraid of a separate and not equal problem with this arrangement. Although I have only been a resident of Charmeck for two years much progress has been made on the local level in the past decade. I am annoyed that there was gay-baiting in the last county commission race but have been told that it paled in comparison to the vitriolic anti-gay campaigns in Mecklenburg in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. In the end the fair minded candidates who publicly acknowledged local gay support were elected in the majority and that result shows great progress in and of itself. There is good reason to be optimistic about our future on the local and national scene.

Edited May 1, 2007 by voyager12

[mallguy]

Thank you for the invitation I am Jewish. Although a very lapsed Jew at that, spiritually I am all over the place. Beth EL at Shalom Park on Providence is a very progressive gay supportive Reform Temple with a gay social group but I just don't feel any connection or motivation to go there.

When I said "all are welcome" that means "all are welcome"- so if for any reason you decide you want to visit a church of any of those denominations, you are welcome, even if you aren't Christian. No problem with that.

[voyager12]

I read yesterday that 10 out of the 16 schools in the UNC system have regulations barring discrimination against sexual orientation. UNC Charlotte is among them. None of the schools protect against gender identity. Ideally every school would have such rules but for a deep south state such as North Carolina 10 out of 16 is definitely commendable and a move in the right direction. I wonder how active the GSA is at UNC Charlotte? I often wish I was more active when I was at The College of Charleston. There is a Safespace program at my alma mater which involves faculty and staff who volunteer to be confidantes to gay students. They place stickers on their office doors to signal an accepting place for gay students to be open about their thoughts. I would reccomend it to all diverse schools.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I read yesterday that 10 out of the 16 schools in the UNC system have regulations barring discrimination against sexual orientation. UNC Charlotte is among them. None of the schools protect against gender identity. Ideally every school would have such rules but for a deep south state such as North Carolina 10 out of 16 is definitely commendable and a move in the right direction. I wonder how active the GSA is at UNC Charlotte? I often wish I was more active when I was at The College of Charleston. There is a Safespace program at my alma mater which involves faculty and staff who volunteer to be confidantes to gay students. They place stickers on their office doors to signal an accepting place for gay students to be open about their thoughts. I would reccomend it to all diverse schools.

Since when did North Carolina become a Deep South state?

[Miesian Corners]

Unless you're in Rowe Arts, McEniry, or Storr's (all names of campus buildings), UNCC is probably the most conservative of all UNC system campuses.

[voyager12]

Since when did North Carolina become a Deep South state?

Perhaps, I overstated... I know typically Alabama, MS, LA, etc are considered "deep south". However, the more rural sections of NC are certainly comparable to these more conservative Southern states.

Edited May 7, 2007 by voyager12

[Zeitgeist]

I wonder how active the GSA is at UNC Charlotte? I often wish I was more active when I was at The College of Charleston. There is a Safespace program at my alma mater which involves faculty and staff who volunteer to be confidantes to gay students. They place stickers on their office doors to signal an accepting place for gay students to be open about their thoughts. I would reccomend it to all diverse schools.

The student org in the early/mid-90s was pretty active. It sponsored a Safe Zone program back then that was well received in student affairs and a number of academic areas.

I have no clue what's going on there nowadays.

[voyager12]

I attended HRC and Equality NC's "Take Action" session at the Community Center last night. County Chair Jennifer Roberts was there and discussed extending employment protections to City employees the same way the Commission voted to give County employees non-discrimination protections a few years ago. Roberts alluded to a couple of Council members that may be receptive to this proposal but nowhere near a majority and McCrory has veto power and would absolutely use it to stomp the proposal out if protections or domestic partner benefits were proposed. As McCrory seems to be cruising to reelection, we have our work cut out for us on this front. Jennifer Roberts also spoke of her desire to work with the School Board to include gay protections in their employee regulations. I have heard of stories of gay teachers being forced to quit because of the harassment: the high school Gay-Straight Alliance that has an advisor who is gay but can't even come out of the closet to the gay kids for fear of losing a job, closeted gay teachers being blackmailed by students, it get's worse. The end result of Robert's comments were that while these are important issues the "time is not right" to push them. I know politics is all about timing and strategery and Jennifer Robert's is the best ally gay people have in local Charmeck government. However, we live in North Carolina not California and there is always going to be vocal opposition to anything gay related. The bare majority on Meck CC that passed sexual orientation were all publicly denounced and proclaimed hellbound, it's not going to be any easier this on this go around. The time is never going to be "right" and it gets tiring being told to wait over and over and over again.

