Westin on Lower Broad

[Richard Lawson]

So I assume the BZA process is a quicker one? Does it still have to go to Metro Council in the end if they were to get the variance?

No they don't .. It can be a little quicker to go to BZA, just more expensive. What I was told is that BZA is a little hit or miss right now with some of the folks on the board, plus there are a couple of spots open I think, which apparently makes it a little more hit or miss. The variance these guys need has to do with a very small portion of the building. Going the SP route was described to me as using an atom bomb to kill a bug.

[barakat]

The variance these guys need has to do with a very small portion of the building. Going the SP route was described to me as using an atom bomb to kill a bug.

Well, if that's what it takes...

In the course of my work-week, I walk past the proposed Westin site often. This block, especially on the Broadway side, is very ugly. Actually, the 2nd and 3rd Ave. sides are equally ugly. U-G-L-Y. I think the Westin would be the perfect project to revitalize this corner. The argument of "too tall" doesn't make sense to me. As far as asthetics I bet there are some people who are more concerned with how the Westin-in-the-skyline will appear from the south, rather than how it affects Broadway. But this I don't understand, because Encore will have a greater impact in that regard, as would the proposed 'Crown.' In the initial renderings I didn't like the Westin proposal, but with the most recent revision, I think it is becoming more and more appropriate. It isn't too tall.

[nashvillwill]

agreed. verbatim.

[NewTowner]

In the course of my work-week, I walk past the proposed Westin site often. This block, especially on the Broadway side, is very ugly. Actually, the 2nd and 3rd Ave. sides are equally ugly. U-G-L-Y. I think the Westin would be the perfect project to revitalize this corner. The argument of "too tall" doesn't make sense to me. As far as asthetics I bet there are some people who are more concerned with how the Westin-in-the-skyline will appear from the south, rather than how it affects Broadway. But this I don't understand, because Encore will have a greater impact in that regard, as would the proposed 'Crown.' In the initial renderings I didn't like the Westin proposal, but with the most recent revision, I think it is becoming more and more appropriate. It isn't too tall.

Those who are concerned about the height of the Westin are not worried about how it will appear in the "skyline". This is an urban design issue--not a sculptural issue. We are trying to work out how to build Nashville for Nashvillians--not passing motorists. People are worried about how it will function and feel on the street.

While the block in question is definitely ugly, as you say, the difference in opinion between you and others is about what sort of future project should improve the place, not whether or not it should stay ugly. There are good reasons for wanting to keep buildings a little lower here and there--while you may not agree with them, you should address the arguments for a human-scale directly, instead of dismissing them outright as nonsensical.

The design of this proposed Westin has improved substantially since it was first announced--again we agree. However, the Broadway fa

[barakat]

Those who are concerned about the height of the Westin are not worried about how it will appear in the "skyline". This is an urban design issue--not a sculptural issue. We are trying to work out how to build Nashville for Nashvillians--not passing motorists. People are worried about how it will function and feel on the street.

While the block in question is definitely ugly, as you say, the difference in opinion between you and others is about what sort of future project should improve the place, not whether or not it should stay ugly. There are good reasons for wanting to keep buildings a little lower here and there--while you may not agree with them, you should address the arguments for a human-scale directly, instead of dismissing them outright as nonsensical.

The design of this proposed Westin has improved substantially since it was first announced--again we agree. However, the Broadway fa

[NewTowner]

Unless you are on the development or design team, I don't think it's fair to qualify your opinions as those of everyone in the ranks with the "we." I honestly don't think the height limits in SoBro are only about human-scale and sunlight. I would guess there are some people in Nashville's various government bodies who do not think in those terms. Of course it's an urban design issue, I think that goes without saying. Of course it's a human-scale issue, with regards to meeting the street. I don't dismiss arguments for human scale as "outright and nonsensical", as you suggest. I want human scale, and I think this project does a good job of that at the sidewalk. I still don't agree regarding those 'gems' being domniated by the Westin. Have you see the north side of lower Broadway from the GEC? Hmm. What is that looming overhead? What's the difference? Does the average Nashvillian or visitor really care? If one is looking east from 5th Ave, you'd have Bellsouth looming overhead on the left as it has for years, then you may have the much smaller Westin on the right. Assuming the two are duking it out for your attention, who wins? Probably Bellsouth. I think the proposed height of the Westin is a non-issue. I'm more concerned about street-level offerings and the articulation of the lowrise portion, which is based on the scale of Trail West and other neighbors. Speaking of the pedestrian, the Westin proposal runs circles around Bellsouth, because it addresses the pedestrian on the three relevant sides. I only compare the two because beyond those 'gems', they lie just behind them. In any case, this project certainly requires lots of consideration.

I agree regarding the symmetry, especially of the tower. The site is tricky, eh?

I believe I misunderstood you--we certainly appear to have many of the same concerns and priorities, and both seem to be concentrating, more or less, on the experience of the street (which is, incidentally, where people do their people things). I think the Westin could be lower, and still have the same amount of floor space through the use of better massing, and this frustrates me--but the proposed project is definitely leaps and bounds ahead of previous high-rises that have zero relationship with the streets they canyonize.

