Gentrification

[matt]

Interesting story on NPR this morning about Gentrification in NYC

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5407563

[KRC]

Interesting story on NPR this morning about Gentrification in NYC

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5407563

Great story. I hope the fund works well. It'd be nice to have Providence adapt some of the things that work out of it.

[iandonnis]

Amen, chief. Especially our friend Ian, who wanted the post-industrial waste that became Eagle Square to be left as it was. It's great to have Shaw's nearby, and Radio Shack and Staples come in handy when you need something but you don't feel like driving to Warwick.

With the stuff I see and hear every day that fires me up, I could start a whole new newspaper. I think that wouldn't be a bad thing for Providence.

Dan, it's incorrect to say that I advocated leaving Eagle Square "as it was."

I welcome criticism of my reportage, but how about getting the facts right?

On 8-02-01

http://www.providencephoenix.com/archive/f...8/02/EAGLE.html

I wrote of the possibility of SBER offering

"a bold plan to sustain and invigorate Eagle Square with a creative mix of retail and residential uses, including affordable live-work spaces for artists. The ensuing development offers something for everyone -- even a supermarket for longtime residents -- and helps to jumpstart the Promenade District's evolution as a thriving arts district."

From the same article:

"Asked about those who view Feldco warily because of the company's previous plan to raze Eagle Square, Beaudoin says the firm targeted demolition only after being told by Providence planning and economic officials that the site didn't include any historic structures.

This may have been technically correct, even though most of the seven or so mill buildings in Eagle Square are more than 150 years old and eligible for historic designation, since such a designation wasn't in place at the time. But anyone who made the effort to examine the location, which straddles the Woonasquatucket River -- one of 14 federally designated American Heritage Rivers -- would grasp the potential for something much more appealing than just another shopping strip. This is especially true in Providence, which enjoys a reputation for supporting the arts and architectural preservation, not to mention outside-the-box thinking, such as uncovering the Providence River."

[NYC_Transplant]

I think the complicated part of this entire issue is the fine line between investment and gentrification. There is no dening that Olneyville is a neighborhood that was quite frankly disinvested, with the majority of the population earning well below the state median income. What often happens in neighborhoods like Olneyville is that poor folks pay more for everything from groceries to cars to credit. (for instance getting to North Main Street to go grocery shopping may not seem like a big deal if you have a working car) Investing in a neighborhood by providing the residents with basic services like banks and grocery stores (and I believe trees) is a positive however, when investment crosses the line and becomes gentrification is when the current residents (this includes artists) can no longer afford to live in the neighborhood at all (see Soho, the lower east side, Williamsburg and most recently Dumbo and Harlem)

Planning and following smart growth which advocates mixed use and mixed income neighborhoods with higher density is the key to finding the balance so that neighborhoods can provide its residents with safe affordable places to live with basic services nearby.

[basachs]

Another Phoenix article on this issue.

http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid13331.aspx

[magoldbe]

What often happens in neighborhoods like Olneyville is that poor folks pay more for everything from groceries to cars to credit. (for instance getting to North Main Street to go grocery shopping may not seem like a big deal if you have a working car) Investing in a neighborhood by providing the residents with basic services like banks and grocery stores

Olneyville has several grocery stores, restaurants, banks, and atm's. Up until recently there was a branch library too. Nobody has to drive to north main for shopping. I live in Olneyville and I don't own a car. I can easily get everything I need on foot with a push-cart. Every weekend our neighborhood is jam-packed with people going to the big-top flea market in atlantic mills as well as the other businesses that line olneyville square.

True, some divested neighborhoods have problems with lack of functioning businesses, forcing residents to spend more just to get by. Having lived in Olneyville for several years, I have not found this to be the case here. The kind of investment I'm seeing in olneyville right now is pretty much limited to $1200 loft apartments, $300,000 condos, software company offices and rumors of a whole foods. great. just what everyone needs.