[voyager12]

I read an interesting profile in Time recently that described the transformation that Dallas has gone through to become one of the more gay friendly cities in the country. Dallas currently has a lesbian police chief, a gay chair of the county commission and an openly gay candidate running for Mayor. A very impressive feat in a bright red state . Dallas has a relatively conservative reputation as a business center similar to Charlotte and this progression was incremental but accomplished through dedicated activism by the Dallas gay community and support from business and civic leaders. I really think Charlotte could head in a similar direction but we are confronted by a sizable degree of apathy by some in the gay community here and not a lot of political support aside from County Chair Jennifer Roberts. The Visitor and Convention Bureau of Dallas proudly touts it's outreach to the affluent gay travel market and has seen great results. The Charlotte CVB went on a "learning" trip to Philadelphia and when that city included their gay outreach spot in a presentation to the head of our bureau he got embarassed and said Charlotte was not "ready" and we have to do "Nascar first". So it's quite an uphill climb. Wachovia and BOA are in line with most of corporate America through non-discrimination policies but they are not going to be public advocates without partnerships from important players such as The Charlotte Chamber of Commerce. The President addressed the gay Charlotte Business Guild last year and told us, in so many words that the Chamber has a "Don't ask Don't Tell Policy" instead of visible outreach to the gay business community. He also acknowledged that he came to the job from Gaston County so I suppose Mecklenburg might as well be San Francisco by comparison. I think the only way for Charlotte to become more open minded and welcoming like Dallas is to elect and support progressive leaders from the Mayor's Office to County Commission to The Chamber. A tall order for the Bible Belt but if Dallas can do it we can

Edited May 31, 2007 by voyager12

[Raintree21]

^ I've noticed quite a few openly gay and lesbian people in public service here in Charlotte. Police, Fire, and Medic is who I speak of when I say public service.

[voyager12]

^ I've noticed quite a few openly gay and lesbian people in public service here in Charlotte. Police, Fire, and Medic is who I speak of when I say public service.

I am glad to hear it! As far as I know there have never been any openly gay candidates that have ran for office in our region. I hear rumblings and rumors now and then but nothing has materialized as of yet. The only county where there might be a chance of success would be Mecklenburg, I think it would be 50/50 but even a loss would help increase visibility.

[Charlotteman]

Honestly, I have yet to eat in a "Gay" restaurant where the food was actually good and reasonably priced.

Now that I think of it, neither have I. I've been to several Atlanta and Seattle "gay restaurants". None of them served what I would call good food. In all of them I've been to, the food was no better than a $3.29 Marie Callander frozen dinner.....

Edited June 4, 2007 by Charlotteman

[TLT]

I am glad to hear it! As far as I know there have never been any openly gay candidates that have ran for office in our region. I hear rumblings and rumors now and then but nothing has materialized as of yet. The only county where there might be a chance of success would be Mecklenburg, I think it would be 50/50 but even a loss would help increase visibility.

All you need is someone with a good platform that effects everyone and has a personality that people like. We did it here in Wilmington/New Hanover county. Our state Senator is an openly gay woman. Julie Boseman was elected to replace Patrick Ballentine who ran for governor last time around. His hand picked conservative replacement ran behind her in the polls, and as a desperate last minute attempt made her sexuality an issue. The republican party released flyers and commercials about her being a lesbian and the results were he fail father behind in the polls shortly there after! If you have a candidate that people like they forget about the rest. In 2006 Julie Boseman was reelected to the state senate. This time many of the local elected democrats did not support her still afraid of the repercussions of backing a lesbian, IMO. She has made a difference here. Passed a lot of bills of local interest and state interest that have popular appeal. She has a partner in life and a child. She does not hide either of them. When she was reelected people voted for her because of what she is doing not her sexuality. FYI, New Hanover County registered voters are almost evenly split, 38% democrat, 38% republican, 22 % unaffiliated and 2% whatever is left.