So, here's a cheers to you, and I apologize for misreading your statement about how those concerns about the Westin's proposed height don't make any sense. I still don't see how they would puzzle you, or even strike you as unfounded or nonsensical, but whatever. At least you are considering the human experience on some level, and this is a rare and wonderful thing. We are on the same team.

By the way, when I said "we" in my previous post, I referring to those of us who haved expressed those very concerns about the Westin's proposed height that don't make sense to you. I was trying to help it make sense to you, because I misunderstood your statement. My bad.

[frankliner]

Today at 12 noon and 4:30 PM Metro Planning is hosting focus groups on updating the subarea 9 plan for Sobro. If anyone is interested, they need to sign up beforehand. Here's the website where you can sign up:

http://www.nashville.gov/mpc/focus_groups.htm

Or you can call.

[smeagolsfree]

An article from the City Paper this morning. Westin trying to get zoning change.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?se...p;news_id=52431

[frankliner]

I find it interesting that the building has expanded to now demolish another building. Demolition count is now up to 4 buildings.

[barakat]

I find it interesting that the building has expanded to now demolish another building. Demolition count is now up to 4 buildings.

Sucks. Wonder if they'll offer that firm some office space or if they'll just relocate them.

[Guest]

The owners of the building accepted a buyout offer. I do not believe anyone is/was forced to relocate.

[doormanpoet]

They volunteered to sell. This WILL happen. The "talk around the hotel industry water cooler" is that this is a definate project that will happen.

[Hankster]

They volunteered to sell. This WILL happen. The "talk around the hotel industry water cooler" is that this is a definate project that will happen.

Yeah, baby. That's what I want to hear!

[Onyte9]

I think this is an awesome project. In my opinion its one of the best proposed projects to date. I love the renderings. I know people have their historical arguments but I just dont buy them. This block for the most part is in need of new life. Yes there are a few buildings but they will be restored back to their original form. It will be a huge jump from where they stand now. I'm glad there is optimism behind this project.

[smeagolsfree]

Westin passes another hurdle. This article is from the Tennessean and not as in depth as one from the City Paper but the CP article was not online for some reason.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9/1436/BUSINESS

Of note Rick Bernhardt voted against the project again.

Here is a link to the PDF version of the business section the article is in.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/pdf/business.pdf

[Hankster]

Westin passes another hurdle. This article is from the Tennessean and not as in depth as one from the City Paper but the CP article was not online for some reason.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9/1436/BUSINESS

Of note Rick Bernhardt voted against the project again.

Here is a link to the PDF version of the business section the article is in.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/pdf/business.pdf

[frankliner]

It amazes me that those against the project stated that the project would "force" the state to remove a portion of 3rd Avenue from the National Register of Historic Places. The opponents themselves said openly that they plan to petition to do this. The way I understand it, the Federal Government would not remove the buildings from the Register without a local petition to do so. It's plain and simple grandstanding and sour grapes by those opposing the project to do this. The problem for them is that they are in the minority, and none of this will change that. I fully expect this project will be approved and will be built.

[Hankster]

From the City Paper article:

"Roberts said that the Historic commission will not petition the state, adding the state performs periodic reviews of historic districts and that if the hotel is built, all the buildings it would engulf along Third, including the Trail West, would lose the Register qualification."

Now that quote certainly doesn't seem to create the situation you are suggesting. In fact, what you are suggesting is that historic preservationists would maliciously try to unqualify historic buildings for protection!! That is ridiculous. Where in the world has anyone that is against this project suggested that they would petition for these buildings disqualification?

Contrary to what seems is your belief, historic preservationists are here to create a better community, they might just go about it a different way than you would prefer. But indicting those that are against the project as "grandstanders and sour grapists (ok, that word might not exist) is simply absurd!! People are allowed to be against projects and the concerns with this project are real and legitimate!

[frankliner]

At the first MDHA meeting that I went to, they had the state official that would be part of the team conducting the review testify to the fact that the buildings would lose their eligibility on that block and perhaps negatively impact other blocks surrounding the site.

[ATLBrain]

Has anybody seen what this building will look like on the side facing Shelby Bridge? That would seem to me to be a great place for a terraced grotto bar or restaurant.

[brownhound]

Has anybody seen what this building will look like on the side facing Shelby Bridge? That would seem to me to be a great place for a terraced grotto bar or restaurant.

[ATLBrain]

Also: Isn't the historical commission the same group that painted those tacky, trashy green stripes all over downtown?

[Hankster]

Frankly, any building will be an improvement over what's now on Broadway. I walked there this morning and was appalled: terrible sidewalks, run-down buildings, garbage everywhere, nasty streets, horse droppings, and cheap goods.

I CANNOT see what's worth saving--the place is pure junk.

The area around the Schermorhorn, however, has the potential to be a first-rate area. Even the Bass Berry Tower--which would open up to the entrance of the hall--would make an improvement. Anything would improve this inner-city junk heap.

Also: Isn't the historical commission the same group that painted those tacky, trashy green stripes all over downtown?

[splash]

Frankly, any building will be an improvement over what's now on Broadway. I walked there this morning and was appalled: terrible sidewalks, run-down buildings, garbage everywhere, nasty streets, horse droppings, and cheap goods.

[ATLBrain]

Is this one approved finallY?