[Cotuit]

Olneyville seeks to protect housing from developers. The Campaign Against Displacement strives to ensure that immigrants and low-income residents won't be forced out of their homes by developers. [ProJo.com]

[Cotuit]

Olneyville decides to fight back. Residents of the Providence neighborhood say they feel pressured to sell out to developers. [ProJo.com]

[damus]

How many of the residents actually own vs. how many are owned and rented out (not including the owner-occupied houses)? I don't think there's anything most of these people can do but speak out... in the end the neighborhood will probably be lost to gentrification. I don't know how many people outside Olneyville are sad to see it go.

To answer my own question from provplan.org

18.2% Owner-occupied housing units (34.6 citywide avg)

[runawayjim]

How many of the residents actually own vs. how many are owned and rented out (not including the owner-occupied houses)? I don't think there's anything most of these people can do but speak out... in the end the neighborhood will probably be lost to gentrification. I don't know how many people outside Olneyville are sad to see it go.

To answer my own question from provplan.org

18.2% Owner-occupied housing units (34.6 citywide avg)

what i got from those articles is that it sounds like the owners are being harrassed to sell to developers. the owners who don't want to sell...

[Garris]

This is one of those types of countermovements that makes me fear for Providence's future. As the article points out, no one has any idea how many people (if any) are being "displaced" and the ALCO development isn't directly displacing anything residential.

The housing/property cost increases everyone is upset about has happened almost everywhere from the Pacific to the Atlantic ocean and those concerns are shared by everyone from Oakland, CA to Portland, ME.

Let's see this (and similar groups) actually do something useful by:

a) Pushing for their existing communities to be better, cleaner, safer, and more desirable...

b) Designing a business plan for someone actually coming in and making money by designing housing for people making $17,000 a year. It's not going to happen by charity.

Otherwise, this continues to be lots of heat, little light...

- Garris

PS: I doubt Olneyville will be "lost" to gentrification. There are lots of dominos yet to fall (Smith Hill, Federal Hill, Valley, Armory, Broadway, Fox Point, Downtown, Pawtucket, etc) before that one drops...

[damus]

PS: I doubt Olneyville will be "lost" to gentrification. There are lots of dominos yet to fall (Smith Hill, Federal Hill, Valley, Armory, Broadway, Fox Point, Downtown, Pawtucket, etc) before that one drops...

Doesn't the river cut through most of Olneyville? I could see developers salivating at the chance to reclaim that riverfront for the upper middle class like they're doing over in the Valley with ALCO...

[Mij]

Doesn't the river cut through most of Olneyville? I could see developers salivating at the chance to reclaim that riverfront for the upper middle class like they're doing over in the Valley with ALCO...

Much of the areas around the river are owned and built on.

[damus]

Much of the areas around the river are owned and built on.

You don't suppose any developers would come around and start piecing together large parcels of land? I guess, like Garris said, there are other areas that will become hot before this does. I was just thinking of all the watefront access, and that Cotuit said the "long term plan" for the Riverwalk is for it go to all the way to 295. Taking back the river in Olneyville seemed to me a logical step forward after ALCO. I'll admit that, although I lived in Federal Hill for a year and in Providence for 4, I have rarely ventured too far into Olneyville and do not know what is currently developed around the river. I assumed it would be more industrial sites. What's that large building across from eagle square to the left of the fire house, anyways?

[runawayjim]

You don't suppose any developers would come around and start piecing together large parcels of land? I guess, like Garris said, there are other areas that will become hot before this does. I was just thinking of all the watefront access, and that Cotuit said the "long term plan" for the Riverwalk is for it go to all the way to 295. Taking back the river in Olneyville seemed to me a logical step forward after ALCO. I'll admit that, although I lived in Federal Hill for a year and in Providence for 4, I have rarely ventured too far into Olneyville and do not know what is currently developed around the river. I assumed it would be more industrial sites. What's that large building across from eagle square to the left of the fire house, anyways?

according to that last article that cotuit posted, it sounds like the developers are sending "muscle men" to try to "coax" property owners to sell... things like sending inspectors in that will force them to make costly repairs to their homes (some that are too costly for many of the owners, one way to get them to sell). so it sounds like the developers might already be doing this.

my opinion is that the owners, if they want to keep their properties, shouldn't be bothered by these people. but they're also responsible for keeping their buildings and houses up to code (i'm assuming many of these are owners who also live in their multi-family homes).

olneyville doesn't look at all like it's being touched by developers aside from eagle square and rising sun. other areas have obvious development... smith hill, federal hill, the armory, etc.

