If our four largest were gone...

[803metlife]

Haha, I'm not attempting to bash any city. Lol, that wasn't blaming Atlanta, I was blaming the fact that Atlanta is so close to Birmingham. I don't blame the people, the museums, sports teams, the administration, or any other part of Atlanta for Birmingham's problem. Just the fact that Atlanta is so close puts Birmingham at a disadvantage.

You're turning what I said into something I didnt' mean it to be. I realize I'm not on the best of terms with you, but please, don't try to over analyze.

I was simply offering my opinion. My opinion is that the main reason Birmingham doesn't not have the tourism base that it could is because Atlanta is so close and tends to attract more regional crowds, and national, than Birmingham.

Besides if it's anyone's fault that Atlanta and Birmingham are so close together, it's my ancestor's fault, the people who founded the city 120 miles away from ATL.

[nowensone]

I've been seeing over the past few years that more and more than ever it seems that Charlotte wants to be the next Atlanta (even more than Nashville). Look at the path Charlotte is taking, and looks to me very suspiciously like what Atlanta was doing back in the 1970's and 1980's. All cities on that list has sprawl but it who is seeming like trying to race for the ultimate more than anybody else?

[803metlife]

I recall arguing against this elsewhere, might have been another post of yours in another thread a while ago. Anyway, no, I don't believe that is true, CLT might want the status and recognition Atlanta has, but it ends there, if you are arguing in those terms, then Birhimgham is envious of Atlanta (along with many other cities) for the same reasons - they don't have the status and recognition and they want it.

As far as models CLT has followed, it has been as far as I know Minneapolis, and has kept an eye on Columbus, OH, and Nashville. There are probably others, but in general it probably follows ideas more than actual places and examples. Regarding examples, Atlanta has provided everyone with good examples of what not to do, so in that sense, yes, CLT is watching Atlanta. I can assure you, and there are many people on this forum who can second this, most CLT natives/citizens do NOT want to be like ATL.

[nowensone]

I don't think people mean they dislike Atlanta, or that it is unique in having sprawl, just that it is one of the best case studies in the extremity of sprawl, and the incredible amount of reliance on asphalt to ease it's traffic problems from sprawl, and other planning/urban design issues. I like many things about Altanta as well (and I'm extremely jealous of the aquarium).

If you notice cities like Miami,Houston,& Atlanta established cities have less post on UP than the smaller cities begging for someone to notice them.

[krazeeboi]

Indeed Columbia might be bigger if Charlotte wasn't so close but the same could be said for Charlotte also.

[Huntsville_secede]

I recall arguing against this elsewhere, might have been another post of yours in another thread a while ago. Anyway, no, I don't believe that is true, CLT might want the status and recognition Atlanta has, but it ends there, if you are arguing in those terms, then Birhimgham is envious of Atlanta (along with many other cities) for the same reasons - they don't have the status and recognition and they want it.

As far as models CLT has followed, it has been as far as I know Minneapolis, and has kept an eye on Columbus, OH, and Nashville. There are probably others, but in general it probably follows ideas more than actual places and examples. Regarding examples, Atlanta has provided everyone with good examples of what not to do, so in that sense, yes, CLT is watching Atlanta. I can assure you, and there are many people on this forum who can second this, most CLT natives/citizens do NOT want to be like ATL.

[803metlife]

You have noticed the large numbers of people here on the forum from the northern cities you mention, right? And that this forum started in CLT, so you will naturally have more people from NC and SC?

[803metlife]

Actually most of the people in Alabama and Birmingham don't want an Atlanta, theyd rather have limited growth and population. They shot down numerous opportunities for rapid in growth in order to preserve their old way of life.

[krazeeboi]

While 20 years is a long time and Atlanta is certainly throwing up towers left and right, NYC and Chicago already have light years' worth of a head start on Atlanta, and they aren't exactly standing still either. Check out some of the towers they're throwing up; it'll blow you away.

[monsoon]

The same thing happens here. And that why progessive cities like Atlanta reap the benefits with over 60 towers plan and 20 are currently under construction. There's no southern city with that much development going on. In the next 20yrs no southern city while be able to come close to atlanta's skyline.It will be on the same level as New York and Chicago's.

[NCB]

My pick would be Columbia, Nashville, Baton Rogue, Bham or Raleigh

[teshadoh]

I think some of you are taking too much stock in what citizens want or don't want - or city councils for that matter. The citizens of Birmingham are not making a conscious decision to not grow fast. Nor are citizens of Charlotte making a conscious decision to grow responsibly. Nor are citizens of Atlanta making a conscious decision to not grow responsibly. All of the US is in a free market society with very few places able to significantly alter those economic forces through legislation.

But considering it was Birmingham that was the explosively growing city of the late 1800's & early 1900's - I doubt sentiment has changed too much to alter attitudes about growth. But when you aren't experiencing any more growth, it's easy to say you're opposed to it. But it's also about scale - Decatur, AL probably doesn't want to grow like Atlanta either, but likely the idea of the scale of Birmingham's suburban growth would scare residents there too. Charlotte citizens are afraid of Atlanta level of sprawl, but Atlanta citizens still feel that LA is the boogey men. It's not about opposing low density growth that is the issue, it's simply development.

I'll get off my soap box - but people too often attempt to personify cities too much.

