Specifics on "Ocean Square Proposal"

[vicupstate]

Well, like I've said before ... I don't have a problem with Ocean square at all. I think the proposal is nice.

But, quite frankly, I am a bit surprised that people keep gushing about this proposed movie theater. Ocean LLC has never promised that it will be first-run movies, let alone an IMAX. All we know is that the developer wants to build a single-screen 600 seat theater. How does anyone know that they won't just play old movies and special events like the Florida theater or 9th and Main already do?

Again, there's nothing wrong with that niche at all. Any new venues are good for downtown ... but I think some people are clearly jumping to conclusions and guilty of a little wishful thinking about this movie theater proposal.

Though, if I'm ever bold enough to start developing property myself - now I know that I need to vaguely promise a fancy movie theater in order to garner public support for my re-zoning requests

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the screen is three stories tall, with 600 seats, it will consume a large amount of space, that could be used for other money-making purposes. On that basis, I seriously doubt this would be second-run movies.

Also, the fact that dinner and drinks would possibly be served during the feature, makes it unique IMO. Thus, it would have the one-of-a-kind appeal that downtown attractions needed to draw in surburban residents.

[RiversideGator]

I think the theater proposal is akin to a nice, large San Marco Theater downtown, where you can watch a first run movie, eat dinner, have drinks, etc all in one place. Except this will be downtown. I am assuming a little, but this seems to be the plan.

[jacksonvillian]

Gator - I think you've got it exactly right... a larger, grander San Marco style theater.

The developer has said the movie theater-restaurant is a "done-deal" if they win the bid... They describe the movie theater and restaurant as a key to the success of the mixed-use design. In addition, the theater would definitely be a first-run and limited-release venue, either all-digital or IMAX or both if feasible...

I've sat in on some of the discussions, and this group is serious about this project and its success.

Nobody is going to invest 42 million and rerun old movies or serve hamburgers!

[afh]

Gator - I think you've got it exactly right... a larger, grander San Marco style theater.

The developer has said the movie theater-restaurant is a "done-deal" if they win the bid... They describe the movie theater and restaurant as a key to the success of the mixed-use design. In addition, the theater would definitely be a first-run and limited-release venue, either all-digital or IMAX or both if feasible...

I've sat in on some of the discussions, and this group is serious about this project and its success.

Nobody is going to invest 42 million and rerun old movies or serve hamburgers!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the restaurant, is it a mix of a "upscale" nightclub/restaurant? I got that impression from your post above. Do they envision one part of the venue being a restaurant and the other section housing a "upscale" nightclub?

[jacksonvillian]

So the restaurant, is it a mix of a "upscale" nightclub/restaurant?  I got that impression from your post above.  Do they envision one part of the venue being a restaurant and the other section housing a "upscale" nightclub?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe so yes... as far as the restaurant goes, it would be very upscale with club/bar type elements... not a kiddie club.

[RiversideGator]

By the way, according to Folio, the announcement date for the winner of the library bids is this Friday, June 17.

[afh]

I believe so yes... as far as the restaurant goes, it would be very upscale with club/bar type elements... not a kiddie club.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like clubs where there are 18, 19, 20 yr old women! And it doesn't hurt if the club is upscale.

[Viper]

2 more days, great.

I wasn't expecting them just yet so this is nice.

[jacksonvillian]

News Flash...

The Ocean Square developer will be sending out a press release with a new rendering late tomorrow afternoon, just in time for the review by the JEDC on Friday.

If anybody can get their hands on this, post it!

[BosTech]

Times-Union just came up with article on Peterbrook,sounds fishy to me like they alredy decided fate of library and this articles is just another warning.

[bobliocatt]

Here's an updated rendering of Ocean Square. It looks pretty good in color, but I had some problems with the file. So this pic is a last resort effort to get you guys the photo before today's decision at 9am.

[asonj23]

The whole article was kissing Peterbrooke's rear end. The whole thing does sound a little fishy to me too. My vote still holds strong for Ocean Square who holds all of the positives for the community and was willing to make a fair offer on the property.

