Fayetteville, Arkansas

[Mith242]

Worst case scenario for those mentioned above, if they hate it so much, they truly can move on, and it won't hurt them much. Better yet, invest in some trees to screen the thing from view.

[zman9810]

Forgot to mention yesterday. Looks like the future Garland St between North and Melmar won't have a tree lined center median. The AHTD said they wouldn't go with that plan because they thought there are too many streets and homes in the area. So it sounds like the city is going to ask for a few pedestrian islands to be put in. Not sure if it will be just for aesthetic purposes or maybe for some possible future trails that might run through that area. Not sure when everything will be finalized and construction will start.

One of the major reasons for the Garland (Hwy 112) project is to improve traffic flow. The median isn't just for aesthetics- it will help cut down on the number of dangerous lefthand turns across traffic. By having a median with only a few complete intersections and fewer access points it creates a much safer and efficient thoroughfare. By only having complete intersections at major cross streets like Mt. Comfort and Sycamore you force local traffic to take side streets to these major intersecting streets. These intersections would be controlled with traffic lights producing a more orderly flow on Garland. It will cause minor problems for some right on Garland but since this street will become more and more important as a route to I540 and the commercial area in north Fayetteville and so be much busier it needs to have that median.

Usually the State Highway Department is for creating better traffic flow and long range planning. The median would help move traffic safer and smoother. Hopefully the city will be able to work with the department to get the median back in the plans. Using medians as a traffic control device is common in other metros. In some cities the medians have no aesthetic value at all but are strictly for limiting cross traffic. Letting each private driveway and small street make lefthand turns across two lanes is dangerous and counterproductive to the goal of improving traffic flow.

Edited June 13, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

One of the major reasons for the Garland (Hwy 112) project is to improve traffic flow. The median isn't just for aesthetics- it will help cut down on the number of dangerous lefthand turns across traffic. By having a median with only a few complete intersections and fewer access points it creates a much safer and efficient thoroughfare. By only having complete intersections at major cross streets like Mt. Comfort and Sycamore you force local traffic to take side streets to these major intersecting streets. These intersections would be controlled with traffic lights producing a more orderly flow on Garland. It will cause minor problems for some right on Garland but since this street will become more and more important as a route to I540 and the commercial area in north Fayetteville and so be much busier it needs to have that median.

Usually the State Highway Department is for creating better traffic flow and long range planning. The median would help move traffic safer and smoother. Hopefully the city will be able to work with the department to get the median back in the plans. Using medians as a traffic control device is common in other metros. In some cities the medians have no aesthetic value at all but are strictly for limiting cross traffic. Letting each private driveway and small street make lefthand turns across two lanes is dangerous and counterproductive to the goal of improving traffic flow.

Yeah it's sorta odd how nobody wants another College Ave built in other areas of the city. Yet somehow we seem to end up heading closer to that direction. I read an interesting editorial since I posted that info. Apparently the AHTD has complained that Fayetteville changes it's mind a lot which makes designing these future roads more of a challenge. But in this case Fayetteville said what it wanted. It was the AHTD that finally said it wasn't going to built Garland that way. The AHTD never set any guidelines and gave any indication that they'd never accept any median. It's just sorta funny how they seem to be trying to portray this as Fayetteville's fault. Ironically I never heard anyone complain about a median causing someone to have to take a slightly longer route to get to their destination. Generally you hear the local people complain a lot. It seems the only one that has a problem with this is the AHTD. For the people living on Garland having a median would be more of a hassle. But I also think living on a tree lined median street would be more appealing as well rather than living on what has more of a potential of being designed like a future College Ave.

[zman9810]

Yeah, the only spot where a center turning lane would be needed is just north of North Street between Oak Plaza and Harp's. When the Mount Comfort intersection is redesigned that would be a good place to begin the median going north. It could be the highway department sees this as a neighborhood street when it is really a primary corridor between the center of Fayetteville and the rest of NWA. It's hard enough getting to the University of Arkansas and downtown areas from the north via I540 without a badly designed Garland making it more difficult and dangerous. When Garland was given an interchange with I540 it established the street as a major thoroughfare that needs to be designed with smooth traffic flow in mind.