[SkyDave]

I would say the following regions would have emerged:

1.) Tampa-Lakeland-Orlando-Daytona Beach

2.) Richmond-Hampton Roads

3.) Charleston-Columbia-Greenville

4.) Birmingham

[Huntsville_secede]

I think some of you are taking too much stock in what citizens want or don't want - or city councils for that matter. The citizens of Birmingham are not making a conscious decision to not grow fast. Nor are citizens of Charlotte making a conscious decision to grow responsibly. Nor are citizens of Atlanta making a conscious decision to not grow responsibly. All of the US is in a free market society with very few places able to significantly alter those economic forces through legislation.

But considering it was Birmingham that was the explosively growing city of the late 1800's & early 1900's - I doubt sentiment has changed too much to alter attitudes about growth. But when you aren't experiencing any more growth, it's easy to say you're opposed to it. But it's also about scale - Decatur, AL probably doesn't want to grow like Atlanta either, but likely the idea of the scale of Birmingham's suburban growth would scare residents there too. Charlotte citizens are afraid of Atlanta level of sprawl, but Atlanta citizens still feel that LA is the boogey men. It's not about opposing low density growth that is the issue, it's simply development.

I'll get off my soap box - but people too often attempt to personify cities too much.

[803metlife]

Honestly I think it is pretty wishful thinking to believe that Atlanta's skyline will catch up with NYC or Chicago in another 20 years. I am not trying to knock Atlanta, but that is an unreasonable claim as 20 towers are just a fraction of what is found in either of those places and the other 40 proposed are just that, proposals. BTW, Myrtle Beach has 20 towers under construction.

[lammius]

I would say the following regions would have emerged:

1.) Tampa-Lakeland-Orlando-Daytona Beach

2.) Richmond-Hampton Roads

3.) Charleston-Columbia-Greenville

4.) Birmingham

[wrldcoupe4]

Bank consolidations and acquisitions really hurt Richmond in the 80's and 90's as they were gobbled up by banks now based in Atlanta and Charlotte. If Richmond's 3 big banks of the 90's (Crestar, Central Fidelity, and Signet) would have survived, I think Richmond would have more influence today. It still has a large banking/finance sector with Wachovia Securities, Suntrust Mortgage and others based there as well as half of Capital One, but it's different not having major banks actually based in the city anymore.

I think it could pull off being one of the larger metros in the South, but actually I really appreciate the size it is now.

[Brent]

I wouldn't say that the bank situation in the 90's hurt Richmond. Richmond's banking and finance sector employs more people than ever. I'd hazard to guess that banking jobs have doubled here in the past 15 years. Only the names went away. The buildings and their employees stayed. The consolidation of banks has helped Richmond's economy in that much larger banks (larger than the regional ones that were here) based segments of their business here adding thousands of jobs (regional office for Bank of America, Wachovia Securities and SunTrust Mortgage are located here). Capitol One was spun off of a local bank (Signet) before it was gobbled up by First Union which was consumed by Wachovia.

It would have been great to have BOA move to Richmond (VA's banking laws were still very restrictive at the time that they moved to NC, not they would have come here anyway) just for name recognition alone, much less a few thousand more employees, but not having it here didn't hurt.

Citizens and local government are key in whether a city grows. Three out of four proposed development projects in Richmond never get off of the ground due to citizen outrage (ala lawsuit). Zoning, tax structure, incentives, local work force (investment in education pays off) are the major factors in site selection. The people and the local (and state) government decide these things. Places like Charlotte, Houston and Atlanta grew like weeds because the local governments actively sought the business and had great marketing teams that first made the people of said cities believe in their visions then brought the business to the table (subsidizing airports and infrastructure via bonds, relaxing or doing away with zoning laws, handing over public property to developers, tax abatement

[bobdreamz]

The same thing happens here. And that why progessive cities like Atlanta reap the benefits with over 60 towers plan and 20 are currently under construction. There's no southern city with that much development going on. In the next 20yrs no southern city while be able to come close to atlanta's skyline.It will be on the same level as New York and Chicago's.

[erm1981]

Yeah but myrtle beach doesn't have a real CBD with business towers. It could never compete with Atlanta,Charlotte or even Columbia

[Justiceham]

Atlanta already has tall towers well over 500 feet. It looks as if Atlanta and Miami are neck and neck for proposals, but can someone break down what types of towers (residential, office, mixed use, school, hospital, retail) for each city?

[reednavy05]

Atlanta already has tall towers well over 500 feet. It looks as if Atlanta and Miami are neck and neck for proposals, but can someone break down what types of towers (residential, office, mixed use, school, hospital, retail) for each city?

[Tennesseestorm]

I did not read through all 12 pages... but I would say:

Charlotte, Nashville, Birmingham and Memphis. Maybe Raleigh.

[Martinman]

Miami, almost all but like a dozen towers are not residential, EVERYTHING else is residentialy oriented. In Atlanta, its also much condominium, but with more duel hotel with condo on top towers and a few office buildings. BUT BUT Both cities are teetering on complete saturation to over saturation in the condominium market due to price points being higher than the everyday middle class family, which i proclaim i am upper class btw. Your best buys in the SE are Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, and The Emerald Coast of FL(Panama City to Destin to Pensacola), you can start to look at Birmingham joining the group shortly as well. Overall, in America in general, looking at high rise construction, residential far outpaces office/commercial and hotels and such.

[Arkansas Student]

Doesn't seem too hard to me:

Memphis

Birmingham

New Orleans (pre Katrina)

Ralegih-Durham

Nashville

Mostly because these metros are already fairly successful on their own. Removing the "Big 4" just removes competition for the others.