Crabtree Valley Mall

[ncwebguy]

I want to check out the Belk Men's store and actually go into the Varsity store sometime soon...

For the six store space on the first floor of the west end of the mall, is that big enough for H&M? Would Urban Outfitters want to locate there, since it would be enough space from Old Navy, Gap, etc. Or could they fill half of the new entrance in the first floor of the old L&T space?

I hope to be proved wrong, but I think the decision to leave Hudson Belk where it is will be what keeps Crabtree from getting to the "next level". Moving them to the L&T + Harrods/Willams-Sonoma/Oakley space would have restored center court to the old Talheimers/Hechts vibe and given a blank slate to the east for restaurants, movie theaters, a Nordstroms-level anchor, and a hotel/condo project.

Crabtree's missteps may help development on nearby sites -- Kidd's Hill, Kidd's Hill plaza, and Soleil -- but it will be a set of fifedoms and not a "unified" area.

[ncsugrad204]

I beleive the store that will go next to Macy will be this just a hunch!!!!

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I hope to be proved wrong, but I think the decision to leave Hudson Belk where it is will be what keeps Crabtree from getting to the "next level". Moving them to the L&T + Harrods/Willams-Sonoma/Oakley space would have restored center court to the old Talheimers/Hechts vibe and given a blank slate to the east for restaurants, movie theaters, a Nordstroms-level anchor, and a hotel/condo project.

Crabtree's missteps may help development on nearby sites -- Kidd's Hill, Kidd's Hill plaza, and Soleil -- but it will be a set of fifedoms and not a "unified" area.

Totally agreed! Well said!

I just wish that the owners of Crabtree would see how this makes them "look/appear" like an old shopping center and not the one to set the standard.

[StevenRocks]

I beleive the store that will go next to Macy will be this just a hunch!!!!

That's a good hunch. I can see both Anthropologie and Urban Outfitters at Crabtree. They'd certainly be popular (and they're both owned by the same people. Really though, I think they'll go for something with more name recognition like H&M. Edited May 22, 2007 by StevenRocks

[carynative]

I hope to be proved wrong, but I think the decision to leave Hudson Belk where it is will be what keeps Crabtree from getting to the "next level". Moving them to the L&T + Harrods/Willams-Sonoma/Oakley space would have restored center court to the old Talheimers/Hechts vibe and given a blank slate to the east for restaurants, movie theaters, a Nordstroms-level anchor, and a hotel/condo project.

Crabtree's missteps may help development on nearby sites -- Kidd's Hill, Kidd's Hill plaza, and Soleil -- but it will be a set of fifedoms and not a "unified" area.

The crabtree developers could pull a Hanes Mall (Winston-Salem) and leave Belks as is and continue the mall as two stories right on past. At Hanes Mall, the J.C. Penney is square in the middle of the mall with two equal halves on either side. To get from half-A to half-B you half to walk right through the center of J.C. Penney. No doubt a great thing for them as you have to claw your way through numeroius sales tables, etc. and walk around the escalator hub just to get where you want to go in the mall.

I don't know if this would work so well at Crabtree, unless the convenience center "ala Barnes and Nobles" was torn down and a secton rebuilt. However, that would one seriously LONG walk from Sears to whatever other anchor held the other end.

[Cary NC]

I think that Burberry is possible. It appears that the mall is going for a home run again and those stores that are possibly first in the state or at least Triangle.

Edited May 24, 2007 by Cary NC

[Rufus]

It is a possibility, and I would love for a Burberry boutique to open up in the Triangle, but I just don't see that type of store at the mall right now. I think the mall should attempt to lure mid to up-scale stores like, Kate Spade, Kenneth Cole, Juicy Couture, Hugo Boss, etc. It was a smart move to lure Lacoste, which I believe has never not busy. I think once a few stores like that come to the mall, then there would be a good chance Burberry could come. In fact, in terms of upscale stores, stores like Burberry and Ralph Lauren would work well at the mall with J.Crew, Banana Republic, and Brooks Brothers.

Here's a question-- most people I know in the Triangle see the Streets at Southpointe as the premier upscale mall, but TTC has Saks, and Crabtree has been here for quite some time. Should Crabtree even be considered an upscale, even mid-scale mall with its somewhat lack of stores fitting those types?

Edited May 24, 2007 by Rufus

[Gard]

I think that Crabtree could be considered somewheres between mid and upscale. I also believe this is a only one aspect of the whole equation. The other half would be mall traffic and that certainly goes in Crabtree's favor, having the most foot traffic of any mall in the Triangle.

[dmccall]

Juicy Couture

Ugh! I took a peek inside the Phipps Plaza location of that store and thought it looked like a bunch of sweatsuits from JCPenney. Obviously womens' fashion is not my cup of tea. I'd much rather have my wife max out the credit card at Harolds or something like that.

We're currently is a real rut as far as men's clothing goes. Everything is either boring business dress or what people ought to wear in the yard. We need some great looking casual wear.

[RaleighRob]

The crabtree developers could pull a Hanes Mall (Winston-Salem) and leave Belks as is and continue the mall as two stories right on past. At Hanes Mall, the J.C. Penney is square in the middle of the mall with two equal halves on either side. To get from half-A to half-B you half to walk right through the center of J.C. Penney. No doubt a great thing for them as you have to claw your way through numeroius sales tables, etc. and walk around the escalator hub just to get where you want to go in the mall.

Oh dear god no! Don't give them any ideas!! That is the most F$#&ed up thing in the world of malls. I remember when they first did that...ticked off the entire city.

Edited May 24, 2007 by RaleighRob

[StevenRocks]

Here's a question-- most people I know in the Triangle see the Streets at Southpointe as the premier upscale mall, but TTC has Saks, and Crabtree has been here for quite some time. Should Crabtree even be considered an upscale, even mid-scale mall with its somewhat lack of stores fitting those types?