Peterbrooke (whom I think should DEFINITELY move downtown) should put more thought into a more "retail oriented" section of town such as the Town Center or perhaps the Landing. Plus parking would be a bit more accessible in those areas already geared or in the process of gearing up for large amounts of people. IMO if Sleighman would pull some strings to anchor Peterbrooke at Landing when/if the overhaul happens it would benefit the downtown revitalization much more and probably prove very profitable. More people would visit the chocolate factory if it were adjacent many other places to visit on foot.

[asonj23]

Here's an updated rendering of Ocean Square. It looks pretty good in color, but I had some problems with the file. So this pic is a last resort effort to get you guys the photo before today's decision at 9am.

WOW!!! Now that is great!! It doesn't block the views from 11E either. Jacksonville needs much, much more of this!

Thanks for the post Lakelander.

[bobliocatt]

^The thanks goes to Jacksonvillian. I'll post it in color, later on, if I can figure out what the problem is between the file and our computer system.

[crazy cuban]

not so sure if this what Jacksonville really needs, because there is nothing better than going from bad to worse? hate to tell you, but its not blocking the views from 11 East, because the perspective of the drawing is way off... whether that is done on purpose, i'm not saying>>> but there is no way a building of that size could be built on the site and not block most if not all of the views from 11 East. to me the building just looks out of place. looks like it landed here while on a trip from Boston or NY, the first time i have seen a "snowbird" building? I agree that it contains all the amenities that we are looking for in a downtown complex, but the language is all wrong. as for Peterbrooke, could someone please mention to them the wonderful vacant land available downtown for new development?? instead of occupying an existing building, they could add to the fabric of the city.

[bobliocatt]

I really do hope an effort is made by the city to lead the groups not chosen to other sites in downtown. I believe there's several alternative spots for whoever isn't chosen, regardless of if it contains a specialty grocery market, movie theater/big box retail or chocolate factory and museum. As for Vestcor and The Fund......thanks, but no thanks.

[Captain Obvious]

could someone please mention to them the wonderful vacant land available downtown for new development??  instead of occupying an existing building, they could add to the fabric of the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's basically my argument about Ocean Square. It's okay, but why not build it on nearby vacant land - which they could actually buy for cheaper than the 5 million they will pay for the library.

As for Peterbrooke ... it is painfully clear that the Peterbrooke owners must be good friends with someone at the Times-Union. There is no other reason for the insane angle of that story.

[jjoshjl]

Cuban...

I understand where you are coming from, however, respectfully disagree...

ANY building that properly uses that land will block some views for 11E. It is an unfortuanant side effect of being in an uban Downtown area. But whats nice is that once you get a nice sized DT, the views out of the window become less interested in the river, and more on the neighborhood itself. If you got he the 11E site, the view out of the 6th floor for one of the one bedrooms is amazing. Not because it looks to the river, but because it looks back to the laura street trio and the carling. That direction. At that Level, looking in that direction, its an amazing view that makes JAX dowtone look huge. I agree peterbrook should be downtown, in one of the vacant lots though, not the library site. (for example... the surface Parking lot accross from the florida theater/main library... I HATE that lot 1) because tis so out of place, and 2) I jsut realy didnt likeone of the people that was running it one day. She was jsut rude... But thats a personal thing. I dunno maybe she had a bad day)

But seriously, Bring on a new mid/highrise on that spot...

It only adds to the over all effect.

Cheers

[Captain Obvious]

for example...  the surface Parking lot accross from the florida theater/main library...  I HATE that lot 1) because tis so out of place,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate that lot too. It's actually for sale (or at least it was last month). Who knows how many millions they are asking for it.

Anyone want to form an LLC with me and buy it? We can put a tower there much taller than Ocean Square

[bobliocatt]

That's basically my argument about Ocean Square. It's okay, but why not build it on nearby vacant land - which they could actually buy for cheaper than the 5 million they will pay for the library.