[voyager12]

I went to a couple of events featuring Boseman and thought she was rather impressive. Politics is all about personality and it's true that in some cases voters with views that don't totally match a candidate's still vote for them because they came across as authentic and reasonable. It is important to note that New Hanover is a mostly rural Republican county and they still reelected her. Generally speaking there would be a better chance electing a local gay official in Mecklenburg since it's urban and majority Democratic. However, it's alway tough to generalize in politics especially in NC and other Southern states where many Democrats are Republican in all but party label when it comes to cultural issues.

Edited June 6, 2007 by voyager12

[Charlotteman]

Sardis Baptist in Charlotte has joined Park Road, St.John's and Myers Park Baptist in leaving the state convention over their rule prohibiting acceptance of homosexual congregants. Good for them. It was refreshing to me personally to see a report that shows a mainstream Christian denomination showing love towards all their members, as opposed to the usual railing against gays that accompany so many news reports discussing Christianity and homosexuality these days. Four churches out of the dozens and dozens of Baptist churches in our region is not a big number but it's definitely progress. I thought the earlier three were the only ones that were going to break with the convention. Demographically I was surprised by Sardis Baptist's actions as they draw from a suburban area that is majority Republican and conservative. I suppose my partisan stereotypes don't apply sometimes

This is great news that Sardis Baptist has joined a few other Charlotte congregations who have decided that being a Baptist doesn't have to include hating gay people.

Seattle also has several Baptist congregations who have left the repressive, homophobic national organizations. Capitol Hill Baptist goes out of it's way to welcome gays and other diverse peoples. When I walk by the church (a gorgeous brick 1920s neo gothic) I'm always a little delighted by the "all wecome" sign outfront.

[LJinPA]

One thing that could be a challenge to Charlotte imo is that it's city limits keep expanding and include suburbs. The square miles of the city are large enough to be a county. I would think if the city limits included Downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods, it would be a lot easier.

One thing I think helps cities like Dallas overcome their conservative roots is the rapid growth... As these cities grow it would seem logical that many conservative families would migrate toward the suburban counties. Also as the cities grow and garner more national attention, more "urban" type folk would gravitate there as well as minorities... Perhaps in time Mecklenburg will have a higher percentage of minorities while the conservative families would migrate more toward the suburban counties making them to Charlotte what Cobb County was to Atlanta. Kind of a self-selecting effect...

PS I'm not implying that the minority voters are more or less tolerant on gay issues, but it may help to tip the scales more democrat.

If NC's ballot access laws were easier I wonder how a libertarian or independant type or one who's pro-business, fiscally conservative, but socially moderate and gay tolerant type would do there...In other words if Charlotte can't become like Boston or SanFran or Seattle (liberal/pc) it could evolve in a more Dallas, Houston, Phoenix-like direction?

Maybe too if more of the newcomers registered to vote and minority/young people voter turnout increased it could also help...I do have to hand it to the religious right on one thing...they do vote.

As for gay tolerant churches I noticed Charlotte has about 2 Catholic Churches listed... I've never been to Charlotte on a Sunday to attend any of their several Catholic Churches but I have gone to Mass in many different parishes, in many of the states I've been to, and in Italy and have never been turned away or seen any bouncer at the entrance with a velvet rope asking me if I'm gay. While the Vatican officially condemns gay marriage, gay sex and any other sex outside of marriage it doesn't bar gay people from being Catholic or attending Mass. Not that there arent individual Catholics or Clergy that are homophobic but they can't really turn you away. In that case you could then list all the Catholic Parishes in Mecklenburg (I think there are at least 10 or so) as at least.......gay tolerant.

Edited June 6, 2007 by LJinPA

[monsoon]

^Charlotte is not like suburban Dallas or Atlanta and as a religion, I don't consider the Catholics to be any better than the Southern Baptists when it comes to their attitudes on Gays & Lesbians. Even the most conservative church won't turn you away for being Gay, but it's how they might treat you once you enter the door. I question why any Gay and Lesbian would join an organization where the official policy is that something is wrong about being Gay and would at best attempt to change the party to something more acceptable.

