Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[ChessieCat]

I actually believe that BA will launch service with a 772 instead of a 787/763. CLT isn't a "long and thin" route like AUS is, and could support an International First cabin on a route like LHR.

 

And remember that while BMWs further commitment into the plant near GSP increases the importance of the MUC route, I am sure LH will be monitoring the route very closely to see how it does after the US codeshare is dropped.

 

But would a second daily CLT-LHR flight be profitable with a 772 instead of 788?  I have no doubts about the premium cabin being full but the rest of the plane?   Remember US/AA downgrades to a 332 during off-peak months...

Edited March 31, 2014 by ChessieCat

[LKN704]

LHR will essentially replace the role of FRA as US's (AA) main connecting hub in Europe. The relationship between AA and BA is stronger than the relationship between US and LH was, and AA has been known to push a considerable amount of feed through LHR.

An A333 was used this winter for the flight to LHR. The A332 was only used for one winter season to LGW. Remember that US didn't really have anyone to connect with in London after the demise of BMI, thus the flight relied on O/D and CLT connections.

[ChessieCat]

LHR will essentially replace the role of FRA as US's (AA) main connecting hub in Europe. The relationship between AA and BA is stronger than the relationship between US and LH was, and AA has been known to push a considerable amount of feed through LHR.

An A333 was used this winter for the flight to LHR. The A332 was only used for one winter season to LGW. Remember that US didn't really have anyone to connect with in London after the demise of BMI, thus the flight relied on O/D and CLT connections.

Got it.  Would love to see BA A351's flying here eventually during the peak months since CLT-LHR will be a featured trunk route as you say.

 

I know these other oneworld euro hubs have been discussed before:

 

Will MAD become a year-round destination?  Since US/AA plans on retiring the 762 this year, I wonder if the 332 will be too large for the off-peak months?  MAD does have a bunch of African & Southern European destinations that would be easier to connect to than LHR... 

 

DUS/TXL codeshare with AB: Since US/AA plans on retaining the CLT-FRA route and same with LH for CLT-MUC, does CLT need a third German destination?

Edited April 1, 2014 by ChessieCat

[atlrvr]

I saw yes to all of those possibilites....maybe Dusseldorf over Berlin, just based on Charlotte-German job base is concentrated in Western/Southern German, with little in the former East German states.

[LKN704]

I am very surprised US isn't flying an A330 to MAD this season. It was scheduled to be an A333 this season, and appeared in the schedules as such last fall. When the merger between AA/US was put into question, the flight went back to a 767. The route could easily see an A330 in the summer season, and is the perfect route for a 763 in the winter season. It wouldn't surprise me to start MAD year round.

 

If AA or AB decides to add another German city to CLT's route network, it'll be DUS.

[ssh214]

Ideally I would love to see IB (Iberia) start service here to MAD (Madrid) but I doubt that will ever happen given that they're bleeding money.

 

What about seeing a 787 fly the FRA (Frankfurt) route? I feel that is a largely corporate route and that would do fairly well on a 787.

 

I ultimately believe AA (American Airlines) will have the A330 year round to LHR (London-Heathrow) but I also think BA (British Airways) will begin service with a 787 to CLT (I hope everyone knows this one by now ). BA currently has a presence in all AA hub cities except for CLT; it is inevitable as someone mentioned above that they will start service to CLT, hopefully this year. If AUS (Austin) got it surely CLT will... Random side note I am shocked DTW (Detroit-Wayne County) still hasn't resumed service with BA. 

 

On another side note does anyone know how the Allegiant flights out of Concord are doing??

Edited April 1, 2014 by saamh

[15895]

If Iberia is bleeding money, wouldn't Charlotte be a low risk flight (hub to hub with JV which is a lot more beneficial than just codeshare/alliance hub)

[LKN704]

Indeed, IB isn't in the best place financially right now, but they are getting better. IIRC, IAG just posted a profit.

 

Remember that the intended "purpose" of the 787 is for long and thin routes. Long distance wise, yet low demand wise. Think SAN-NRT, AUS-LHR, IAH-AKL (Auckland, NZ..United canceled the flight but it was announced). Due to the financial problems at airlines and the high cost of fuel, you see many airlines flying 787s just to replace less efficient aircraft (BA and AA are both replacing their 767s with 787s.)

 

CLT-FRA isn't really a long and thin route. There is good O/D demand between both cities, and I see the flight staying a A333 (which is larger than a 787) or upgrading to a 772.

 

Regarding CLT-MAD with Iberia, because AA/IAG have a TATL joint venture, it doesn't really matter who operates it. It is cheaper to have AA operate the flight then to have IB come in and open a new US station. It's a different scenario than BA flying to CLT-LHR, which has much, much higher O/D numbers, and could easily support a second daily flight. BA also has a larger brand recognition in the US (and in CLT due to having flown here in the past). IB isn't really known to the general public once outside MIA/NYC/LAX/ORD.

[ChessieCat]

^Since US has been flying CLT-MAD for years, it makes sense for AA to continue flying that route year-round instead of IB.  Plus US/AA's fleet will allow for a good mix of A332s and 763s on the route.  AA and US both have single-aisle 752's which can fly the route during off-peak times too.    

 

One of the reasons Iberia is bleeding cash is that they chose the A346 as their workhorse long-range aircraft instead of the 77W.  They made this decision based on their routes to Latin America whose big cities are "hot and high" requiring four engines over two (or so the thinking went a decade ago).  IAG is remedying this by allocating A359s and 789s to IB.  Only the latter is optimal for the MAD-CLT route.  The 789, unlike the "long and thin" 788 is meant to compete with the A330 on trunk routes so maybe one day IB will consider it for this route.  The A359 is more of a 777 replacement which is probably too big for MAD-CLT.