I think Crabtree is still the most upscale mall in the Triangle. Southpoint is very flashy and it's got a great anchor in Nordstrom. TTC did well to attract Saks, too. But once you get past those anchors and the newness, there's not a lot to write home about.

If I really need to shop, I go to Crabtree, because they still have the best overall selection.

[RaleighRob]

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. If its the Anchors/Department Stores that you're a fan of, then TTC and Southpointe definitely have the edge, no question. (And Southpointe certainly has an advantage with dining, too, although it's mostly chains.)

But if you're talking about all the individual smaller "side shops" (for lack of a better word), then Crabtree definitely has an edge, selection-wise.

Since I've never been able to afford something in Saks or Nordstrom, and probably never will, Crabtree is the clear choice for me. (Not to mention its location.)

[ncwebguy]

I've only been to Haynes Mall once, but the part that didn't have the food court seemed to have a lot more empty storefronts than the part that did. I would guess that is the "newer" part, but am not sure.

The more I think about it, would Crabtree need two floors of that much space? Probably not. But converting the existing Hudson Belk space into stores and leading that to an outdoor area/restaurant row on the second floor with parking beneath could tie Cheesecake Factory and the three new restaurant spaces together. The "creek" side of the top could be stores or more restaurants, like Southpoint's mix.

But with the recent Best Buy, HB Mens, Old Navy, mystery store near Macy's, and parking deck extension/restaurant announcements, Crabtree's fate is sealed for at least the next five years.

For the wife, Crabtree is the go to mall. TTC is ok if we're out that way or meeting people from points north. Southpoint is an occasional "get out of Raleigh" destination, maybe once or twice a year. If I lived in Durham, however, Southpoint would be #1, Crabtree maybe every few months, and TTC not at all.

[DanRNC]

^ I have to say that Southpoint is the only mall I have been to in NC that has been able to successfully pull off the whole outdoor "lifestyle" thing. I was at South Park 2 weeks ago an their outdoor area is lifeless and sterile. TTC's is like a barren wasteland. Maybe Crabtree shouldn't even attempt it.

[ncsugrad204]

For me Crabtree is the best. It has the most character of a true mall. It is fully integrated and very walk able. It also feels like a very nice place just to socialize. I love the new Belk men's store. I am a guy who doesn't like to visit more than one store at a time. I like the fact it has a deck. Rain is no consequence there. The dining is good and will soon be great. I believe they have made some mistakes but just like South Park in charlotte they are seeing the error of their ways and I believe a grand upgrade in stores is in the very near future.

[RaleighRob]

Finally checked out the Belk Men's Store recently. Have to say I was impressed...I have definitely never seen such a large men's selection in this state before. I actually was somewhat reminded of big dept stores in New York. (I know I know...not quite that size...but it did remind me of them, at least.)

[StevenRocks]

I've only been to Haynes Mall once, but the part that didn't have the food court seemed to have a lot more empty storefronts than the part that did. I would guess that is the "newer" part, but am not sure.

The north mall (older section) kind of dies off after you pass Belk going towards Sears, but it tends to have nicer stores overall than the south mall (newer part).

[Beth Y]

Rain is no consequence there

Uh, I guess you have never been there in a bad rain storm when they are evacuating the covered parking on the Glenwood side cause the water is 6 inched deep and rising. Crabtree is a pretty scary place to be in a heavy rain.

[bsutton1]

N&O's Sue Stock has confirmed that 2 of the 3 restaurants coming to Crabtree are indeed McCormick & Schmidt and Fleming.

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/588817.html

[Rufus]

Interesting that Finks is closing. I thought they were doing well. Its a pretty decent location, across from J.Crew and in the same area as the supposed huge retailer. I wonder if the new retailer has anything to do with it closing this location.

[DPK]

I've always wondered about the flooding problems. What with the amount of damage that it causes every time it happens, shouldn't Crabtree have installed a pumping system by now to discharge all of that excess water?

[StevenRocks]

Interesting that Finks is closing. I thought they were doing well. Its a pretty decent location, across from J.Crew and in the same area as the supposed huge retailer. I wonder if the new retailer has anything to do with it closing this location.

The Finks manager explained to me tonight that the store was doing well, but that Fink's Corporate felt like it had one too many locations in the Triangle market. With the Crabtree lease coming up the soonest, that store was chosen to close. That's not a particurally unusual move for them. Up here in Ronaoke, they consolidated three stores into one not too long ago, with no erosion in business.

I also found ut what the new store will be. It's a bit of a disappointment, but it'll be popular (and a Triangle exclusive).

In other Crabtree news...I visited the new Hudson Belk Men's Store today. Its size is a bit overwhelming, and anyone who shoppeed at Lord & Taylor can tell how little they actually changed architecturally, but it's one hell of a store. Great selection, second only to Belk SouthPark in brands and unsurpassed in merchandise depth.

My only complaint is the awful sign they used on the mall entrance. It fetaures the new already out of porportion Belk logo and a shrunken 'Hudson.' Looks like 5 miles of bad road.

[Jones_]

I've always wondered about the flooding problems. What with the amount of damage that it causes every time it happens, shouldn't Crabtree have installed a pumping system by now to discharge all of that excess water?

Pumps won't do any good unless there were a dike also.

[DPK]

Pumps won't do any good unless there were a dike also.

How do you figure? Pump the excess water to a holding tank/basin and then discharge it at a later time at a gradual rate.

[dmccall]

How do you figure? Pump the excess water to a holding tank/basin and then discharge it at a later time at a gradual rate.

This really is a RARE problem, y'all. It only happens about every 10 years over the long haul.