[jencoleslaw]

i am of two minds regarding gentrification. One is that it is criminal that a neighborhood or a piece of a community has to remain crappy, filthy, crime ridden, lead-poisoned and substandard in order for poor people to have a place to live. The other mind says that when an entire community ends up being displaced as a result of development, that is a "bad thing," whether that's poor people, rich people, artists, immigrants, etc.

there has to be a kind of middle ground, but i don't know what it is, or how you get there. I wish i did because i think it would make everything so much easier.

a few thoughts on it though: local small business is better than big box retail from out of state, affordable needs to be affordable for the neighborhood, not the median (that isn't even affordable to me!) and that housing all of one group of people into one place (ie., high rises, projects, etc) is never a good idea.

[runawayjim]

i am of two minds regarding gentrification. One is that it is criminal that a neighborhood or a piece of a community has to remain crappy, filthy, crime ridden, lead-poisoned and substandard in order for poor people to have a place to live. The other mind says that when an entire community ends up being displaced as a result of development, that is a "bad thing," whether that's poor people, rich people, artists, immigrants, etc.

there has to be a kind of middle ground, but i don't know what it is, or how you get there. I wish i did because i think it would make everything so much easier.

a few thoughts on it though: local small business is better than big box retail from out of state, affordable needs to be affordable for the neighborhood, not the median (that isn't even affordable to me!) and that housing all of one group of people into one place (ie., high rises, projects, etc) is never a good idea.

well said... my exact thoughts.

[Mij]

You don't suppose any developers would come around and start piecing together large parcels of land? I guess, like Garris said, there are other areas that will become hot before this does. I was just thinking of all the watefront access, and that Cotuit said the "long term plan" for the Riverwalk is for it go to all the way to 295. Taking back the river in Olneyville seemed to me a logical step forward after ALCO. I'll admit that, although I lived in Federal Hill for a year and in Providence for 4, I have rarely ventured too far into Olneyville and do not know what is currently developed around the river. I assumed it would be more industrial sites. What's that large building across from eagle square to the left of the fire house, anyways?

I would be surprised. For one the land is a far reach from what we no as the river in down town. Some of the building along the riverway currently are Fire Department, Supermarket, and residential housing that just couldn't be bought up in one swoop like the ALCO project. To many people and at it's current situation the river is more of an open sewer. That may be a bit harsh, but it really is jsut trash.

[jencoleslaw]

anyone who thinks that developers won't start piecing together larger lots along the river in OVille hasn't been paying attention to what's going on down there. I think ALCO is a good example of a developer stringing lots together to make one large project. I don't have a packet in front of me, but i'm pretty sure ALCO wasn't one parcel, but several. Along the River.

and that's another thing that bugs me about gentrification (pro/con) is that the idea that the river can only be cleaned up by outsiders. When i was at CLF back in the day we had talked about targeting all kinds of businesses along the river and having them cited if they were out of compliance with the clean water act. When i discussed it with someone who worked for the city to ensure we had the city's support, I was told that the city would be less than supportive because it was important not to close any of those businesses because they employ a fragile population. What?! The river has to remain a toxic dump so that people can have a place to work? Just because you employ non english speaking immigrants doesn't mean you get to skirt the laws! Pollution is pollution regardless of how rich or poor you are--it is a great equalizer--it sucks for everyone.

[eltron]

there has to be a kind of middle ground, but i don't know what it is, or how you get there. I wish i did because i think it would make everything so much easier.

a few thoughts on it though: local small business is better than big box retail from out of state, affordable needs to be affordable for the neighborhood, not the median (that isn't even affordable to me!) and that housing all of one group of people into one place (ie., high rises, projects, etc) is never a good idea.

This is really the heart of the matter, and what really aggravates me about this whole thing - it IS possible and is being done better in many other places. Providence just needs to step up and start innovating. (or just catching up with some of our peers). After all, we are a "creative class" city - lets get creative with policy and make our city more livable, safe, and comfortable for everyone.

