Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[ssh214]

I have never been to the lookout but I kind of want to go just to ask her what she is doing, it's not like she has rabies or something, I hope not at least...

[Miesian Corners]

As this is not an aviation forum, could I request, then, that when somebody posts an airport code that is not well known or obvious, and especially nearly all international destinations, please tell us which city the airport is in? At least the first time the airport is mentioned in a discussion.

 

I find this discussion of which flights are likely to happen or make sense very interesting, but it's very, very hard to follow.

 

Of course I know how to google it, but when confronted with a post like this one:

it's really just too much.

Examples of codes that are well-known/obvious:

CLT

RDU

ATL

LAX

JFK

BOS

 

Codes that are not well-known/obvious used recently in this thread:

EDI

DOH

LCY

IST

TAV

MCO

MCO isn't that well known?  Mickey Controls Orlando.  Everybody knows that ( and 15 minutes can also save you 15% on car insurance).  

[cltbwimob]

As promised, here is my airport jargon lesson.  I will not rehash Miesian's earlier post about airline codes, or Chessie Cat's explanation of IATA vs ICAO (thanks to the both of you for stealing my thunder ).  Instead, I will focus on airport three letter identifiers and other portions of aviation parlance that may confuse some.

 

For starters here are some easy ones-

CLT-Charlotte Douglas International

BWI-Baltimore/Washington International

MOB-Mobile Regional

 

You see these three codes every time I barge into the forum to dole out opinions because those three airport codes represent the three areas in which I had resided at the time I joined UP (Urban Planet).  As a little tangential note, I actually lived closer to Pensacola (PNS) than Mobile (MOB) at the time of my joining, but feared cyber bullying if I would have chosen CLTBWIPNS as my screen name.  I have since added Norfolk (ORF) as a residence and will soon be moving to Richmond (RIC) for a short stint.  Additionally I have spent a significant amount of time in Korea, not too far from Busan (PUS), however I have spent almost 2/3 of my life in Greater Charlotte, and Charlotte is where I intend to place my permanent roots once I am no longer obligated to my current job. Charlotte is home to me.  I will say that I refuse  to continue to add airport identifiers every time my job takes me to a new place.  If I did, my screen name might be "CLTBWIMOBORFRICPUS".

 

Here are some regional airport identifiers within NC and SC:

RDU-Raleigh/Durham Int'l

GSO-Piedmont Triad Int'l in Greensboro

USA-Concord Regional

EQY-Charlotte-Monroe Executive

GSP-Greenville/Spartanburg Int'l

CAE-Columbia Metropolitain

MYR-Myrtle Beach International

FAY-Fayetteville Regional

ILM-New Hanover Int'l in Wilmington

CHS-Charleston International

AVL-Asheville Regional

 

When speaking of international destinations, you might see these:

LHR-London Heathrow

LGW-London Gatwick

LCY-London City

CDG-Paris Charles DeGaulle

ORY-Paris Orly

FRA-Frankfurt

MUC-Munich

FCO-Rome

MAD-Madrid

BCN-Barcelona

AMS-Amsterdam

BRU-Brussels

LIS-Lisbon

ZRH-Zurich

MAN-Manchester UK

EDI-Edinburgh

OSL-Oslo

ARN-Stockholm Arlanda

DUS-Dusseldorf

TXL-Berlin (Can't remember which airport)

TLV-Tel Aviv

DOH-Doha

DXB-Dubai

NRT-Tokyo Narita

HND-Tokeo Haneda

PEK-Beijing

ICN-Incheon (Near Seoul)

GIG-Rio de Janiero

GRU-Sao Paulo

EZE-Buenos Aires

LIM-LIma

BOG-Bogota

CCS-Caracas

SCL-Santiago de Chile

ETC-et cetera

 

Some identifiers you may see if we mention American Airlines hubs:

