Lynx Blue Line (South Corridor)

[monsoon]

What is your source?

UrbanPlanet.org

[monsoon]

In another 10 years it may cost just as much to live in northern York or western Union county anyway. May was well just be in Mecklenburg, have a shorter commute, and catch a nap on the train.

Most likely not because these places don't have the high county taxes that exist in Mecklenburg that mostly go to pay for the schools and social welfare programs. And in York's case, SC taxes are generally lower as well. One thing that gets lost in these arguments is the fact that a majority of the jobs in this metro are not located in the CBD. If you don't work for the banks, Duke, or are a high society lawyer, its a good chance your job is somewhere much closer to the Meck county line making commutes not that bad for these people.

[uptownliving]

Since its Friday, thought I would inject a little humor into this serious conversation of cost overruns on the South LRT. John Grooms from Creative Loafing has come up with a hilarious fictional IM conversation between Mayor Pat, CATS' Ron Tober, and City Manager Pam Syfert.

In this IM conversation:

Mayor Pat = fratboy1

Ron Tober = BigTuber

Pam Syfert = CityMama

check it out:

http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrob...oid=oid%3A82491

[monsoon]

Either they got really lost while testing the new train, or there is another trainset headed to Charlotte.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...st&p=578391

[karmst]

I have a question about the path they are putting beside the tracks. How long will this path stretch for, and will it be possible to cycle from SouthEnd all the way down the track to the end? If not the end, how far down?

The trolley had the path from News Channel 14 all the way to Tremont, which has not been removed. Will the path then be extended to run the length of the tracks?

Thanks,

-k

[uptownliving]

Here is a CATS press release from almost a week ago regarding the 1/2 cent Sales Tax that was not picked up by any media outlets. Just goes to prove that the local media is less interested in facts and more interested in covering controversy.

Some key facts:

60% of the transit tax goes to the current bus system

63,000 people ride CATS everyday

19.1M people rode CATS in fiscal 2006

8M increase in annual passengers since the transit tax was enacted

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/A.../PR_10.4.06.htm

[uptownliving]

CATS has now posted a letter from CEO Ron Tober to the public on their website. In it he summerizes the problems with the South Line and what actions they are taking to fix the problems:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Charlo.../CEOMessage.htm

[monsoon]

In true form of a seasoned bureaucrat, he has posted a long letter on why he isn't to blame and why he shouldn't be held responsible for future delays. I notice that Tober stuck a bunch of "ifs" in that letter including future design problems as to why this project might not be finished on time and on the new budget. What he should be saying is what he is going to do to stop future design problems and the other "outs" that he posted that letter. This late in the game, there should not be any question as to what it will take to build this system.

According to another front page article in the Observer today, the Charlotte system is only one of two in the entire nation to have busted its budget after it has received a FFGA from the FTA. It's a further damnation on Tober and his inability to run a transit construction project. I truely hope he is gone before they start any further projects and the city ought to be doing more set goals and penalities for failure to meet those goals. Apparently they are just going to pat him on the head again and let him go on to screw up this system.

[uptownliving]

According to another front page article in the Observer today, the Charlotte system is only one of two in the entire nation to have busted its budget after it has received a FFGA from the FTA. It's a further damnation on Tober and his inability to run a transit construction project. I truely hope he is gone before they start any further projects and the city ought to be doing more set goals and penalities for failure to meet those goals. Apparently they are just going to pat him on the head again and let him go on to screw up this system.

As usual the Charlotte Observer didn't tell the whole story and they leave their readers with the wrong impression. Some facts they left out of their story.

San Diego Oceanside LRT

Original FFGA: $351.5M

Ammended FFGA: $440M

25% increase of FFGA

Currently Under Construction

San Francisco Airport BART

Original FFGA: $1.054B

Ammended FFGA: $1.552B

47% increase of FFGA

Completed 2003

San Juan Tren Urbano

Origianl FFGA: $1.25B

Ammended FFGA: $2.25B

80% increase of FFGA

Completed 2006

Why did Tim Funk chose to omit or ignore these 3 projects? (there are more that will be running over budget but they are still tallying up the cost overruns)

For comparison:

Charlotte South LRT

Origianal FFGA: $426.85M

Ammended FFGA: $462M

8% increase of FFGA

Under Construction

[MZT]

I think we may see some progress south of Scaleybark soon. Looks like some work was done this weekend on the crossing signals, and there are foundations in place for new catenary poles.