Taking $1 million dollars from the Housing Trust Fund to balance the budget (a recent proposal) is not gonna help us get there...

[jencoleslaw]

yeah, that reminds me. the housing trust fund. Is that state or city? who runs it? has any of it been used to build affordable housing? Developers are saying they've been making payments into it, but where does it go? Anyone know?

[eltron]

yeah, that reminds me. the housing trust fund. Is that state or city? who runs it? has any of it been used to build affordable housing? Developers are saying they've been making payments into it, but where does it go? Anyone know?

Thom, care to answer this?

I have been seeking (not terribly thouroughly) answers to this question for awhile now. It is a city fund. What I specifically wonder is what amount of money paid directly by developers (not from federal HUD sources) has gone to build affordable housing, and what is the specific plan for future payments?

The Mayor's Housing Plan is a start, but I found it a little lacking in details...

[Cotuit]

PS: I doubt Olneyville will be "lost" to gentrification. There are lots of dominos yet to fall (Smith Hill, Federal Hill, Valley, Armory, Broadway, Fox Point, Downtown, Pawtucket, etc) before that one drops...

Oh I think Olneyville is right near or at the front of the line when it comes to gentrification. When I went to the Cathedral Square lab during the CNU, the representative from the Planning Department mentioned how Olneyville was once considered Providence's second downtown. The trolley lines along Westminster and Broadway connected the two downtowns. You can see remnents of that past in Olneyville's built environment today. Olneyville has highly prized highway access 295 via Route 6, southern access to Route 95 via Route 10, from the south you can avoid the downtown mess at 95/195 if you're heading to Olneyville. And even from the north, you'll get stuck in traffic, but unlike the East Side, Olneyville is right off the highway, very little navigation of city streets. If/when we see fixed transit make its way up the valley, all bets are off.

Olneyville probably has the most sought after property in the state in it's mill properties, why we haven't heard about a redevelopment of Atlantic Mills by now boggles my mind.

Armory, Broadway, and Fox Point are all cheifly residential and will redevelop themselves, there's not much room for large scale investment, as there aren't many large properties. We already have anecdotal evidence that developers are buying up chunks of Olneyville (and I'm positive this is not only SBE&R though they are receiving all the blame).

I really see the Valley and Olneyville Square as our best areas, and the most primed for redevelopment and gentrification. Olneyville Square is the most urban part of the city outside of Downtown. Not only do I think it will be hot, from an urbanist standpoint, I think that's where the city should be focusing its energy. Make the the city's second hub really be all it can be.

[damus]

Oh I think Olneyville is right near or at the front of the line when it comes to gentrification. When I went to the Cathedral Square lab during the CNU, the representative from the Planning Department mentioned how Olneyville was once considered Providence's second downtown. The trolley lines along Westminster and Broadway connected the two downtowns. You can see remnents of that past in Olneyville's built environment today.

...

I really see the Valley and Olneyville Square as our best areas, and the most primed for redevelopment and gentrification. Olneyville Square is the most urban part of the city outside of Downtown. Not only do I think it will be hot, from an urbanist standpoint, I think that's where the city should be focusing its energy. Make the the city's second hub really be all it can be.

Really? I've driven (or rode) through Olneyville square, and it didn't look much more urban than other squares in the city. I never really had a reason to stop and explore it. Are there any pictures of Olneyville square today and in the past?

[runawayjim]

Really? I've driven (or rode) through Olneyville square, and it didn't look much more urban than other squares in the city. I never really had a reason to stop and explore it. Are there any pictures of Olneyville square today and in the past?

what other squares in teh city? olneyville sq is more urban than wayland sq and just about anywhere else on the east side. it's more urban than the douglas/admiral intersection (eagle park sq i think is the name of that area). how many other squares are there in the city like that? maybe a few in south prov, but again, that's mostly residential with the exception of the industrial waterfront.

i'd like to see olneyville square fixed up, but not gentrified to the point where it's this super hip place and all the housing costs aruond it skyrocket forcing the current residents from their homes because they can no longer afford the taxes.