Raleigh Skyline

[JacksonH]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

In fact I would rather live in the Triangle region over a Nashville or Austin any day.  

First of all, thanks RALNATIVE and dmccall for all the great suggestions.  It's much appreciated!  Now a question that's been on my mind and I'm reminded of by KJHburg's comment.  And maybe this should be moved to another tread (?), but  it seems these days that everybody is competing with Austin - - Raleigh vs. Austin,  Charlotte vs. Austin,  Nashville vs. Austin.  I've never been there myself but everyone I know who has been there has only told me good things.  The closest I've been to being in Austin was a "Google drive" through the entertainment district (8th Street?), which seems like the ideal zone of historic buildings with architectural charm and lots of street activity with music and food and vibrance.  And being the state capital and home to UT, I would expect plenty of culture and a highly educated population.  I'm constantly reading about major companies moving there.  All that said, for anyone who has been there before, do you prefer Raleigh more and, if so, why?

[KJHburg]

I was in Austin in October, Nashville in September and in Raleigh in December and of course I live in Charlotte.

Just as Charlotte is a better size and more manageable than an Atlanta for example, Raleigh Durham is better size and more manageable than an Austin.  Raleigh Durham has multiple cities that offer various lifestyles.  Raleigh the capital city, offers intown neighborhoods and some high rises but doe not feel overwhelming.  Austin has a 2nd downtown in the Dominion north of downtown, just as Raleigh has a 2nd downtown in North Hills Midtown.  Both are tech and government and college towns (and I am including all the major universities in the Triangle region)  Raleigh Durham has the bio pharma that Austin really does not have at all.  Downtown Austin more like uptown Charlotte.  Austin has a lot of transportation problems and lots of traffic.  They have passed a multibillion transit just passed.  However I think this will do little for traffic.  As is the case with Raleigh Durham the jobs in Austin are very spread out.  Apple and Dell 2 of the biggest employers are way north of Austin for example.  Austin fought the TxDOT in building new highways and Texas can build them let me tell you and their thinking if you build more roads and highways more people will come.  Well they came anyway and heavy traffic is all directions in Austin.   To pay for this transit plan Austin will raise its property taxes already the highest in the state even more.  Just as Cary is different than Durham or Chapel Hill or Inside the Beltline in Raleigh or north Raleigh the Triangle offers a lot of different type of neighborhoods in all budgets.  

Sure big tech has many operations in Austin but the same came be said for Raleigh Durham (and remember Apple itself owns a chunk of acreage in RTP for some future operation)   Austin is very popular with Californians and Silicon Valley types but Raleigh Durham is popular with California tech and biopharma too.  

all that being said I still prefer Raleigh Durham over an Austin any day and twice on Sunday. 

Photos Raleigh in December 1/2 

Austin in October 3/4/5

[dmccall]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:05 PM, JacksonH said:

First of all, thanks RALNATIVE and dmccall for all the great suggestions.  It's much appreciated!  Now a question that's been on my mind and I'm reminded of by KJHburg's comment.  And maybe this should be moved to another tread (?), but  it seems these days that everybody is competing with Austin - - Raleigh vs. Austin,  Charlotte vs. Austin,  Nashville vs. Austin.  I've never been there myself but everyone I know who has been there has only told me good things.  The closest I've been to being in Austin was a "Google drive" through the entertainment district (8th Street?), which seems like the ideal zone of historic buildings with architectural charm and lots of street activity with music and food and vibrance.  And being the state capital and home to UT, I would expect plenty of culture and a highly educated population.  I'm constantly reading about major companies moving there.  All that said, for anyone who has been there before, do you prefer Raleigh more and, if so, why?

We visited Austin 7yrs ago for a few days and really enjoyed it. We walked and drove around UT, drove by the capitol, spent a couple of hours at Pinballz, went to Barton Springs, went out on S. Congress, went to the home Whole Foods Store(awesome), did 4th of July from a condo on a high floor, paid my respects at the SRV statue, toured and sang onstage at the ACL Live concert venue (audience of 2), took in the cool LP-oriented lounge in the W, walked through the original Schlotsky's and Chuey's, saw the office building where the final scene in Office Space was filmed, saw a band at the Continental, Waterloo Records, drove 90mph to Black's Barbecue (Lockhart, TX) in a rented Kia,  drank in the Rainey St area, and ate and ate and ate (Home Slice pizza, Guero's, Tacodeli, Lick Ice Cream, and the incredible Uchi) I ate tacos at 11 different places in 3 days.  We also did 8th St, but it was pretty much the yahoo "hey bro" kind of crowd.