DCA-Washington Reagan

LGA-New York LaGuardia

JFK-New York John F. Kennedy

DFW-Dallas/Fort Worth

PHL-Philadelphia

MIA-Miami

PHX-Phoenix

LAX Los Angeles

ORD- Chicago O'hare

 

Some other popular ones:

ATL-Atlanta

FLL-Fort Lauderdale

TPA-Tampa

EWR-Newark Liberty

IAD-Washington Dulles

PIT-Pittsburgh

CVG-Cincinatti

CLE-Cleveland

BNA-Nashville

MEM-Memphis

DTW-Detroit

IAH-Houston Intercontinental

HOU-Houston Hobby

DAL-Dallas Love Field

LAS-Las Vegas

SFO-San Francisco

MSP-Minneapolis/St. Paul

MDW-Chicago Midway

 

Some miscellaneous aviation jargon that you will rarely see on this thread, if ever:

ILS-Instrument Landing System

VOR-VHF Omnidirectional Range

TACAN-Tactical Aerial Navigation

VORTAC-Co-located VOR and TACAN

DME-Distance Measuring Equipment

ADF-Automatic Direction Finder

NDB-Non-directional Beacon

LOC-Localizer

GS-Glideslope

AIM-Aeronautical Information Manual

FAR-Federal Aviation Regulations

CFI-Certified Flight Instructor

VS-Virgin Atlantic Airways

QF-Qantas

CY-Cathay Pacific Airways

VX-Virgin America

AS-Alaskan Airlines

AM-Aeromexico

 

Some miscellaneous terms you may see:

PDEW-Passengers per Day Each Way

O&D-Origin and Destination Traffic

 

Provided everyone commits my extensive lexicon to memory, as well as the lessons of fellow aviaton gurus Miesian Corners, Chessie Cat, and AirNostrumMAD, it is possible for all to know exactly "what the hell" we are talking about when we use our secret codes.

[CltFlyer]

Fellow Aviation enthusiast here.   Iv had my account on here for a few years and i lurk frequently but rarely post.  I'v found this thread to cover CLT/US actually better than most aviation sites including Airliners.net and Flyertalk.   I normally come here for the most "unbiased"  aviation news on CLT around.

 

Certain posters on Airliners.net are so anti usairways/CLT it is laughable.

Edited March 28, 2014 by CltFlyer

[ah59396]

Awesome info. Thanks guys!

[ChessieCat]

Here are the 3-letter acronyms for aircraft types.  Now that US/AA have merged to become the world's largest airline, you should be on the lookout for:

 

 

Airbus narrow-bodies:

319 (The smallest aircraft in the single-aisle A320 family. US has flown for years and AA received first of many last year)

320 (A320, a common workhorse aircraft for US/AA)

321 (A321, largest aircraft in series that US/AA flies between big cities like CLT-SFO/LAX/DEN/SEA/ORD/PHX)

 

 

Airbus wide-bodies, dual-aisle, aka “heavies”:

332 (A330-200, US flies this to Euro destinations that require less pax (passengers in airplane lingo) or during off-peak months, and occasionally MCO or PHL) 

333 (A330-300, most common Airbus widebody.  LH and US both fly to Euro cities like LHR, CDG, FCO, FRA, MUC, etc.)

343 (A340-300, LH occasionally flies this, look for 4 engines)

346 (A340-600, largest in A340 family that LH flies during summer months to MUC, 4 engines)

359 (A350-900, US ordered 22 before AA merger and will replace the older A330’s in fleet starting in 2017.  Efficient, quiet aircraft that will compete with 787)

380 (A380 superjumbo that will never be seen at CLT unless some oligarch or sheik flies his personal palace here) 

 

 

Boeing narrow-bodies:

717 (Airtran would fly them to ATL before the SWA merger.  Sold to Delta who’ll fly them to ATL and other hubs)

73G (737-700, the most common 737NG (Next-Gen) aircraft flown by all the major carriers including WN (Southwest).  Competes with 319)

738 (737-800, a workhorse aircraft that AA will fly here if not already.  Competes with 320)

