401 Granby

[vaceltic]

I too feel the same way, notice I said nice project not building. The building looks like the Fed. courthouse addition to me as well as the earlier Brambleton rendering. But as with all these proposals they are all concept drawings/renderings. As for this project I think it's just a way for the agent to give the developers an idea of what could be placed on this lot, not what is actually going to be built there.

Something similar to this with a smaller footprint of course would truly break the mold.

IMO the designs all seem pretty good (minus the conceptual Hilton hotel). They all integrate well together as a skyline and meld with the streetscape below. When you look at 150 West main and the World Trade Center, their use of materials are very similar and the designs flow together. Trader is starting to blend into the skyline and surrounding buildings better than I think most of us could imagine when the rendering came out. I'd much rather have an integrated, faily cohesive harbor skyline like Boston's than a mish-mash of funky buildings like San Diego.

[hoobo]

IMO the designs all seem pretty good (minus the conceptual Hilton hotel). They all integrate well together as a skyline and meld with the streetscape below. When you look at 150 West main and the World Trade Center, their use of materials are very similar and the designs flow together. Trader is starting to blend into the skyline and surrounding buildings better than I think most of us could imagine when the rendering came out. I'd much rather have an integrated, faily cohesive harbor skyline like Boston's than a mish-mash of funky buildings like San Diego.

Agree. Buildings along Granby should be more traditional in style. If that isn't followed, then you get an out-of-place building like the Federal Building. That's not to say that the buildings can't be distinctive, but they should hold to the tradition of a base, a body, and a crown. The financial district lends itself more to the modern through the prevailing contemporary style. Considering its fairly fresh canvas, Atlantic City is ideal for experimental architecture like the building in Willy's post or Newby's two tower boat.

[vtfan18]

There is something to be said for designs which integrate the city's architecture. There is always a place for integrating similar architecture styles. However, I am a huge proponent of integrating different architecture to add diversity and character to the city. Norfolk (city council) in the past has not been very accepting of modern or contemporary architecture. In fact, none of our buildings really have interesting design. They were all designed from "cookie cutter architecture 101". I would like to see more use of different materials, colors, depth, and texture to our buildings. Yes, integration is a key element. But that element is more important when it comes to urban design and land planning than to skylines.

The city's long time argument for designs they didn't like has been "not forming with existing architecture". Well, if this continues to be the trend then we'll have an entire city which looks like the trader building. Our downtown area is small compared to other cities, we need the ability and open mind set to incorporate different designs with existing architecture.

[vaceltic]

Good point VT. There is a little hope though with proposals like Cosmo 418 that the architecture and landscape of the city will change. I just think that any changes will end up be low-density, with little visibility from a distance, and few and far between. When you compare similar cities along the east coast in terms of architectural styles of the urban areas (Richmond, Charleston, Raleigh, Savannah), none of them have much radical architecture that stands out. The most radical architecture in Norfolk is either Scope or the Rotunda ....Sorry if we are too off-topic Vdogg!

[vtfan18]

Agree. Buildings along Granby should be more traditional in style. If that isn't followed, then you get an out-of-place building like the Federal Building. That's not to say that the buildings can't be distinctive, but they should hold to the tradition of a base, a body, and a crown. The financial district lends itself more to the modern through the prevailing contemporary style. Considering its fairly fresh canvas, Atlantic City is ideal for experimental architecture like the building in Willy's post or Newby's two tower boat.

This is where I disagree. I'm not saying that there isn't a sense of architecture to preserve along sections of Granby or perhaps next to historical buildings. But lets face it, Granby street is not very long. If we keep to your suggestions, do we continue the same building designs along Granby north of Brambleton? Take St Pauls place for example. They created a new building to look like an old wherehouse. Does anyone see the irony in this? Why not create a new complex to look like new urban lofts? We have plenty of historic, old buildings. Yet the city wanted the buildings to resemble what once stood on the property. There is nothing over there except for the mall so there should have been no need to preserve a certain look.

I see that next section on Granby north of Brambleton as an opportunity to reshape an entire city block. Mixed-use with residential, retail and office. Design new buildings to meet the new urban environment. During a recent business trip I found an area outside of Denver which has done an amazing job of creating pedestrian friendly, urban environment. I've attached a link, click through some of the pics on the gallery to see how they mixed residential, office, and retail in an urban design.

http://www.claytonlane.com/gallery.html

[hoobo]

I'm only talking about the section of Granby between Brambleton (essentially the Federal Court) to where it T's with Main St. There can be creativity within traditional design. It doesn't have to be boring, but it also doesn't have to be misplaced like a Ghery curving metal building, TransAmerica pyramid, or industrial Scandanavian building (like that Denver development) would be. Those styles are fine and would work in the financial district, Atlantic City, or north of Brambleton. Back to creativity. Trader and the 401 rendering look boring mainly because of their colors although they both have varying material textures. The old Brambleton tower concept has more life to it because it mixes red brick with white concrete with beige stucco and uses various arches and columned railings. Throw in some brick, tavertine stone, shale, marble, and metal work like copper that eventually will fade to green. Use arches, sills, moldings, railings, pitched roofs, etc. Give the building an identity without making it exotic. The building should not be lost among its neighbors nor should it drown them out. It should complement its environs.

[Padman]

This is a great topic, especially interesting because people never fully agree on these design principles, even though they should always be a consideration. It's a lot like form in classical music composition. The Germans made a real fetish of it, whereas the French and the Russians broke from it somewhat.

Dean Macris, the former planning director of San Francisco, put up a huge fight against the Transamerica Pyramid back in it's conceptual stages. He even wrote a very good book about planning that discusses the project in great detail. Many of you would enjoy it (I can't remember the title). But the funny thing is that most people in the Bay Area love the pyramid now and feel that the skyline wouldn't be the same without it.

[vtfan18]

I agree Padman. This is a great topic and one which will continue to be discussed with each new development. I may consider starting a new topic which will be an area for individuals to post design ideas and examples for what people would like to see incorporated into new developments for Norfolk.

[rusthebuss]

I think you guys will change your mind once you see it go up. These pictures don't do it justice. I said this with the Trader building and people did change your mind. This doesn't look like anything else. It has similarities to complement the surrounding areas but yet has its own personality.

[vdogg]

Not much but go here and under featured videos click "construction zone". Mentions the 401 Granby highrise and says the developer is currently trying to secure a contractor for the project. They state it's in the predevelopment phase.

[lil-bear]

I hope that there is some substancial (sp?) height to this if it gets built. If the Norfolk 20 floor average occurs, it will fill in the skyline nicely between the Granby Tower and the rest of the towers.

Floor 1: retail and lobbies.

Floor 2-7: parking

Floor 8-12: office

Floor 13-20: Hotel

It needs more floors.

I think this will work!!!

Why not round it off to 20 floors!

[mikeas]

It looks like this property is still for sale or waiting for a developer to invest in it.

I did notice today that a new Asian Grill is about ready to open a couple storefronts down, closer to Guadalaharas. Also, between the new Asian Grill and 401 is a sign with a rendering showing some available condos and office space.