Hard to compare the cities. On paper Raleigh and Austin seem similar, but it didn't remind me much of Raleigh. The layout of the city is completely different.  Atlanta's layout reminds me more of Raleigh. I think there are more tourist things to do in Austin, but I'd rather raise a family in Raleigh because it has seasons, is close to the beaches and mountains, and is reasonably close to Washington.  I really like that we have so many good universities around here instead of one big boy. I also felt like we saw many more crappy rundown retail areas in Austin than we see driving through Raleigh. Raleigh is definitely greener and more wooded.

There are certainly more live music venues in Austin (there was a band playing at our airport gate) than Raleigh, however Adam Curry contends that the live music thing there is overblown, and that Nashville is truly the live music capital.

Austin has a lot more money. The rumor going round is that Kendra Scott's husband has made a bunch of money, so they just moved into their $20million house. WIthin a month a realtor contacted them and asked them how much it would take for them to part with it. Someone had bought the land next to it and wanted to tear down the new $20M house. Kendra and her husband said, $85million and the agent said they'd get a check to them the following day. There is a $5 million house inside Raleigh's beltline that just went on the market. Nobody I know sees this house selling for at least a year.

One interesting difference is the racial profiles. Both have the same proportion of white people, but the Hispanic and Black portions are flipped. The cities are different politically, too. Raleigh is a left city, but Austin is more hard left, and getting moreso as it is the landing spot for so many Californian transplants. Austin has more creative types who love things that are "gritty". While Austin has many tech jobs, I feel like Raleigh is a bit more of a nerdistan, but I could be wrong.

This is a great topic you raised. I look forward to reading others' impressions.

Edited December 18, 2020 by dmccall

[JacksonH]

Wow, dmccall, thank you for that.  You have given a good understanding/feeling for this place that I've never seen.  And I'm really impressed with all the details you remember about a trip you took seven years ago!  That at least tells me it's a fun and memorable place to visit whether or not you'd actually want to live there.

[JacksonH]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:33 PM, KJHburg said:

 

Pictures I've seen in the past of DT Austin didn't look anything like that!  It looks like they've had quite the building boom.

Your comments have reminded me of things I have heard about Austin traffic.  That is the one negative I have heard about, the the infrastructure cannot handle the growth they have had.  I wonder if that's the same in Raleigh?  I remember driving on the freeway between Raleigh and Durham when I was there in the '90s and thinking how pretty and peaceful and relaxing that drive was.

[KJHburg]

21 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

Pictures I've seen in the past of DT Austin didn't look anything like that!  It looks like they've had quite the building boom.

Your comments have reminded me of things I have heard about Austin traffic.  That is the one negative I have heard about, the the infrastructure cannot handle the growth they have had.  I wonder if that's the same in Raleigh?  I remember driving on the freeway between Raleigh and Durham when I was there in the '90s and thinking how pretty and peaceful and relaxing that drive was.

the drive on I-40 is not as peaceful as it once was but they have 540 toll road and I-540 and lots of new non expressways routes.  I think Wake County in particular does a good job of connecting roads into longer roads.  Traffic pre pandemic was not as bad as in Charlotte, Nashville or Austin by any means.  I noticed the rush hour in the Triangle seems to be shorter than in Charlotte pre-pandemic.  Looking forward to your impressions of this 2 million population Raleigh Durham metro. 

[SydneyCarton]

I know this isn't a popular perspective, but I prefer downtown Chapel Hill to downtown Raleigh.  The buildings on the UNC campus that are adjacent to Franklin Street are so beautiful, and Franklin Street almost has the vibe of M Street in Georgetown, though not as fancy.  I think that Chapel Hill is the Triangle location to see if a visitor is pressed for time.  Raleigh is just another small to medium-size city, like Columbus, Ohio, Knoxville, Tennessee, Madison, Wisconsin, Memphis, TN, or Columbia, SC, but Chapel Hill is one of the great college towns in America.