[monsoon]

.....

Why did Tim Funk chose to omit or ignore these 3 projects? (there are more that will be running over budget but they are still tallying up the cost overruns)

For comparison:

Charlotte South LRT

Origianal FFGA: $426.85M

Ammended FFGA: $462M

8% increase of FFGA

Under Construction

Ok, so Charlotte is one of 4 systems in the entire country that has blown its budget. It doesn't change a thing that I said. Tober has now blown $60M+ over what he first said it would cost to build this line,and he is making no promises that it won't happen again. That money could have been used for other transit projects

[monsoon]

Someone has taken some photos of the interior of the CATS LRT vehicles. Ironically in Memphis.

You can see them here

[atlrvr]

I really like the low floor design.....the Green Line in Boston uses LRT vehicles, and the new Breda low-floor models are so much nicer to ingress/egress than the older Boeing Vertol and Kinki-Sharyo vehicles....plus I think it encourages people to move away from the exits more, so they seem to be less crowded around the doorways.

[uptownliving]

Just to put things in perspective, at last night's council meeting CDOT announced that prices of asphalt have gone up 40% in one year. This 40% budget overrun was not covered at all by any press, even though they were at the meeting. No one has called for any city officials to resign due to this cost increase. I can only imagine the "Team Coverage" that the local stations would have if the LRT project had a 40% jump in cost in one year.

[monsoon]

I really like the low floor design.....the Green Line in Boston uses LRT vehicles, and the new Breda low-floor models are so much nicer to ingress/egress than the older Boeing Vertol and Kinki-Sharyo vehicles....plus I think it encourages people to move away from the exits more, so they seem to be less crowded around the doorways.

Indeed. Apparently this train is in Charlotte now. It got stuck on I-85. There is a story in that, I just can't think of it at the moment.

[ChiefJoJo]

Just to put things in perspective, at last night's council meeting CDOT announced that prices of asphalt have gone up 40% in one year. This 40% budget overrun was not covered at all by any press, even though they were at the meeting. No one has called for any city officials to resign due to this cost increase. I can only imagine the "Team Coverage" that the local stations would have if the LRT project had a 40% jump in cost in one year.

All construction materials for roadways, transit, buildings, etc--basically any project that requires steel, asphalt, or concrete in large amounts has gone WAY over budget in the last 2-3 years. It's just a fact of life people must deal with if things are to be built in today's economy. It's totally true that the press are jumping hard on the LRT transit line going over budget but ignoring everything else. It has placed CATS and Tober, etc, in a very difficult position--one that is hardly all his doing.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Here is a CATS press release from almost a week ago regarding the 1/2 cent Sales Tax that was not picked up by any media outlets. Just goes to prove that the local media is less interested in facts and more interested in covering controversy.

Some key facts:

60% of the transit tax goes to the current bus system

63,000 people ride CATS everyday

19.1M people rode CATS in fiscal 2006

8M increase in annual passengers since the transit tax was enacted

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/A.../PR_10.4.06.htm

An additional 8 million passengers? Holy Cow. That's a number I'd love to stuff up some; where's the Observer's coverage?

[A2]

An additional 8 million passengers? Holy Cow. That's a number I'd love to stuff up some; where's the Observer's coverage?

AMEN !!!

I say shove some real statistics in front of those sensationalists.

A2

[dubone]

The Observer's coverage is trying to appeal to the backward rightists because I think Dick Rubbin has been hanging out too much with the WBT guys.

[monsoon]

Here is a CATS press release from almost a week ago regarding the 1/2 cent Sales Tax that was not picked up by any media outlets. Just goes to prove that the local media is less interested in facts and more interested in covering controversy.