Edited June 13, 2009 by zman9810

[Snaple4]

I just moved from living next to Garland (Opposite corner of Garland and Sycamore but same block as the Church) and I WANT a median along that road. Even neighborhood streets have medians. It is sooo dangerous trying to turn on that road. I sent a suggestion to Mr. Petty about having parallel parking as well but doubt it was well received if mentioned. I can understand not having a median near North street b/c of the businesses but further North needs one. Dean and Sycamore need to become one intersection but that would require removing a few homes and an altered street path (something the city would not like doing)

[Mith242]

Yeah I can basically just think of a couple of areas that shouldn't have a median. As everyone's mentioned the section near North St. I'd leave out the median as far north as the newly positioned Mt Comfort Rd. The only other spot I can think of is the section near Sycamore and Deane. All the other streets are pretty small and I think most people avoid trying to make left hand turns along most stretches of Garland besides the ones just mentioned.

[zman9810]

Yes, the Sycamore and Deane intersections are close enough and busy enough that a continuous turn lane between the two might be a good idea. Melmar might need a complete intersection but since it is a neighborhood street with several speed tables it might be better left out.

If maintenance of the median is what the Highway Department is concerned about I think the city handles that. Other than not doing things the same way as they've always done them and being out of someone's comfort zone in designing roads there isn't a good reason to not include a median. The city is putting up a share of the costs for this street that is within the city so they should have some say in the decision.

Edited June 14, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Well not so fast on the parking meter issue. Apparently Jordan won't be getting rid of any parking meters near the Square. A couple of weeks ago he acted as if he'd follow the suggestion. But now he's apparently backed off from that. It even sounds like he plans to reinstall parking meters on Block St that were removed a while back. I'm just curious if he may even try to eventually put parking meters back on the Square itself. Seems a little odd to have meters so close to the Square but not actually on the Square itself. While some downtown businesses apparently want to do away with the parking meters other businesses don't. Some are afraid people who work in the downtown area will simply take the closer parking spots that are free. I'm curious to see if this ends up leading to a bigger issue.

[zman9810]

Well not so fast on the parking meter issue. Apparently Jordan won't be getting rid of any parking meters near the Square. A couple of weeks ago he acted as if he'd follow the suggestion. But now he's apparently backed off from that. It even sounds like he plans to reinstall parking meters on Block St that were removed a while back. I'm just curious if he may even try to eventually put parking meters back on the Square itself. Seems a little odd to have meters so close to the Square but not actually on the Square itself. While some downtown businesses apparently want to do away with the parking meters other businesses don't. Some are afraid people who work in the downtown area will simply take the closer parking spots that are free. I'm curious to see if this ends up leading to a bigger issue.

It shouldn't be too big of an issue- it's just maintaining the status quo on that one stretch of Block and returning to what was there already on the other. I think the part of the idea about having free parking right on the square is to encourage tourism since the visitor's bureau is right there and the gardens are advertised so much. The Farmer's Market and Lights of the Ozarks take up some of those spaces anyway parts of the year.

It's encouraging that the city leaders see the need to generate a revenue stream to build decks. Even if the first one is on Dickson to support the Walton Arts Center expansion it will still have positive effects on the square as it will the entire city. In time a deck will be needed right downtown and a revenue source will be in place.

The one comment about the other downtown areas in NWA not having paid parking and thriving seems a little off- Fayetteville's downtown is in good shape considering the economy. I think if you compare property values of Fayetteville's downtown to the others there would be evidence that Fayetteville is doing just fine. We are in a down business cycle right now but that will turn around and it isn't because of paid parking.

Edited June 17, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

The one comment about the other downtown areas in NWA not having paid parking and thriving seems a little off- Fayetteville's downtown is in good shape considering the economy. I think if you compare property values of Fayetteville's downtown to the others there would be evidence that Fayetteville is doing just fine. We are in a down business cycle right now but that will turn around and it isn't because of paid parking.

Yeah I saw that in the article I read. I wouldn't describe Springdale's or Roger's downtown as 'thriving' compared to Fayetteville's. I think that businessman was just trying to scare people about paid parking. I do think paid parking is going to be inevitable. I'm just curious to see if some people are going to make a big issue of it.