I was initially  reluctant to leave Charlotte for Chapel Hill, but I’ve really come to appreciate how extraordinary CH is.

Edited December 26, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Jones_]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:05 PM, JacksonH said:

First of all, thanks RALNATIVE and dmccall for all the great suggestions.  It's much appreciated!  Now a question that's been on my mind and I'm reminded of by KJHburg's comment.  And maybe this should be moved to another tread (?), but  it seems these days that everybody is competing with Austin - - Raleigh vs. Austin,  Charlotte vs. Austin,  Nashville vs. Austin.  I've never been there myself but everyone I know who has been there has only told me good things.  The closest I've been to being in Austin was a "Google drive" through the entertainment district (8th Street?), which seems like the ideal zone of historic buildings with architectural charm and lots of street activity with music and food and vibrance.  And being the state capital and home to UT, I would expect plenty of culture and a highly educated population.  I'm constantly reading about major companies moving there.  All that said, for anyone who has been there before, do you prefer Raleigh more and, if so, why?

I spent a week in Austin about 5 years ago and really liked it, but stayed either in the downtown or in areas immediately east or south of downtown. Like Raleigh, it was a smaller State Capitol for most of its existence, then blew up in the last 50 years. The recent growth is more like Charlotte though but with more like an Asheville free spirit underlaying vibe. Those two cultures are knocking heads for sure. East Austin is gentrifying but was the center of life that resembles west Asheville. It still has that feel but the new big box apartment buildings are looking for ways in that will ultimately displace and ruin it. The area around the Capital and the main drag south of there is sort of dead-ish but interesting to me since much of the historic fabric remains. The downtown high-rise district is a little better than Charlotte because it has more grand floor stuff going on but is still swamped with parking garages and traffic. South of downtown is trendiest area with lots of recognizable shopping names and tons of high income neighborhoods that are a mix of older redone houses and new mod stuff. The east side had some of that, but its much more the defining trait south of Lady Bird. Speaking of Lady Bird, its got a nice loop trail around it...heavily used, but a dirt trail all the same. Also Barton Springs is pretty cool and, of course, tops are not required. Dirty Sixth makes Glenwood south look like a tea party. Its more resembles Broadway in Nashville but with less touristy feel and more straight up gutter style getting wasted. I never did get out in the far flung 'burbs or up near the University so can't speak to those too much. I much preferred it to Nashville and Charlotte...it has something for everyone, but then again, that might be too much for some people. It certainly has all of the growth issues. Would love to visit again sometime. 

[JacksonH]

On 12/19/2020 at 11:36 AM, SydneyCarton said:

I know this isn't a popular perspective, but I prefer downtown Chapel Hill to downtown Raleigh.  The buildings on the UNC campus that are adjacent to Franklin Street are so beautiful, and Franklin Street almost has the vibe of M Street in Georgetown, though not as fancy.  I think that Chapel Hill is the Triangle location to see if a visitor is pressed for time.  Raleigh is just another small to medium-size city, like Columbus, Ohio, Knoxville, Tennessee, Madison, Wisconsin, or Columbia, SC, but Chapel Hill is one of the great college towns in America.

I was initially  reluctant to leave Charlotte for Chapel Hill, but I’ve really come to appreciate how extraordinary CH 

I have to say I agree with you *completely*.  I did my Triangle tour yesterday.  I started out in Raleigh, driving in from North Hills off of 440.  I went up Hillsborough St. to NC State, over to Five Points, then around the downtown area including the historic old market (can't remember what it's called).  And finally over to Pullen Park.  I thought it was all quite beautiful.  Loved it.  Then I traveled over to Durham, which I expected to be a dump but was pleasantly surprised.  Both DT Raleigh and DT Durham were fairly quiet but nonetheless very attractive areas.  I also visited American Tobacco and Brightleaf (great aesthetic but not much happening). 

