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Gentrification

Frankie811

By Frankie811
in Providence

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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

Posted
Posted
Well, some would say both. Folks say small businesses that were operating in the mill buildings were displaced, and now can not find anywhere they can afford to do business. Folks say that Streuver's rents are unaffordable and drive up the rents and property values in the whole neighborhood. Gentrification leads to higher rents & higher taxes, which means people get kicked out. I am having a hard time understanding why you are finding this to be such a difficult concept.
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xine Whistle-Stop

xine

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So here's a fun site for those interested in the topic of gentrification:

http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/001671.html

Among other things, what I find interesting is that the definition of "unslumming" from Jane Jacobs is an interesting frame of reference apart from (and predating) what we've been calling gentrification. The idea here is that there is a substantive difference between neighborhoods whose generic status allows them to transform back and forth socio-economically with relative ease and fluidity versus those neighborhoods whose poverty becomes instutionalized - albeit well-meaning and unintentionally - through a concentration of urban renewal and social-service institutions. [insert case study between the Armory District and Elmwood/South Providence]. At this point it seems Olneyville/Valley could go either way.

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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

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I assume UP Providence is wholeheartedly behind this non-profit for profit project due to it being artist based... I bet if you replaced the words artist with developer and Steelyard with Proccianti it would probably come under fire from artists and the ONA.. I find this completely fascinating..

For the record, this sound like a cool interesting project and I'm 100% for it.. But I bet there's no backlash from the usual suspects of anti-gentrification lore due to the parties involved.. Exciting stuff though..

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glassandsteel Whistle-Stop

glassandsteel

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I really don't think it's fair to make the gentrification reference when they're not pushing anybody out of the neighborhood in any way. There's also no opposition to them because we should be so lucky as to have more of our industrial sites being utilized in this manner. There are more uses for property than offices, retail, and condos. And if I remember hearing correctly, it was people from the Steelyard that showed up to the demolition of the Fruit and Produce Warehouse, not any of us.

Also, if TPG or Carpionato ever had the vision to develop something that provided a productive, unique learning environment and any sort of cultural relevance, instead of tearing down anything that could serve that purpose for the sake of parking and speculative development, perhaps there wouldn't be that distinction.

I know you guys aren't trying to be hard on them, and I'm not trying to be a prick about this either. I just feel that this is one of our city's brightest gems, and if they can continue to grow at their current rate, we'll have another institution to brag about in our comparisons to other U.S. cities. Much like AS220. I'm proud of them for their continued success.

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Pseudo_Work Hamlet

Pseudo_Work

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I really don't think it's fair to make the gentrification reference when they're not pushing anybody out of the neighborhood in any way. There's also no opposition to them because we should be so lucky as to have more of our industrial sites being utilized in this manner. There are more uses for property than offices, retail, and condos. And if I remember hearing correctly, it was people from the Steelyard that showed up to the demolition of the Fruit and Produce Warehouse, not any of us.

Also, if TPG or Carpionato ever had the vision to develop something that provided a productive, unique learning environment and any sort of cultural relevance, instead of tearing down anything that could serve that purpose for the sake of parking and speculative development, perhaps there wouldn't be that distinction.

I know you guys aren't trying to be hard on them, and I'm not trying to be a prick about this either. I just feel that this is one of our city's brightest gems, and if they can continue to grow at their current rate, we'll have another institution to brag about in our comparisons to other U.S. cities. Much like AS220. I'm proud of them for their continued success.

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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

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The bottom line is the effect to the general public is the same; higher prices in a depressed area.. The net effect of this development and ALCO are the same to the non-artist community.. A more "affluent" resident in the area..

These new residents bring different service needs.. The project, regardless, will "gentrify" the area.. I mean, take the artist mill on Eagle St. They were listing $600k lofts.. Thats what gentrification is; a new resident moving in and "changing" the landscape.. Regardless of the intention, this project gentrifies..

I'm an econ guy.. Intention and good will are not in the equation.. They may not be displacing anyone directly, but the net effect of ANY progressive development causes gentrification..

The problem is not the development, its the word gentrification.. I don't understand why its so evil.. Its a cruel reality, but the truth is this.. If an area is not being utilized to its utmost potential, there is a risk of gentrification..

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jencoleslaw Town

jencoleslaw

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I am not an econ guy but i do think that good will and intentions do have a bottom line implication. "my textbooks," she said in a prissy voice, "are full of examples of companies that treat employees well, who in turn treat the customer well, who in turn....treat the company well by patronizing it." The difference between The Steelyard and TPG is that the Clay et al bought that property IN ORDER for it to remain a working steel yard, not just for artists but for the industry. Adding a cafe and a few spare offices for non profits doesn't by any stretch put them in the same camp as the scumbag developers who swoop in, tear down, build crap and then move on.

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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

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Ruchele, I agree with most of this, except this:

"If the "improvements" happening in a neighborhood leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, it's "gentrification." If they leave you feeling warm and fuzzy, it's "neighborhood improvement."'

Thats just not true.. Thats one person's perception of gentrification as to how it relates to THEM... I understand its difficult to step away from our personal views, but if you can.. What may be great and warm and fuzzy to you may not be warm and fuzzy to another person..

So the definition of gentrification is: the improvement of a neighborhood and pricing out of a current resident due to a more affluent one moving in.. Its a very simple definition..

As much as most of you on UP will hate to read this, by FAR the biggest gentrifiers are artists and GLB folks.. Proven fact.. Historically speaking, the above for their own specific reasons move to a depressed area.. Maybe its for cheap digs.. Perhaps its for the handsome victorian housing stock that is yelling to be brought back to its original beauty.. Perhaps its because America does not accept the lifestyle..

Not my opinions, just the way it is..

But for some reason no one cares about this stage of gentrification.. It is fascinating.. This step is viewed as overwhelmingly positive.. People only care about the next step; middle class yuppies who now see the area as up and coming and not ghetto any more... A very easy villain, middle class heterosexual whites..

I am always 100% forthright.. I don't hide behind words.. Its the EXACT reason why you hate me and skewer my opinions regularly.. When I say gentrification I mean gentrification..

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jencoleslaw Town

jencoleslaw

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what are GLB folks?

btw, dude, you're totally a gentrifier if you are trying to clean up your neighborhood by getting rid of the "baby's gotta glock" and prostitute crowd. You don't think that a safer neighborhood means higher rents? Getting rid of the criminal element is the first step in making a neighborhood attractive to people. That and off street parking.

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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

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Geez, theAnk, you're awfully defensive. I wasn't even disagreeing with you. My point was that when one person says gentrification, they mean one thing, while someone else uses the word to mean something else, so, in general, using that word to define an issue isn't particularly helpful in communicating what we're actually talking about.
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TheAnk Hamlet

TheAnk

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http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...804&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...814&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...809&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...797&indiv=1

Perhaps some low income current residents will purchase these lofts from this award winning artist development.. I wonder if 645k is market rate... I am no mathmetician, but I think 645k would be difficult to afford on the median Valley income.. If I am mistaken, please let me know..

All I'm saying is.. Lets call it what it is.. Artists gentrify...

There are negatives to gentrification for sure, but on the whole it is overwhelmingly a positive thing for an area..

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jencoleslaw Town

jencoleslaw

Posted
Posted
http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...804&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...814&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...809&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...797&indiv=1

Perhaps some low income current residents will purchase these lofts from this award winning artist development.. I wonder if 645k is market rate... I am no mathmetician, but I think 645k would be difficult to afford on the median Valley income.. If I am mistaken, please let me know..

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