[Mith242]

Well it does look like some of the Hyland Park citizens are going to put their money where their mouth is. Looks like some of them are trying to come up with some ways to build the water tower a little bit further away. If this ends up working out then fine. Just as long as a water tower gets built soon.

[zman9810]

Well it does look like some of the Hyland Park citizens are going to put their money where their mouth is. Looks like some of them are trying to come up with some ways to build the water tower a little bit further away. If this ends up working out then fine. Just as long as a water tower gets built soon.

Sounds like it is settled - the city will give up its claim to lot 22, the next door neighbor will pay some money and Gary Combs will let his lot be used for the tower- good for him. It will still cost more to build at the new location but it might be cheaper than having to take it to court and leave the safety situation as is.

On another issue - the debate over rezoning the old sale barn land next to the National Cemetary is still going on. The owner of the land is quitting business and has an offer to sell to a group wanting to build student housing but the sale is contingent on the land being rezoned so that they can build a complex. As much as I would like to see the veterans get the land for expansion of the cemetary it's wrong to use the city to try and keep the owner from selling it to a responsible buyer. It's a downzoning as is and much worse things could be built than student housing. It's not the city government's place to play favorites and seems like it could lead to legal action against the city.

Edited June 18, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

On another issue - the debate over rezoning the old sale barn land next to the National Cemetary is still going on. The owner of the land is quitting business and has an offer to sell to a group wanting to build student housing but the sale is contingent on the land being rezoned so that they can build a complex. As much as I would like to see the veterans get the land for expansion of the cemetary it's wrong to use the city to try and keep the owner from selling it to a responsible buyer. It's a downzoning as is and much worse things could be built than student housing. It's not the city government's place to play favorites and seems like it could lead to legal action against the city.

Thanks for bringing that up. I have to agree with you. It would be great if the National Cemetery could get that land. But the owner deserves to sell the land and if a developer is willing to buy the land. Student housing may not be the ideal development for that land there is worse. To be honest I wasn't a huge fan of having all the livestock there. Having the old barn there with a lot of smelly livestock right next to the National Cemetery never was my idea of a great thing either. It would be great if maybe the developer, as a sign of goodwill, was able to give up a piece of the adjoining property to the National Cemetery. Allowing the National Cemetery a little more room to grow for the future. But the developer shouldn't be required to do something if they buy the land and that development fits the zoning.

[Mith242]

The Chamber of Commerce Bldg is apparently getting renovated. They'll work on the exterior of the building then eventually renovate the interior. The new building will have red brick and limestone with some antiqued bronze aluminum.

[zman9810]

The Chamber of Commerce Bldg is apparently getting renovated. They'll work on the exterior of the building then eventually renovate the interior. The new building will have red brick and limestone with some antiqued bronze aluminum.

Isn't the CC building squeezed in between the city administration building and the old Cox building? Shouldn't take much to redo that exterior.

Another project in that area is coming right along. The new court building just west of the police department is almost finished on the exterior ( I tried to take a pic today but my camera battery decided to die at that time). This will be a perfectly fine building that will serve its purpose well but is a waste of the scarce space available for development in that area. Although it helps make more efficient use of the limited space downtown by taking the areas that used to be used as surface parking for the police cars it wastes the air space that could have been used. A three or four story building with parking on the ground level and police department and court space above would have been a much better use of the lot. A building like this would fit into the area very well and help the overall economic health of the downtown area.

With this mis-planning in mind a good idea for the future needs of the police department would be to use the city parking lot across the street from the city adminstration building and west of the KNWA antenna array for a future police station. There is plenty of space for a new station and would enable good reponse times for the police by having a central location. It would show a continued commitment by the city towards the City Plan 2025. It would also help move forward a plan for a parking deck on the lot just north of this lot and just west of the old EJ Ball Building. The city government needs to be the leader in keeping Fayetteville's downtown a vibrant center of community; this would be a good step in that direction.

Edited June 21, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Isn't the CC building squeezed in between the city administration building and the old Cox building? Shouldn't take much to redo that exterior.

I'm not positive because I thought I'd heard that they'd moved sometime in the past year. I was thinking they were next to KNWA at that corner building on the Square. Maybe after I do some errands later today I need to go out and check out the area and take a few pics.