Then from there I went to Chapel Hill and was totally wowed by that area.  I thought the very same thing you did: it reminded me so much of Georgetown.  I was also impressed with the new construction along Franklin St.  It blends in so beautifully with the old and doesn't overwhelm with height, which would destroy the appeal.  (I recently posted a video on the Ellis thread in the Charlotte forum about creating the most beautiful cities and it warned against buildings greater than five stories as they will destroy the urban aesthetics, which I fear is now happening to South End, but Chapel Hill obviously learned that lesson.)  Franklin St., IMO, is the best urban street in all of North Carolina, though I haven't been to Asheville in years, so maybe that would change my mind, but right now Chapel Hill rules.  And a close contender was my final stop yesterday:  Hillsborough.  Wow!  I was completely enchanted by that town.  The next time I'm in the Triangle are I intend to spend it taking in Chapel Hill, Carrboro and Hillsborough.  Maybe Raleigh for the museums.

[JacksonH]

If anyone is interested, here's the video I was referencing.  Note in particular the segment between 8:27 to 9:49.  Beautiful Chapel Hill clearly passes the test.  

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by JacksonH

[SydneyCarton]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:30 AM, JacksonH said:

I have to say I agree with you *completely*.  I did my Triangle tour yesterday.  I started out in Raleigh, driving in from North Hills off of 440.  I went up Hillsborough St. to NC State, over to Five Points, then around the downtown area including the historic old market (can't remember what it's called).  And finally over to Pullen Park.  I thought it was all quite beautiful.  Loved it.  Then I traveled over to Durham, which I expected to be a dump but was pleasantly surprised.  Both DT Raleigh and DT Durham were fairly quiet but nonetheless very attractive areas.  I also visited American Tobacco and Brightleaf (great aesthetic but not much happening). 

Then from there I went to Chapel Hill and was totally wowed by that area.  I thought the very same thing you did: it reminded me so much of Georgetown.  I was also impressed with the new construction along Franklin St.  It blends in so beautifully with the old and doesn't overwhelm with height, which would destroy the appeal.  (I recently posted a video on the Ellis thread in the Charlotte forum about creating the most beautiful cities and it warned against buildings greater than five stories as they will destroy the urban aesthetics, which I fear is now happening to South End, but Chapel Hill obviously learned that lesson.)  Franklin St., IMO, is the best urban street in all of North Carolina, though I haven't been to Asheville in years, so maybe that would change my mind, but right now Chapel Hill rules.  And a close contender was my final stop yesterday:  Hillsborough.  Wow!  I was completely enchanted by that town.  The next time I'm in the Triangle are I intend to spend it taking in Chapel Hill, Carrboro and Hillsborough.  Maybe Raleigh for the museums.

Chapel Hill is amazing.   When you approach downtown, via Franklin Street, all of the old houses are really beautiful, and then you arrive to UNC and downtown, which are quite nice.

Chapel Hill is a very unique town, as is Asheville.  I agree about Hillsborough too.  Its downtown is really charming. 

As noted, I did not want to leave Charlotte to come here, but I now regard Chapel Hill as the jewel of North Carolina, and fortunately, Charlotte is only two hours away so I can visit a lot.  (I really love Asheville, but it's too isolated from everything, and the winters are harsher too.)

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Jones_]

On 12/19/2020 at 11:36 AM, SydneyCarton said:

I know this isn't a popular perspective, but I prefer downtown Chapel Hill to downtown Raleigh.  The buildings on the UNC campus that are adjacent to Franklin Street are so beautiful, and Franklin Street almost has the vibe of M Street in Georgetown, though not as fancy.  I think that Chapel Hill is the Triangle location to see if a visitor is pressed for time.  Raleigh is just another small to medium-size city, like Columbus, Ohio, Knoxville, Tennessee, Madison, Wisconsin, Memphis, TN, or Columbia, SC, but Chapel Hill is one of the great college towns in America.

I was initially  reluctant to leave Charlotte for Chapel Hill, but I’ve really come to appreciate how extraordinary CH is.

I love me some Knoxville. Seriously thinking about retiring there and taking my big Raleigh money and buying a house outright. Between the university and Oakridge, its not a backwater by any means but prices are low and out of state developers 'can't make the numbers work'. I hope they never make those numbers work. I've heard Madison is cool too. 

[KJHburg]

will this be the year an up to 40 story building is started in downtown Raleigh?  I still think there should be some areas of downtown Raleigh that can have buildings of any height by right no rezoning needed. 

