Lansing Off Topic

[hood]

And for the Lansing Center to be expanded (and for it to attract larger conventions even as-is) there must be another hotel. Something's gotta give somewhere.

[RustTown]

Yeah, but from a hoteliers point of view, who'd want to risk building a new hotel in such a miserable market? The Raddison, routinely, post miserable occupancy numbers.

[LanCity]

Yeah, but from a hoteliers point of view, who'd want to risk building a new hotel in such a miserable market? The Raddison, routinely, post miserable occupancy numbers.

Who says size is the problem right now? Wouldn't you think that a convention saying "we'd choose you guys but you're short 250 downtown hotel rooms" pretty much means another hotel would be the kicker to get more interest in the Lansing Center?

[RustTown]

I keep hearing that it's the size and condition of the convention center that has driven people away, more so than the hotel space. It seems as if conventions in Lansing have been accustomed to transporting their goers in from the suburbs and the city's edge. There have been quite a few conventions Lansing has lost to the new DeVos Center in Grand Rapids because it's larger and more modern.

[GaryP]

I keep hearing that it's the size and condition of the convention center that has driven people away, more so than the hotel space. It seems as if conventions in Lansing have been accustomed to transporting their goers in from the suburbs and the city's edge. There have been quite a few conventions Lansing has lost to the new DeVos Center in Grand Rapids because it's larger and more modern.

I think Lansing would be best to not invest in the convention business at all. Not because Lansing is bad in any way, but because the like this quote says 40 cities are building new or expanding their convention facilities and the convention business itself really isnt growing. Some of these cities are eventually going to get burned.

''Existing convention centers have seen their business evaporate, while new centers and expansions are delivering remarkably little in terms of attendance and activity,'' the Brookings report says. ''What is even more striking, in city after city, is that the new private investment and development that these centers were supposed to spur

[RustTown]

I may be inclined to agree. Northern cities are losing ground to southern and western cities in terms of many different types of conventions.

Still, the Lansing Center could still be great for smaller and/or niche conventions. IMO, the current center, while decent, is just that: decent. There is nothing special about it, and in such a competitve market there needs to be something special about the centers.

Lansing's always had the problem (on many fronts) with being lodged between two major metropolitan areas, and quite a few smaller ones. Lansing's location between Detroit and GR, in this case, has really hurt it's convention business

[hood]

The major advantages Lansing has are the fact that Lansing is central in the state, even within reasonable distance from Chicago and Cleveland. Lansing is also the capitol of Michigan, making it the preffered spot for state political, lobbyist, organizational and other related conventions. Another thing holding Lansing back in the past was the limited number of direct flights and their prices, that is well on its way to becoming a non-issue. All-in-all I have always felt that if Lansing were to have even margionally comparible facilities to Grand Rapids that Lansing would have GR beat in the convention business. I think that in Lansing's case its a definate "If you build it, they will come" scenario. There are many people who would, I'm sure, like to have their conventions in Lansing, but between the lack of hotel space nearby, the size of the Lansing Center, the lack of things to do downtown and the limited flights, Lansing simply has not been an option. Now that there are more and more reasonably priced flights into Lansing and downtown is improving, that takes care of two out of four of the major problems. With the improved state of downtown the options of expanding the Lansing Center and building a hotel should begin to become more attractive.

[RustTown]

Hey, I'm not sure if I've just totally missed this when looking at the old Abrams Aerial Survey Building on Larch, but I just noticed today that the "for sale sign" now says "sold."

[hood]

Yeah, it was taken off of CBRE's website about two weeks ago, I sent Mr. Fisher a PM last week and he replyed with some nice info, but the project will now include the following (hope he doesen't mind that I post this stuff):

"Underground parking for 23, then two first floor commercial spaces about 3000 sq ft for one, and 3500 for the other, two tenant storage rooms of about 300 square feet each, and 8 garages along the back alley. The first floor commercial should be 18' ceilings to accomodate larger square footage needs by allowing for mezzanines. There will be just 3 additional floors. 2nd and 3rd floor is to be 14' each, those floors will have flats, but with some very premium features, more than I am seeing in any of the other projects. The 4th floor should be about 18' and will probably have the loft setup. 2 of the top floor units are 'penthouses' with ~450sqft terraces. I will occupy one of those. That should put the roof at about 64', but as the roof will be a sloped flat roof, there will be a 4-5' parapet around the top to 'jazz it up a bit', bringing overall height to almost 70'."

He also said that artists renderings should be coming soon.

[RustTown]

Interesting. To me, if the extra floors were deemed unnecessary, I'm glad there was a trade off (underground parking). All-in-all, it sounds like it will be a quality project that will attract a niche market. It sounds like a much smaller, but more personalized and upscale Stadium District.

I'm just inching for ONE of these to start. lol Patience, I tell myself, patience.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Lmichigan

[hood]

Well, its May so construction should be beginning soon on the Stadium district, especially to meet their September '07 completion.

[hood]

Good article in the City Pulse today about Lansing's trolley system: How Lansing's trolley system fell off the tracks

Another good article on Old Town: Old Town hoping for a ‘cool’ summer

Also found this rendering of the Grand River Ave bridge on Old Towns website:

Edited May 3, 2006 by hood

[RustTown]

I really thought they were going to do more with the bridge. That almost looks exactly like the one that was there before. I'd have liked to have seen some greenery on the bridge. The old bridge was kind of depressing it had so much concrete.

[statedude3]

I drove by the Four Winds golf course this afternoon, and I was reminded of a huge development that had been discussed for the site when I was a senior in high school (2002). Anyone know whatever happened to this concept?

It's funny how this location feels like it is in the middle of nowhere on M-78, but just 1 mile south is bustling grand river ave.

[jaredw]

From what I last heard, a couple 8-story towers had been proposed and approved by the City of East Lansing.