Some key facts:

60% of the transit tax goes to the current bus system

63,000 people ride CATS everyday

19.1M people rode CATS in fiscal 2006

8M increase in annual passengers since the transit tax was enacted

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/A.../PR_10.4.06.htm

Well if they had reported it this way they would not be doing their job:

• They report the amount of the tax is funding the bus system. What they fail to say, is this money that has replaced money that would have otherwise come from other sources such as the general fund.

• They did not say that people felt they were voting for a transit tax to pay for buses and it was not billed that way. If they had tried to sell this as a tax to increase bus service the referendum would have failed.

• Finally, ther is no correlation the tax was the reason the ridership increased. We did another thread in another section on UP that comparied ridership of CATS to the combined ridership of the transit agencies in the Triangle, and they are very similar. The difference is those localities don't have a specific sales tax to fund those lines.

If what you said CATS is reporting as a fact, then they are pulling a Rovian George Bush on us.

[dubone]

What people "feel" is meaningless, and is not the basis for building a society. The wording of the tax funded transit, which is bus and rail. There was no promise of rail, and no promise that busses would be funded some other.

As for the correlation with the tax and the ridership increase, it seems fairly direct to me. The maintenance of effort funding from the various municipalities meant no-growth funding. With operation cost increases, this flat funding actually covered less and less service. The transit tax covered those increases, as will as a significant increase in the number of busses and routes, including express routes. Without more busses routes, we could not have had even close to the ridership increase. That is a correlation, even if there are other factors.

[uptownliving]

The 1/2 cent transit tax has not "replaced" any general fund money, instead it has added to that general fund money. To this day Charlotte, Huntersville, and Mecklenburg County all contribute general fund (property tax) money to CATS.

I agree that people may not of felt they were paying for an expanded bus system to go along with the rail system, but Charlotte and CATS were clear from the begining that the tax would go to expanding the bus system. To make the rail succusful you have to expand the bus system to feed people into the rail lines. Anyone can check that out when they read articles from 1998 in the Observer.

Regarding ridership I would say there is a direct corelation between the expanded and enhanced bus system and its increased ridership...and what funded that expansion? The 1/2 Cent Sales tax. Therefore its quite easy to draw a correlation between the sales tax and increased ridership. With regards to the Triangle, the TTA is funded by a Rental Car Tax and w/o that it would not exist. So all the ridership gains the TTA has brought to the Triangle are a direct result of that Rental Car tax.

If Charlotte or CATS had control over the local media then I think more of these facts would get out. But this is America and the Press is free to cover what they want. Personally I don't think people should depend on the media for information. It is certainly a good starting point...but if you want to find out the truth you really have to go to the primary source.

[ChiefJoJo]

Even if 60% of the transit tax has gone to bus improvements, so what? Rapid transit can't survive in a vacuum. You need a robust bus system to help serve the network and complement it. The South LRT is be partially funded through that tax, so the people are getting a rail project for their money too, along with pedestrian and other small infrustructure improvements as well.

I don't have the background of knowing the details of what went on in '98 but it seems to me that it was a vote for transit and a more sustainable growth pattern for Charlotte in the future, and for the most part that is what is taking place.

[monsoon]

....With regards to the Triangle, the TTA is funded by a Rental Car Tax and w/o that it would not exist. So all the ridership gains the TTA has brought to the Triangle are a direct result of that Rental Car tax......

The TTA is only 1 of 5 bus services in the Triangle, it does not provide intra city transit, and it's numbers are a relatively small portion of the total people served. The rental tax had no effect on the increased ridership on those systems. Thus I would say the correlation between Charlotte's sales tax and increased ridership on the buses has not been proven.

[uptownliving]

The bottom line is that be it the Triangle or Charlotte...they have increased funding to expand and enhance their respective transit systems. Charlotte chose to use Sales Tax money to pay for it and the Triangle decided to use Rental Car Tax and Property Taxes to fund it. Without that added money the ridership today would not be as high as it is in either region.