2020 Rewind: Raleigh goes vertical as 40-story flirtation continues - Triangle Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

[carolina1792]

On 12/30/2020 at 10:06 AM, KJHburg said:

will this be the year an up to 40 story building is started in downtown Raleigh?  I still think there should be some areas of downtown Raleigh that can have buildings of any height by right no rezoning needed. 

2020 Rewind: Raleigh goes vertical as 40-story flirtation continues - Triangle Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

The developers of the 32-story 121 Fayetteville are confident they will start construction in 2021. So probably but when in 2021 remains to be seen. City of Raleigh should find a way to encourage condo development. When's the last condo tower (over 7 floors) built in Raleigh?  

[KJHburg]

121 Fayetteville has updated their website

121 Fayetteville Raleigh | Premier Office in Raleigh

with Kane handling the leasing they may wait on their own proposed towers to see how this one leases up.  This is a great looking tower.  How tall in feet will it be?  

Durham's Duda Paine designs good looking buildings! 

Edited January 1, 2021 by KJHburg

[carolina1792]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

121 Fayetteville has updated their website

121 Fayetteville Raleigh | Premier Office in Raleigh

with Kane handling the leasing they may wait on their own proposed towers to see how this one leases up.  This is a great looking tower.  How tall in feet will it be?  

Durham's Duda Paine designs good looking buildings! 

414 feet last I heard but that was pre-redesign but I don't expect the height to change much. It will be the 3rd tallest building in Raleigh once built.  

 

 

[SydneyCarton]

[RALNATIVE]

4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

Hopefully whatever ends up being built on this parcel is a high rise. Too many small scale buildings lately are occupying prime downtown land.

 

[RALNATIVE]

Best money shot that i've seen lately.

 

[Rufus]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:18 PM, RALNATIVE said:

Best money shot that i've seen lately.

 

It's 2-3 years out of date. Missing the Residence Inn and FNB. 

[dmccall]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:58 PM, RALNATIVE said:

 

Hopefully whatever ends up being built on this parcel is a high rise. Too many small scale buildings lately are occupying prime downtown land.

 

It's such a tiny little plot of land!

[KJHburg]

Skyline shots yesterday and today.  From all angles and I like that Wilmington St view and of course the Boylan St bridge view.  

If the SECU can build a high rise (2nd largest credit union in the country) how about the 10th largest bank First Citizen?  Come on anchor a 40 story tower downtown somewhere raise your profile and show you are a big boy bank now.  

I love that round Holiday Inn it is a classic.  

 

[Rufus]

20 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

If the SECU can build a high rise (2nd largest credit union in the country) how about the 10th largest bank First Citizen?  Come on anchor a 40 story tower downtown somewhere raise your profile and show you are a big boy bank now.  

FCB notoriously pulled up stakes in DTR back in 1992, moving out to North Hills where they have a pretty extensive semi-campus/skyline campus. I'm not sure they will ever want to come back to DTR. Their demographic is North Hills, and with BOA moving their offices from DTR to NH just a couple years ago, I think we are seeing that become the spot for FCB to stay. That being said, they could be better civic stewards than they have historically been. 

[RALNATIVE]

54 minutes ago, Rufus said:

FCB notoriously pulled up stakes in DTR back in 1992, moving out to North Hills where they have a pretty extensive semi-campus/skyline campus. I'm not sure they will ever want to come back to DTR. Their demographic is North Hills, and with BOA moving their offices from DTR to NH just a couple years ago, I think we are seeing that become the spot for FCB to stay. That being said, they could be better civic stewards than they have historically been. 

FCB is a very, very conservative bank. They have their roots in JoCo for god's sake.

It seems that they want the cachet of being located in Raleigh, without the responsibility of being a good corporate citizen and philanthropist.

Edited June 14, 2021 by RALNATIVE

[KJHburg]

Even more proposals for two 40 story towers downtown.  someone needs to compile a list of all these up to 40 story rezonings.  I just want at least one to break ground.

City Plat: Developers want to build two 40-story towers in downtown Raleigh's Warehouse District - ABC11 Raleigh-Durham

Edited June 15, 2021 by KJHburg