Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[kickazzz2000]

WN will not be in CLT {in regards of a focus city} for a while unless we get a new terminal.

Which is pretty much what I said.

I suppose Airtran and JetBlue are getting their azzes handed to them as well?

What changes would you make to the master plan?

Thanks for posting the article, we all read it the first time it was posted.

[northernbizzkit1]

LCC= USAirways

WN= Southwest

B6=jet blue

UAL=United Airlines

F9= Frontier

LCC stands for Low-Cost Carrier. The USAirways codename is simply US.

[moving uptown]

LCC stands for Low-Cost Carrier. The USAirways codename is simply US.

lcc is also usair stock symbol

[northernbizzkit1]

lcc is also usair stock symbol

ahh, gotcha. my bad...sorry, with WN and F9 thrown in the mix, i was like, "wait, those are LCCs too!" haha, sorry

[rockhilljames]

Just a side note here. I fly out of Charlotte at least twice a month, and fly USAir most of the time. I think their dividends miles program stinks. 25,000 miles before you become preferred? Are you kidding me? It takes forever to get one free ticket as well.

As for ontime....well, let's just say that I'm starting to feel like I can show up at the airport 30 minutes later than usual and still not miss my flight. My last 6 flights have been delayed.

I would welcome the added competition.

Does anyone know what the latest numbers for O/D are for Charlotte and how they compare to other regional airports? It has been very busy so far this year and I have a hard time believing that we're not at or above Raleigh for the year.

[cinco]

Just a side note here. I fly out of Charlotte at least twice a month, and fly USAir most of the time. I think their dividends miles program stinks. 25,000 miles before you become preferred? Are you kidding me? It takes forever to get one free ticket as well.

man, you ain't kidding... i quit trying to save for a free ticket a long time ago - i haven't had to buy a magazine since.

[Ryepow]

In regards to CLT's O&D figures vs RDU's. Unless I am looking at the wrong figures CLT past RDU in O&D stats. According to RDU's website they had 9,422,122 passenger Enplanements and Deplanements in 2006. According to CLT's website CLT had 14,865,800 passenger enplanements and Deplanements in 2006. Total passengers including connecting at CLT was 29,693,949 in 2006. 18th nationwide.

[uptownliving]

Charlotte's O&D numbers for 2006 were close to 9M for 2006....I beleive the numbers you posted are for all traffic at CLT not just O&D.

[uptownliving]

I did Not hear a rumor but I did see a press release where a executive was quoted about WN interest of going to London.

I never said WN would be interested in doing CLT-London *unless* they "infest" Charlotte terminals.

In today's Earnings Release Conference Call the CEO of SWA stated that Trans-Atlantic flights are a "very low priority...high risk." The CEO made it very clear that it was not something SWA would be doing anytime soon if at all. It was also stated that SWA would not have the ability to do any international flights much less trans atlantic until 2009 due to limits in their reservation software.

Edited April 20, 2007 by uptownliving

[monsoon]

Indeed. Lets keep in mind the capital costs of a couple of new planes equipped for trans-oceanic flights can cost 1/2 billion dollars and this is just to get the planes. There are lots of other costs with an operation of a route such as this so they have to sell a hell of a lot of seats to justify the investment.

On top of that, overseas routes compete nationally instead of regionally because most people will have to make a connecting flight first to get to the plane. What that means is if you live in a place such as Columbia, then it really doesn't make any difference if you fly Delta out of ATL or USA out of CLT if you are going to London. The time is almost the same so the party will shop price. Especially if they are not a frequent flyer. This means that prices for overseas flights are very competitive.

[atlrvr]

And prices will be coming down even further, with the Open Skies agreement. Ryanair will be launching transatlantic trips with a few seats per flight as low as $14 per trip!!! Of course the majority will be more, pricing for them, and other international budget airlines such as flyglobespan will be in the $300-$400 roundtrip range.

[mallguy]

Just a side note here. I fly out of Charlotte at least twice a month, and fly USAir most of the time. I think their dividends miles program stinks. 25,000 miles before you become preferred? Are you kidding me? It takes forever to get one free ticket as well.

As for ontime....well, let's just say that I'm starting to feel like I can show up at the airport 30 minutes later than usual and still not miss my flight. My last 6 flights have been delayed.

I would welcome the added competition.

Does anyone know what the latest numbers for O/D are for Charlotte and how they compare to other regional airports? It has been very busy so far this year and I have a hard time believing that we're not at or above Raleigh for the year.

Beats LaGuardia- and I'm Preferred; there are so many people who fly a lot more than 25,000 miles/year that there would be so many zillions of Preferreds if anyone could get it for under 25k miles and then the benefits of upgrades, shorter lines, etc. wouldn't really be worth anything. I flew over 100,000 miles a year for a few years and I didn't always get upgraded, for example, because there are still tons of people at that level. 25k/year to become Preferred is in line with other major airlines.