As for Peterbrooke ... it is painfully clear that the Peterbrooke owners must be good friends with someone at the Times-Union. There is no other reason for the insane angle of that story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. An argument can be made for Ocean Square to acquire the lot across the street thats for sale. It gives access to the same streets, infills an important block that's probably much cheaper, has frontage to a well maintained pocket park and is across the street from the Florida Theater. We could have our very own mini-theater district.

[Dale]

I love Ocean Square.

Hence, it will not be chosen.

[merlin]

Cuban - I couldn't agree more. The thing looks like it belongs at the St. Johns Town Center. I am all for the intended program of the group, that all is peachy,but the architecture is way off. It is trying way to hard to stick to some stylinzed view towncenter meets berkman meets carling meets lord knows what.

As for Peterbrooke - defintely come downtown but the Landing IMO would be one of the prime areas if the production of chocolate is truly going to be a "publicly toured" event. put it fronting the river so that passers by on the river walk at any given time on any given day can see into it. Also gives a boater view inside too - embrace the river. Or there is plenty of land/parking to be purchased or other buildings are for sale too.

[vicupstate]

As for Peterbrooke ... it is painfully clear that the Peterbrooke owners must be good friends with someone at the Times-Union. There is no other reason for the insane angle of that story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did we read the same article? To me the story blew holes in Peterbrooke's pie-in-the-sky projections. To me it was a warning to the JEDC, on the morning of the vote, that if they pick Peterbrooke, that they will have a lot of explaining to do.

The article points out that the "study" was done by someone that would gain financially from the plan if it is implemented. Lots of credibility there. It brought to light that St. Augustine, an area already known to tourism, already has a chocalote factory. It pointed out that HERSHEY, a name synonyous with Chocalote does not get that many vistors to it's factory/musuem. The Jax Zoo gets probably 7-10 times the visitors in a year as the HERSHEY facility, Hershey Theme park excluded of course

The article also mentions that Peterbrooke has been talking their line for years already.

The Peterbrooke folks remind me of the Trilegacy group. Trying to be something they haven't yet proven they can be, and expect a taxpayer subsidy to do it.

Peterbrooke may get the nod, but not because they deserve it. That's what I took from the article.

[crazy cuban]

Cuban...

I understand where you are coming from, however, respectfully disagree...

ANY building that properly uses that land will block some views for 11E. It is an unfortuanant side effect of being in an uban Downtown area. But whats nice is that once you get a nice sized DT, the views out of the window become less interested in the river, and more on the neighborhood itself. If you got he the 11E site, the view out of the 6th floor for one of the one bedrooms is amazing. Not because it looks to the river, but because it looks back to the laura street trio and the carling. That direction. At that Level, looking in that direction, its an amazing view that makes JAX dowtone look huge. I agree peterbrook should be downtown, in one of the vacant lots though, not the library site. (for example...  the surface Parking lot accross from the florida theater/main library...  I HATE that lot 1) because tis so out of place, and 2) I jsut realy didnt likeone of the people that was running it one day. She was jsut rude...  But thats a personal thing. I dunno maybe she had a bad day)

But seriously, Bring on a new mid/highrise on that spot...

It only adds to the over all effect.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

disagreement is what makes the country wonderful, but in actuality, i don't think we are disagreeing. i know that views will be blocked and that is of course one of those unfortunate consequences of urban living. the comment was directed to another post that mentioned otherwise. i agree, we need more mid-rise apartments and condos in downtown, and if the library site is the place that is going to happen, then so be it. i am just dismayed at the language of the architecture>>> i feel is is inappropriate for the area?? believe me, i would love to see all of the vacant lots in town to be built out. more bars and lounges!! more restaurants!! let's just use the right language... whether you're a modernist or a Klutho addict or want to reinvent the "florida cracker" language>>> they are all much better than some "new england" anomoly??? let's build!! i have never believed that there is such a parking problem in Downtown that we would need surface parking! as Tony said>>> it's not a parking probelm, it's a walking problem.

[jjoshjl]

Cool deal Crazy...

By the way...

Raise your hand if you are hovering in here waitning on the results...

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M

Feels like we are waiting in a hospital for a newborn...