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Haydon Burns RFP Thread

bobliocatt

By bobliocatt
in Jacksonville

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Captain Obvious Hamlet

Captain Obvious

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Some of you folk are going to love this....From the Daily Record :rofl:

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=43285

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's unlikely to work. The historical society managed to grant the Rhodes building (and two other smaller buildings on the new library site) historic landmark status. The city still knocked them down anyway.

The only way this will work is if a majority of the city council doesn't want the building knocked down anyway. Then, they can simply deny Atkin's by refusing to grant them demolition, rather than by outright rejecting the RFP. However, only two city councilors have openly made statements against Atkins so far.

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Captain Obvious Hamlet

Captain Obvious

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Why solicit RFPs and then undermine the process?  Another shining example of the incompetence that plagues Jacksonburg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Conversely, one could argue that the true incompetence was starting an RFP process without explicit instructions to consider historic preservation. The city council has the authority to correct that mistake by rejecting Atkins, if they see fit.

Remember, the JEDC never said that demolishing the building was superior to preservation. They were basically ordered to ignore preservation. Nevermind whether preserving this building is ultimately worthwhile or not. How in the heck could we allow our RFP process to purposely ignore the possibility?? That is the kind of backwards thinking that has been plaguing Jacksonville's downtown for years.

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jjoshjl Whistle-Stop

jjoshjl

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I am going to do this tonight myself, but if it is at the point where it is up to City Council, then we should all email/mail our respective council men and give a long detailed explaination of why Atkins should be supported. I dont want it to get rejected at this late stage of the game. As I've mentioned before, I am sure they rarely hear from any of their constituants, so, Lets all make a little noise and let our Councilmen know.

However, make it as positive as possible, make your arguements FOR Atkins in a positive manner. If you want to mention peterbrook, do so in an appropriate manner. To much negativeness could cause them to vote opposite of what you want...

Cheers

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

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Conversely, one could argue that the true incompetence was starting an RFP process without explicit instructions to consider historic preservation. The city council has the authority to correct that mistake by rejecting Atkins, if they see fit.

Remember, the JEDC never said that demolishing the building was superior to preservation. They were basically ordered to ignore preservation. Nevermind whether preserving this building is ultimately worthwhile or not. How in the heck could we allow our RFP process to purposely ignore the possibility?? That is the kind of backwards thinking that has been plaguing Jacksonville's downtown for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Off of this arguement, why should we award extra points in an RFP to proposals willing to save the building in its current state? Its very false statement to make the claim that this building is best example of 1960's era Modernist architecture in downtown. This isn't the Laura Trio or the original library, we're talking about. The last time, I checked, downtown is littered with them. Imo, the JEA and Riverplace Towers are two better examples.

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asonj23 Hamlet

asonj23

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^ Good point Lakelander.

This "historic preservation" argument is nothing more than a last minute effort to push Peterbrooke back into the runnings for development (or lack thereof) of this site. They offer NOTHING for downtown. If they were fighting for something significant, as Lakelander stated, their argument would actually carry some weight. Their must ba a ton of chocoholics in this town :P

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RiversideGator Burg

RiversideGator

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I agree with Lake. The Riverplace Tower is clearly the best example of 1960s architecture in Jacksonville and this bldg will probably never be torn down (and shouldnt). I think most people can also agree that it is an attractive structure. As to the Haydon Burns, most people think it sucks. For some reason, the open minded set (i.e. leftists) in Jacksonville have decided that this ghastly building is worthy of saving, perhaps as a monument to their favorite decade - the 1960s. For me, I have always hated the building since as far back as I can remember (at least back to when the building was only 10 years old). I also fail to see how a 1960s building is historic in any shape of the word. What historic event happened there? How is it architecturally significant (other than being the ugliest building in the Southeast United States)?

But, regardless all of the architecture arguments, the most important question should be which proposal is best for downtown and is it in the best interests of downtown for this structure to remain at this critical intersection? The answers are clearly Atkins and No.

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

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There's no reason to undermine the process already set in place and waste the money, time & effort of the winning team considering they followed all the rules the city and JEDC set forward.

I'm going to follow jjoshjl's lead and write a letter to the mayor and city council, also in support of the Atkins project. All of these preservation efforts, like the Riverside widening ideas should have been presented over a year ago, BEFORE the initial Haydon Burns RFP.