[Raintree21]

Any further word on the airport's quest for a new tower to replace the 30 year old current one? Think it could be lumped in with the federal grants that are helping pay for the 4th runway? The Observer reports that a delegation was up in Washington last week lobbying for help with a bigger and better control tower.

[monsoon]

It would appear that Jerry Orr's decision to locate the new runway where it is going to go, will result in the clearing and flattening of 505 acres of forested land and greenfield land. That's the size of about 450 football fields. The runway could have been located closer in where it would not have been as destructive to the environment and actually might be more useful to the airlines since the currently plan locates it far away from the terminal. Even better they could have decided not to build it in the first place.

This will be one of the most ecologically damaging projects in Charlotte in the first part of the 21st century. This is an a city that is already plagued with environmental problems.

[lptk]

I believe the reason for the separation is to meet requirements for simultaneous takeoff and landing. There must be >4300ft between the runways to meet this requirement. So assuming the need for another runway (I gather you don't agree with this premise), it makes sense where possible to place them far enough apart to maximize potential capacity for more benefit from the cost.

[uptownliving]

Something else to note is that because of all the wetlands and streams this project will destroy they were required to buy wetland/stream credits which will go to pay for wetland and stream restoration in other parts of the County and State. They spent almost $2M to buy these credits.

This runway will completely change the environment on that side of town but I still agree with the City's decision to build it. It will save the airline's millions of dollars each year in fuel costs and that translates into less exhaust coming from airplanes just idling on the runway or waiting to land in Charlotte.

[Miesian Corners]

It will also mitigate the noise abatement problems with take offs and landings late at night and on Sunday mornings. Aircraft can currently use only one runway during those times creating delays and wasting fuel while circling.

[monsoon]

I can't imagine there would be a need for more than 1 runway during those periods. Almost anyway you put it, it is an environmentally bad decision for the city to do something such as this. In Europe they encourage people not to fly because jets dump so much carbon into the atmosphere. Here they are still stripping the environment to accommodate this industry. I guess we have much longer time to go before we could be considered green here.

[Raintree21]

There's no decision to be made because I believe it's already been done (the clearing of the land that is). Or at least a large portion of it. And lptk is right, the reason behind the runway being so far away from the others is so that simultaneous takeoff/landings can occur. There are also plans on putting the new railroad stock yards in between the new and old runways. On another note, I recall seeing something about the new runway only being used during inclement weather because it would burn up more fuel to taxi out to it as it would to sit and wait in line for the other runways so the airlines don't want to use it. Not sure if that's true or not.

I have also heard that the city will either have to relocate it's current fire station (currently at the Air National Guard building) or move another station (CFD #30 which is currently on the southside of the airport) to the west side of the airport in order to be in compliance with FAA rules on response to aircraft emergencies. Having this 3rd runway increases their response times incredibly.

I think I remember also reading that Jerry Orr was looking at expanding the terminal again as well. So hopefully, a larger airport that is growing with leaps and bounds with a new tower to handle capacity and a railroad depot in the middle of it will attract more business to Charlotte and maybe some corporate relocations.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Raintree21

[28202]

Relocating the freight yard also frees up 40+ acres just outside of uptown near Optimist Park and NODA.

[uptownliving]

The FAA did a study on the Charlotte airport about the 3rd Parallel runway. In that study they looked at all the alternatives for locating the 3rd Parallel and the one that created the most cost savings and increased capacity the most was the location the airport went with. The FAA projects the 3rd Parallel will save 15,071 hours and $40M every year for the airlines that use our airport. The FAA is the one that controls the traffic flow in and out of Charlotte and tells the airplanes which runway to use. The airlines don't have much choice in the matter. The 3rd Parallel runway will be used primarily for landings.

[nyxmike]

How close will the runway be to 485? Will it be visible from the highway?

[uptownliving]

For those of you that rent cars at the airport they are looking at tacking on another fee. $3.50 per day per car rented from one of the onsite rental car facilities. This fee will raise about $7M per year which will go towards the construction of a new consolidated rental car facility. All the rental car companies prefer the consolidated facility be put in the lower levels of new parking decks located adjacent to the terminal. If City Council approves this fee it would go into effect this summer.

[uptownliving]

How close will the runway be to 485? Will it be visible from the highway?

The new runway will be about 800ft from 485. It will not be visable from 485 because the highway is below grade at that point.

[Raintree21]

The new runway will be about 800ft from 485. It will not be visable from 485 because the highway is below grade at that point.

I'm sure that will be quite an eye-opening experience with a 777 seemingly about to land on top of you. Wonder how straight that section is. Remember the Eisenhower Interstate System had long straightaways built into it so that they could be used as landing strips.