 

Incidentally Lufthansa made the same mistake in choosing the A346.  LH can afford to fly the 346 on the CLT-MUC due to high load factors and business traffic, but they realized their mistake and have become a launch customer for the A359 (A330/A340 replacement) and 777-9X (77W successor and replacement for 747-400 and possibly 747-8i).

Edited April 1, 2014 by ChessieCat

[Miesian Corners]

Y'all have to remember that International Airlines Group, PLC (IAG) operates both British Airways AND Iberia Airlines. BA and IB merged two years ago.  IAG has a dual headquarters in London and Madrid.

[ssh214]

Y'all have to remember that International Airlines Group, PLC (IAG) operates both British Airways AND Iberia Airlines. BA and IB merged two years ago.  IAG has a dual headquarters in London and Madrid.

 

You are absolutely right, if I am correct KLM/Air France operates in a similar fashion correct? 

 

Just went on airliners.net; if you guys want to read something funny look at the reactions that the two Miami guys had, priceless... Lol

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6043491/ 

Edited April 1, 2014 by saamh

[LKN704]

Yes. AirFrance-KLM merged before BA/IB, in 2004. For trivia, LH also owns Swiss, Austrian Airlines, Brussels Airlines, and parts of Luxair and JetBlue.

 

Remember that when LH/IB ordered the A346, the 77W didn't exist. The first flight of the 77W occurred after the A346 was already in service. Airlines didn't know that fuel was going to sky rocket, and that ETOPS regulations were going to be eased. Had airlines have known that, you can bet they would have ordered the 77W.

[kickazzz2000]

You are absolutely right, if I am correct KLM/Air France operates in a similar fashion correct? 

 

Just went on airliners.net; if you guys want to read something funny look at the reactions that the two Miami guys had, priceless... Lol

 

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6043491/ 

Insufferable, MAH is.

[ChessieCat]

Y'all have to remember that International Airlines Group, PLC (IAG) operates both British Airways AND Iberia Airlines. BA and IB merged two years ago.  IAG has a dual headquarters in London and Madrid.

The collective purchasing power of IAG is what has allowed it to make a huge order for all derivatives of the A350 and 787. BA will operate all three 787 types and the A351 while IB will operate the 789 and A359.

 

Regardless I hope to see one of them fly to CLT by the end of the decade with these new aircraft...

[ChessieCat]

Yes. AirFrance-KLM merged before BA/IB, in 2004. For trivia, LH also owns Swiss, Austrian Airlines, Brussels Airlines, and parts of Luxair and JetBlue.

 

Remember that when LH/IB ordered the A346, the 77W didn't exist. The first flight of the 77W occurred after the A346 was already in service. Airlines didn't know that fuel was going to sky rocket, and that ETOPS regulations were going to be eased. Had airlines have known that, you can bet they would have ordered the 77W.

United and AA and Delta have all lucked out by making their latest widebody orders at the end of the build cycle. DAL is shrewdest in demanding the A330neo. They let the foreign carriers deal with all the growing pains...

Edited April 2, 2014 by ChessieCat

[uptownliving]

The Lufthansa Munich flight to Charlotte is part of the nearly 4,000 Lufthansa flights cancelled for the next 3 days as part of the Pilots Strike.

 

Hope none of you guys are affected but I imagine things will be stressful at the airport with hundreds of people being re-booked onto other flights

[NCDAWG]

Haven't flown out of CLT in about a year, so I'll be eager to notice construction changes as the wife and I fly CLT-DUB and return EDI-PHL-CLT in Jun-Jul. 

 

Booked our flights over a month ago, and the CLT-DUB was nearly full by the time we booked (pleasantly surprised this route is popular).  This will be my first TATL 757 (flew the CLT-LGW leg on a 333 in 2010).

Edited April 2, 2014 by NCDAWG

[LKN704]

A 757 isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things when flying TATL. I don't know why some people get all worked up about it. I'd take a 757 across the pond any day than fly in 10 across 777.

Edited April 2, 2014 by LKN704

[ChessieCat]

The Lufthansa Munich flight to Charlotte is part of the nearly 4,000 Lufthansa flights cancelled for the next 3 days as part of the Pilots Strike.

 

Hope none of you guys are affected but I imagine things will be stressful at the airport with hundreds of people being re-booked onto other flights

 

Crap, I'm flying LH to MUC in 10 days.  Hope it's over by then...

[NCDAWG]

A 757 isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things when flying TATL. I don't know why some people get all worked up about it. I'd take a 757 across the pond any day than fly in 10 across 777.

Yeah, quicker boarding and deplaning for sure.  Good thing I like 757s, because all three legs of the journey are on them! 

[Miesian Corners]

^ Just make sure you bring your own entertainment.  The digital video system on the US 757s is dismal.

[NCDAWG]

^ Already thought of that.. Will be breaking down and finally getting an Ipad stocked w/movies because no GoGo on 757s

[kermit]

Its not really news but Bloomberg has a nice table (about half way through the article) showing the busiest airports in the world (by passengers).

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-02/atlantas-still-the-worlds-busiest-airport-but-maybe-not-for-long?campaign_id=yhoo

 

Spoiler: CLT is 23rd, about a half million pax short of San Francisco's numbers.

[ChessieCat]

^Good to know CLT is the fastest-growing US airport among the world's top 30... 

Edited April 2, 2014 by ChessieCat

[USAir767]

Its not really news but Bloomberg has a nice table (about half way through the article) showing the busiest airports in the world (by passengers).

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-02/atlantas-still-the-worlds-busiest-airport-but-maybe-not-for-long?campaign_id=yhoo

 

Spoiler: CLT is 23rd, about a half million pax short of San Francisco's numbers.

What's funny is we're ahead of Miami. Let's show that to MAH and the other guy.