739 (737-900, the largest in the 737 family.  Tries competing with 321 but not as successful.  United may fly it here if they want to compete with AA on major routes like LAX/SFO/ORD)

752 (757-200, US flies this to DUB and Carribbean destinations.  AA is a big operator too.  Single-aisle with long range capability)

 

Boeing wide-bodies:

744 (747-400, most common 747 but now obsolete. Does not fly to CLT)

748 (747-8i, LH is the only airline to fly it and is too big for CLT-MUC route)

762 (767-200, both US and AA fly this old, crappy plane, although AA will retire theirs in May.  Avoid when possible on routes like CLT-MAD in favor of 330 series cause at least you’ll get your own TV)

763 (767-300, AA’s workhorse widebody aircraft.  Competes with 333 and we may see it here for Euro routes in future)

772 (777-200ER, AA utilizes for all trunk routes: Euro, Latin Am, trans-Pacific.  We may see it here for high capacity routes like CLT-LHR in summer)

77W (777-300ER, quite possibly the most efficient widebody ever created.  AA became the first domestic airline to fly it last year, and used for highest capacity routes like MIA-GRU.  Prolly too big for CLT but TBD)

788 (787-8, the base 787 model that has had its share of problems but is proving its efficiency.  AA will receive the first of 12 this year.  Boeing desinged this especially for smaller-sized cities like CLT for all long-range routes)

789 (787-9, the middle version of the 787 series that Boeing will start delivering next year.  AA will receive 30.  Will replace 763 and give 333 a run for its money.  Perfect for routes like CLT-GRU)

 

 Unfortunately most of the time you’ll see CRJ (Bombardier) and ERJ (Embraer) regional jets at CLT so I’m not gonna bother will all those variants...   

Edited March 28, 2014 by ChessieCat

[ah59396]

I'm flying on a 767 from CLT to MAD and then coming back on an A332 from BCN to CLT.  So at least half my trip will be decent, haha.

[Miesian Corners]

cltbwimob, you left out two very important airport codes:

• BWI- Baltimore/Washington Thurgood Marshall Airport
• MOB-Mobile Regional Airport

[cltbwimob]

<p>

cltbwimob, you left out two very important airport codes:

• BWI- Baltimore/Washington Thurgood Marshall Airport
• MOB-Mobile Regional Airport

No I didn't.

[Miesian Corners]

No I didn't.

Damn! I really need to wear my glasses more often.  If it had been any clearer, it would have slapped me in the face.  :-)

[LKN704]

You can't even post anything on a.net on CLT without it getting shot down by a number of people (MAH4546 comes to mind, god forbid anyone insults pre merger AA or his PRECIOUS MIA...the mouth on him...I have seen a lot of bad stuff posted online places, but some of the things he has said rank up there pretty high). Whenever I see a thread revolving something good about CLT I'm scared to open it just because of the comments.

[Bikeguy]

Apparently the Airport Police know about her too, yet no one knows the exact reason for her ritual.

 

I have seen her at the overlook myself. She gets driven there and waits in the car until maybe 20 minutes before LH arrives, and then she gets out and starts the ritual. As soon as the plane turns off the runway, she leaves. I've stories that she used to only come if the plane was an A340, but now she comes regardless of the fleet type.

 

I have seen her return for the departure of the plane too. On one occasion, as soon as the plane left the ground, she began chanting "I love you I love you" over and over again. Some people in the overlook were quite concerned to say the least.

 

 

Please tell me that the FAA and Lufthansa know about this.  

[LKN704]

^And I am sure they do. But she isn't really a threat and if it keeps her happy so be it. They have other more important issues to take care of IMHO.

[ah59396]

^And I am sure they do. But she isn't really a threat and if it keeps her happy so be it. They have other more important issues to take care of IMHO.

Plus she's obviously helping land the plane. Just look at her guide that sucker in! It's flawless!!