With this mis-planning in mind a good idea for the future needs of the police department would be to use the city parking lot across the street from the city adminstration building and west of the KNWA antenna array for a future police station. There is plenty of space for a new station and would enable good response times for the police by having a central location. It would show a continued commitment by the city towards the City Plan 2025. It would also help move forward a plan for a parking deck on the lot just north of this lot and just west of the old EJ Ball Building. The city government needs to be the leader in keeping Fayetteville's downtown a vibrant center of community; this would be a good step in that direction.

Yeah I really like this idea as well.

[Mith242]

I'm not positive because I thought I'd heard that they'd moved sometime in the past year. I was thinking they were next to KNWA at that corner building on the Square. Maybe after I do some errands later today I need to go out and check out the area and take a few pics.

Hmmm...I think I may be thinking of the Fayetteville Visitor's Bureau. But looking at a map I think the Chamber of Commerce might be in the building just south of it across Mountain St. If that is correct it's in the old Woolworth Bldg. I think someone remodeled it in the 80's and it's lost it's 'older' look. This might be an effort to help it regain it's former look or something closer to it.

[Mith242]

Isn't the CC building squeezed in between the city administration building and the old Cox building? Shouldn't take much to redo that exterior.

You are correct. I was thinking of the Fayetteville Visitor's Bureau. Then apparently Google maps isn't too accurate. The other building I thought it might be from looking at the map was the old Woolworth Bldg, but that's apparently law offices. Here's a couple of pics of the Chamber of Commerce.

Another project in that area is coming right along. The new court building just west of the police department is almost finished on the exterior ( I tried to take a pic today but my camera battery decided to die at that time). This will be a perfectly fine building that will serve its purpose well but is a waste of the scarce space available for development in that area. Although it helps make more efficient use of the limited space downtown by taking the areas that used to be used as surface parking for the police cars it wastes the air space that could have been used. A three or four story building with parking on the ground level and police department and court space above would have been a much better use of the lot. A building like this would fit into the area very well and help the overall economic health of the downtown area.

Well here's a few shots of that project as well.

[zman9810]

You are correct. I was thinking of the Fayetteville Visitor's Bureau. Then apparently Google maps isn't too accurate. The other building I thought it might be from looking at the map was the old Woolworth Bldg, but that's apparently law offices. Here's a couple of pics of the Chamber of Commerce.

Well here's a few shots of that project as well.

Nice pics, thanks! At one time there was talk of buiding a whole new city complex on the spot where the CC building and old Cox building are but I guess that idea has been discarded.

Edited June 22, 2009 by zman9810

[zman9810]

The question of rezoning the Washington County Sale Barn land so that the owners can sell it to Campus Crest for student housing is in the news again. A veterans group wants the City Council to reject the rezoning that makes the sale possible so that they will have time to try to raise the money needed to buy the land to expand the national Cemetery. As a former college student and former apartment dweller who has three immediate family members buried in a national cemetery I feel I have a somewhat unique perspective on this issue. While I feel for the veterans group and see the need for land to expand the cemetery this is not the way to do it.

Whether or not the land is needed by the National Cemetery is not the issue- it is whether or not the owner has the right to sell his land by a valid contract. The rezoning in question is a downzoning for a less intense use- there is not a legitimate reason to not approve the rezoning. The idea that the downzoning of the land for use as a residential complex shouldn't be approved while it has been used for years as an industrial area with trailers of livestock and big trucks moving around it and auctioneering being blared over loundspeakers is ridiculous. The claim that this is some quiet tranquil area doesn't hold water.

The statement by one veterans leader that "Students are the worst kind of neighbor you can have," is irresponsible and very detrimental to the veterans cause. This is like saying that because some veterans commit crimes that all are criminals- it a generalization that is wrong and shows a lack of understanding. We should remember that without college students there would not be a University of Arkansas with all of it's importance to the city of Fayetteville.

The argument that Fayetteville has too many apartments is another example of a lack of understanding and prejudice. Many people do not have the financial means to buy a house or are in a transitory phase of their life and don't need a single family home. These people still need a place to live - should they be forced to live in another city and commute to Fayettevile? Market forces should be what dictate what type of housing is built- not a a form of discrimination.