[LJinPA]

^Charlotte is not like suburban Dallas or Atlanta and as a religion, I don't consider the Catholics to be any better than the Southern Baptists when it comes to their attitudes on Gays & Lesbians. Even the most conservative church won't turn you away for being Gay, but it's how they might treat you once you enter the door. I question why any Gay and Lesbian would join an organization where the official policy is that something is wrong about being Gay and would at best attempt to change the party to something more acceptable.

I wasn't implying that Charlotte is like suburban Atlanta or Dallas, but more that as Charlotte grows bigger it may have a suburban county or 2 that may become to Charlotte what Cobb county is to Atlanta or what Orange County was to L.A. many years ago. I'm not saying all this WILL happen that way exactly, but just identifying a pattern.

I wasn't trying to speak for Baptists and wasn't trying to say Catholics are better. There is plenty of reliable sites online that explain where both denominations stand. On a personal level I've known mostly Catholics growing up and very few if any evangelicals. I can say that "love the sinner hate the sin" is a long standing tradition in Catholicism... Most Catholics I'm around today are on the lukewarm side but I know a few of the ultra-conservative, Alan Keyes type Catholics who if you asked their position would say that homosexual acts are intrinsically evil, a mortal sin... But if your gay and they know you personally and you don't make a big thing of it or confront the issue, they can politely "look the other way". Not that they'll give you ther blessings for your gay wedding, but sometimes there is a tacit tolerance, or a closet tolerance even among some "religious conservative". I've known of hard core older "church ladies" who still may love their "gay" hair stylist and think he's a trip. These paradoxes can make like more interesting.

Does anyone ever have these experiences with religious conservative types down there? Anti-gay in theory yet unspokenly tolerant on a personal level?

[monsoon]

Religion is often used to justify bigotry against Gays as it is easy to yank out the Christian Bible and justify almost anything. I have not noticed that any particular sect of Christianity has a monopoly on this situation. The official position of the Catholic and all mainline Protestant religions expect for possibly the Anglican Church is stated to be anti-Gay. The "love the sinner but hate the sin", which I have heard in all denominations, is a hypocritical mask of this bigotry. I went to a lecture some time ago about bigotry against Gays and the speaker said the bigotry is still there in a certain percentage of the population except they just don't admit it anymore.

[voyager12]

As our country slowly but surely ( at least in my opinion) moves toward greater acceptance of homosexuality, discrimination does become more subtle as it has evolved with African Americans. Of course it's still perfectly legal to fire me for being gay or kick me out of my apt so a lot of work still needs to be done. On the Charlotte front I think it's high time we moved faster and pushed for domestic partner benefits at the city and county levels to the buttress county employee non-discrimination policy along with a non-discrimination policy on employment and housing. Charlotte is not Asheville or Chapel Hill/Carrboro but we can do better than what we have now. Whenever I bring these issues up to our gay friendly representatives it's never the "right time". Similar to the national scene the gay community is often a popular ATM during election season and then is ignored or patronized until voting times comes around again.

[voyager12]

I was just checking out the Pride Charlotte site. To my pleasant surprise among the organizations slated to have a booth is "The Susan Burgess Campaign". Interesting...

[Charlotteman]

I'm a transplanted Southerner living in the Seattle area, where it is illegal to discriminate against gay people in employment, housing, accomidations etc. The laws have been in place for years.

I have come to take it for granted that anywhere I go, I can be "out" and be myself with no condemnation, including on the job. It seems so normal for me to have equal rights (except for marriage rights), and to be treated equally.

The South is going to have to tear down all the ugly walls religion has erected in order to become as free as Seattle is. Can it be done? When I lived in the South I realized I couldn't wait forever for "it" to happen: i.e. gay people being treated just like anyone else. So I left, to live my life in an area relatively free of homophobia and racism. I left my beloved South which I miss a great deal. But I think I did the right thing.

[monsoon]

I'm a transplanted Southerner living in the Seattle area, where it is illegal to discriminate against gay people in employment, housing, accomidations etc. The laws have been in place for years......

Actually the Supreme Court has never ruled on discrimination against Gays. As long as someone wants to do it, in the USA, they are free to do so without any fear from the courts because the burden will be on the Gay person to prove it is unconstitutional.