[hood]

I thought I remember seeing some real-estate companies sign up there, anyone know who's or if it's still there?

[hood]

Does anyone else here find it unnerving that the one time the city council decides to side with the nutty city council regulars is something like the budget? I have been watching the budget news lately and the council is acting like a bunch of idiots, I'm sure a vast majority of people support closing the golf courses and keeping the zoo open and cutting city jobs. When there is a budget deficit of nearly 10% there has to be deep cuts that nobody likes. Some people simply don't understand that and insist on fighting for frivilous expenses with no forethough.

[LanCity]

Does anyone else here find it unnerving that the one time the city council decides to side with the nutty city council regulars is something like the budget? I have been watching the budget news lately and the council is acting like a bunch of idiots, I'm sure a vast majority of people support closing the golf courses and keeping the zoo open and cutting city jobs. When there is a budget deficit of nearly 10% there has to be deep cuts that nobody likes. Some people simply don't understand that and insist on fighting for frivilous expenses with no forethough.

I don't get the impression its a matter of siding with the regulars but more going against the mayor. In the end they didn't get everything they wanted and he didn't get everything he wanted. The question that needs to be addressed is who's budget would have made things better on the 2007-2008 budget cycle. If the mayor is right and his cuts addressed the "structural" deficite this city is running, then it's going to come squarely on Council's shoulders if these same issues come up again next year. If they want to keep on drawing down the rainy day fund they could end up creating massive issues.

Two things that I think will be issues next year is going to be health care costs and wages.... at the same time, is revenue to the city going to go up?

[hood]

I think the budget will not be in as bad of a position next year as it is this year, because the mayor did get some of the structural cuts he wanted, what what wasn't this year will likely be an issue next year also. I think the most important thing is to close and sell the Red Cedar and Wavery golf courses, that land is very valuable they could easily get $10 million between the two, probably more.

[LanCity]

I think the budget will not be in as bad of a position next year as it is this year, because the mayor did get some of the structural cuts he wanted, what what wasn't this year will likely be an issue next year also. I think the most important thing is to close and sell the Red Cedar and Wavery golf courses, that land is very valuable they could easily get $10 million between the two, probably more.

I dunno, red cedar is mostly in the flood plain and with waverly being completely out of the city it might be best, politically, to turn it over to delta twp or something.

I don't think thats the biggest issue... i think that was reserved for the 38 jobs that were spared with the council's budget...

It'll be tough to say that revenue is going to increase in the city and that spending will go down when health care and wages/salaries are going nowhere but up.

[RustTown]

There is something totally missing in this budget debate every year, and it simply comes back to a shrinking population, and thus a shrinking tax base. If the council and mayor don't want to have to deal with a shrinking city and budget every year, they should be placing nearly all of their energy in programs to retain residents, and then adding to that. Seriously, these things get uglier and uglier every year, and they are arguing structural deficets and this and that with the fact being they wouldn't even have to if they'd really be doing their jobs. The fact is, if the city is going to continue to shrink, than the government must with it. If that's not what they want than they'd sure as heck better be attacking the central problem. I'm talking a total PR campaign/stunt/spin to market the city to any and everyone it can, highlighting the good and unique aspects/programs in the city that can't be found in any other city in the region. We need a cheerleader, someone to spark interest in those that may have never considered the city as a place to live before because all they'd heard was the bad. The good is not being put out there like it should. In terms of the mayor being a sympolic figurehead, he's really starting to disappoint me. The only time I ever hear anything about him, now, is when he's embroiled in controversy. I want to see him doing more formal and public gestures.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Lmichigan

[hood]

I dunno, red cedar is mostly in the flood plain and with waverly being completely out of the city it might be best, politically, to turn it over to delta twp or something.

The Red Cedar may be in a flood plain, but that land has so much value given its location and size that it would be more than worth it for a developer to take on that site. As for the Waverly golf course, it's in Lansing Twp. but it sits on extremely valuable ready to develop land, Lansing can't simply turn it over to them. If the township wants to pay fair market value for it their more than welcome, but theres no way they could justify spending that much.

When it comes to population loss, it's simple, continue what their doing with Old Town and downtown first and foremost, that will improve the image of the entire city. But I think the biggest key is preserving and improving our already good/decent neighborhoods. The city is so focused on saving the eastside, northside and baker-donora neighborhoods that they are allowing the easily savable ones falter, ad they have been doing it for quite some time. The southside, especially the southwest side, is the best example of this. It may not be nice but it very well could be, with very little effort. Other examples include Grospeck and the Delta River Drive area, they must be preserved. Once the city has ensured that decay has been halted in those areas it can then begin to seriously look at fixing up areas that are already rough.

[RustTown]

Just some contact information to pass on. In case anyone ever wanted to email the mayor of his office here are some contacts:

1. [email protected] - This is the email to Randy Hannan, the mayor's Deputy Chief of Staff. He sometimes answers back, and quite enthusiastically.

2. [email protected] - Just the general email address to the mayor's office.

3. http://www.cityoflansingmi.com/suggestions/ - another general email page that requires you to fill out your information.

Hope you guys use these to keep the office on task, and keep it from getting complacent and lazy on development matters.

[hood]

Here is an article about housing values around downtown and Old Town from the LSJ today, nothing really of not in it, but I thought I would post it anyways: Downtown improvements push up prices

[RustTown]

I thought it was very interesting. It's showing that gentrification is finally happening, again, in the inner-city. For the longest, we hadn't been able to see how these new developments were impacting their areas, and it looks like they are in a very meaningful way. I do agree with the Planning director that as we move forward we need to make sure to get affordable housing built, as well so that we don't totally outprice everyone creating rich and poor ghettos.

Edited June 5, 2006 by Lmichigan