Here's a photo of the land in question showing that this not a quiet tranquil area but in the heart of an industrial area close to major thoroughfares. There is land on the northwest, west and south sides of the cemetery that the veterans should be looking at gradually acquiring as they become available.

[Mith242]

I have to agree with you. Would I like for the National Cemetery to have that land? Sure, I'd like the cemetery to have more land to meat their needs for the future. But as you said that's not really the issue. I don't think this is the right way to go about this. Of course they really should have gotten with the previous owner of the land and at least let him know they'd be interested in buying the land if given enough time to raise the money. It sounds to me like the owner of the land thought they'd only be willing to accept the land as a donation. Which he couldn't afford to do. I also cringed at the comments that college students were the worst type of neighbors to have. Student housing may not be the best thing to have next to you. But I don't think you can just assume that there's going to be keg parties spilling over to the National Cemetery either. But what gets me is that this is all happening after the land has already been sold. I certainly respect what veterans have done for everybody. But to me the way all of this is being handles tarnishes with what the National Cemetery is supposed to represent.

[zman9810]

I have to agree with you. Would I like for the National Cemetery to have that land? Sure, I'd like the cemetery to have more land to meat their needs for the future. But as you said that's not really the issue. I don't think this is the right way to go about this. Of course they really should have gotten with the previous owner of the land and at least let him know they'd be interested in buying the land if given enough time to raise the money. It sounds to me like the owner of the land thought they'd only be willing to accept the land as a donation. Which he couldn't afford to do. I also cringed at the comments that college students were the worst type of neighbors to have. Student housing may not be the best thing to have next to you. But I don't think you can just assume that there's going to be keg parties spilling over to the National Cemetery either. But what gets me is that this is all happening after the land has already been sold. I certainly respect what veterans have done for everybody. But to me the way all of this is being handles tarnishes with what the National Cemetery is supposed to represent.

It actually hasn't been sold yet- it is under contract but the contract is contingent on it being rezoned so the complex can be built there. The veterans want to use the city to keep the owner from selling his land even though they don't have the cash to buy it. They are saying give them a year and they will have the money but it doesn't work that way with real estate. The owner has a buyer and contract now- if he has to wait a year he may end up with the current buyer walking away and the veterans still not having the money.

You're right about this not representing what the National Cemetery is supposed to be about. It's like those fine ideals apply to everyone except these landowners.

The city's own professional staff has recommended approval of the rezoning so if this makes it to court their recommendation would seem to be proof that the new zoning is compatible.

[Mith242]

With all the paid parking issues that have come up lately it's gotten the city looking more into maybe finally getting around to doing something about a parking garage in downtown Fayetteville. Sounds like right now they're looking at some areas a bit west of the Square. It would be nice to see the city start trying to move ahead on this.

I've been reading a lot about a lot of people complaining about wanting more tennis courts. I don't recall hearing too many complaints until just recently. There's been some talk about the future regional park at the Southpass development. But that could also be a number of years into the future before all of that is said and done. So a number of people are wanting the city to do something now. Not wait 5 or 10 years.

[aerotive]

With all the paid parking issues that have come up lately it's gotten the city looking more into maybe finally getting around to doing something about a parking garage in downtown Fayetteville. Sounds like right now they're looking at some areas a bit west of the Square. It would be nice to see the city start trying to move ahead on this.

I've been reading a lot about a lot of people complaining about wanting more tennis courts. I don't recall hearing too many complaints until just recently. There's been some talk about the future regional park at the Southpass development. But that could also be a number of years into the future before all of that is said and done. So a number of people are wanting the city to do something now. Not wait 5 or 10 years.

Given the city's current fiscal situation new tennis courts shouldn't be under consideration. And I say that as a tennis fan who sometimes has to play at the UA or in Springdale.

Edited July 3, 2009 by aerotive

[Mith242]

Looks like the issue of the property just east of the Natl Cemetery might have just gotten more complicated. Now some of the City Council want that part of the city to be focused on for Neighborhood Master Planning input.

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/07/...9fzsalebarn.txt