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asonj23 Hamlet

asonj23

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Just finished my letter! It'll go out in the morning. :thumbsup:

The first Europeans settled in Jacksonville in 1564 (or was it '63?). Jacksonville's recorded history goes back almost 500 years. What on earth is so historic about an ugly building that is less than 50 years old?

Exactly! There is plenty of significant history to be saved. Raze the Hayden Burns and lets get some steel and concrete in the air!

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merlin Whistle-Stop

merlin

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This appeal should have been made before the results were announced. 

That way it would at least render some sincerity and honesty about it instead of appearing as poor sportsmanship conduct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to play "when and if" then the proposal to make it a historic landmark should have been made at the very first issue of the RFP over a year ago. I am one who likes the building, but come on folks this is for the greater good of downtown. If peterbrooke and Main Branch want to do something downtown , there is still plenty of land and buildings ready to be refurbished. I agree with an earlier comment, the city should assist in helping both Peterbrooke and Main Branch find some viable sites for their intentions as well as possibly offer some incentives.

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

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OLD MAIN LIBRARY

Save unique building

More than two years ago, the directors of the Jacksonville Historical Society passed a resolution concerning the future of the old Main Library building.

The society's stand is as resolute today as it was then: The building should be preserved. The recent committee recommendation to allow demolition of the building indicates that the structure was ultimately viewed in terms of its tear-down value.

The city's master plan as codified in the downtown zoning overlay was ignored. However, the mayor and the City Council have the power and the responsibility to rescue this landmark-eligible building.

It is imperative to save our city's mid-20th century history, especially in the irreplaceable style offered by the old Main Library building. It is critical that leaders embrace notable structures that reflect our city's history through time.

The imprint of a distinctive place is vital in a landscape of architectural duplicates and cookie-cutter buildings. We must not miss the opportunity to preserve this unique building and the uniqueness of this special place we all call home.

EMILY R. LISSKA, executive director, Jacksonville Historical Society, Jacksonville

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor..._19303005.shtml

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OLD MAIN LIBRARY: Preserve architectural heritage

The city of Jacksonville stands poised on the verge of witnessing a great tragedy with the potential destruction of the old Main Library building.

The loss of the only remaining modernist public building would have a significant negative impact on the architectural heritage and fabric of the city.

The Jacksonville Chapter of the American Institute of Architects urges the mayor and City Council to recognize the importance of this building and avert this potential loss to our community.

While there are many issues involved in deciding the future of the building, the major ones appear to be its obsolescence in view of its original mission, i.e., its function as a state-of-the-art central library, its financial value to the city and its controversial design.

There is no question that saving a large modernist building occupying a prominent downtown site would be a controversial one in these conservative times.

There is also no question that this building is a significant modernist statement whether you like the design or not.

Its distinctive design is one that stirs strong emotion, people seem to like it or hate it with not much in between.

While modernist architecture may not be in vogue in Jack- sonville today, the loss of this building would erase this genre from our urban core.

Because of its design, its prominence as a public building and its downtown location, it represents a major piece of our architectural heritage.

As we strive to establish ourselves as a first-tier city, we must recognize that history, architectural heritage and architectural diversity are all part of the fabric that raises some cities above others both as destinations and as places to live.

While modernism may not be fashionable in Jacksonville, it is in much of the rest of the country. Realtors in Miami, Sarasota and California, are specializing in finding and listing modernist properties.

Whether it is baby boomer nostalgia or simply a yearning to escape the smothering conformity and fear of individualism that permeates post-Sept. 11, 2001, America, modernism is re-emerging as a style both desirable and worth saving.

It was one of the tangible examples of a time when our country challenged convention, embraced the promise of the future or, in today's terms, dared to think out of the box.

Preserving this building may be a controversial decision today, but as this trend makes its way to Jacksonville it may not be in the near future.

It is not the intent of AIA Jacksonville to endorse one proposal for the property over another. It is our intent to urge the mayor and City Council to do the right thing, to look beyond the immediate financial gain, and place a value on our history and heritage.

The officials of our city have made many good and some bad decisions in the revitalization of downtown Jacksonville. Add the preservation of this building to the good column.

LEWIS E. EVERLINE JR., president, American Institute of Architects, Switzerland

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor..._19302983.shtml

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Jmac823200 Unincorporated Area

Jmac823200

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Posted

OLD MAIN LIBRARY

Save unique building

More than two years ago, the directors of the Jacksonville Historical Society passed a resolution concerning the future of the old Main Library building.

The society's stand is as resolute today as it was then: The building should be preserved. The recent committee recommendation to allow demolition of the building indicates that the structure was ultimately viewed in terms of its tear-down value.

The city's master plan as codified in the downtown zoning overlay was ignored. However, the mayor and the City Council have the power and the responsibility to rescue this landmark-eligible building.

It is imperative to save our city's mid-20th century history, especially in the irreplaceable style offered by the old Main Library building. It is critical that leaders embrace notable structures that reflect our city's history through time.

The imprint of a distinctive place is vital in a landscape of architectural duplicates and cookie-cutter buildings. We must not miss the opportunity to preserve this unique building and the uniqueness of this special place we all call home.

EMILY R. LISSKA, executive director, Jacksonville Historical Society, Jacksonville

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor..._19303005.shtml

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OLD MAIN LIBRARY: Preserve architectural heritage

The city of Jacksonville stands poised on the verge of witnessing a great tragedy with the potential destruction of the old Main Library building.

The loss of the only remaining modernist public building would have a significant negative impact on the architectural heritage and fabric of the city.

The Jacksonville Chapter of the American Institute of Architects urges the mayor and City Council to recognize the importance of this building and avert this potential loss to our community.

While there are many issues involved in deciding the future of the building, the major ones appear to be its obsolescence in view of its original mission, i.e., its function as a state-of-the-art central library, its financial value to the city and its controversial design.

There is no question that saving a large modernist building occupying a prominent downtown site would be a controversial one in these conservative times.

There is also no question that this building is a significant modernist statement whether you like the design or not.

Its distinctive design is one that stirs strong emotion, people seem to like it or hate it with not much in between.

While modernist architecture may not be in vogue in Jack- sonville today, the loss of this building would erase this genre from our urban core.

Because of its design, its prominence as a public building and its downtown location, it represents a major piece of our architectural heritage.

As we strive to establish ourselves as a first-tier city, we must recognize that history, architectural heritage and architectural diversity are all part of the fabric that raises some cities above others both as destinations and as places to live.

While modernism may not be fashionable in Jacksonville, it is in much of the rest of the country. Realtors in Miami, Sarasota and California, are specializing in finding and listing modernist properties.

Whether it is baby boomer nostalgia or simply a yearning to escape the smothering conformity and fear of individualism that permeates post-Sept. 11, 2001, America, modernism is re-emerging as a style both desirable and worth saving.

It was one of the tangible examples of a time when our country challenged convention, embraced the promise of the future or, in today's terms, dared to think out of the box.

Preserving this building may be a controversial decision today, but as this trend makes its way to Jacksonville it may not be in the near future.

It is not the intent of AIA Jacksonville to endorse one proposal for the property over another. It is our intent to urge the mayor and City Council to do the right thing, to look beyond the immediate financial gain, and place a value on our history and heritage.

The officials of our city have made many good and some bad decisions in the revitalization of downtown Jacksonville. Add the preservation of this building to the good column.

LEWIS E. EVERLINE JR., president, American Institute of Architects, Switzerland

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor..._19302983.shtml

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:wacko: These guys make me throw up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sick::sick::sick:

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jjoshjl Whistle-Stop

jjoshjl

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Im serious everyone.. WRITE YOUR COUNCILMAN/MAYOR/FTU....

We keep seeing their side.. we NEED to get our side heard...

POLITICS IS ABOUT WHO SCREAMS THE LOUDEST... and that may not be what the majority wants...

SO WE HAVE TO MAKE IT KNOWN...

alot of you work in the industry...

get your coworkers to write... Get family to write... JACKSONVILLIAN... you work with Atkins right? Get the ok from your boss, but then send an email to interested parties within your company to SEND OUT LETTERS... They dont ned to knwo you work for atkins...

To sound cheeseballish... We need to mobilize... save the library people already have..

Hell... print 1000 fliers off of a home computer and put them on peoples cars at the mall...

There are things we can do,

Cheers

Josh

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