[kickazzz2000]

You can't even post anything on a.net on CLT without it getting shot down by a number of people (MAH4546 comes to mind, god forbid anyone insults pre merger AA or his PRECIOUS MIA...the mouth on him...I have seen a lot of bad stuff posted online places, but some of the things he has said rank up there pretty high). Whenever I see a thread revolving something good about CLT I'm scared to open it just because of the comments.

I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading a thread by a guy named "Miami" about how 11 new foreign carriers are basically begging to start Miami service which devolved into a pissing match between MAH and somebody else about whether Miami or San Francisco had more long haul flights...to the point that they were arguing about the definition of a long haul flight.  It's so hilarious how clueless some of those people are.

[ssh214]

You can't even post anything on a.net on CLT without it getting shot down by a number of people (MAH4546 comes to mind, god forbid anyone insults pre merger AA or his PRECIOUS MIA...the mouth on him...I have seen a lot of bad stuff posted online places, but some of the things he has said rank up there pretty high). Whenever I see a thread revolving something good about CLT I'm scared to open it just because of the comments.

 

 

I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading a thread by a guy named "Miami" about how 11 new foreign carriers are basically begging to start Miami service which devolved into a pissing match between MAH and somebody else about whether Miami or San Francisco had more long haul flights...to the point that they were arguing about the definition of a long haul flight.  It's so hilarious how clueless some of those people are.

 

It's so funny I have wanted to create an account on that just so I can rip that MAH guy a new one. He is so biased it is not even funny, it's okay to be partial towards something you like, in his case Miami and it's airport, but don't be so critical and biased about it; I think he is secretly worried about Charlotte's status and how it will remain the same if not expand in the new AA.

[tarhoosier]

True story about Miami airport. On way to Caribbean years ago. Woman at counter several persons ahead spoke some language unknown to agent. While translator was sought all in line were gagging from a stange and noxious smell. It just would not dissipate or move. Glances were cast. Finally woman was informed that one bag was overweight and she could avoid charges by repacking at counter to make both bags under weight limit. She opened the larger bag and I and all around me collapsed from the odor. She had a large fish (flounder?) in the bag headed home. Translator took her and bag away. Normal breathing resumed.

[CltFlyer]

Has already been posted in another thread but I thought it belongs here as well.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/28/4802391/bmw-plans-1-billion-expansion.html#.Uzek2PldW05

 

BMW is doing another 1 Billion dollar expansion to its Plant in Greer SC, and is going to build 2 new X series cars in Greenville adding 800 jobs.  This will make this the largest BMW plant in the world.   

 

I don't think the CLT-MUC flight on Lufthansa is going anywhere.

[ssh214]

Has already been posted in another thread but I thought it belongs here as well.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/28/4802391/bmw-plans-1-billion-expansion.html#.Uzek2PldW05

 

BMW is doing another 1 Billion dollar expansion to its Plant in Greer SC, and is going to build 2 new X series cars in Greenville adding 800 jobs.  This will make this the largest BMW plant in the world.   

 

I don't think the CLT-MUC flight on Lufthansa is going anywhere.

I think the guys on airliners.net that everyone is referring to would argue that those passengers should be routed through Miami...

[LKN704]

One thing that hasn't really been discussed here that will probably happen soon IMHO, is the arrival of AS (Alaska Airlines).

 

CLT is the largest city unserved by AS on the East Coast at the moment (although RDU is probably the largest city on the East Coast without service to SEA), the third largest city in the US unserved by AS, and because AA/AS codeshare, AS will be able to tap in to the Southeast market (especially as the AS/DL relationship is getting more awkward and soured as each day goes on).

 

I can easily see a 1x CLT-SEA flight on a 738.

[cltbwimob]

According to this article, the British Airways CEO hints that Charlotte might be on the list of expansion cities. While he does not mention Charlotte by name, he does mention starting service to some of the legacy US Airways strongholds. Since Charlotte is the only legacy city that is US stronghold without BA service, it stands to reason that he would be talking about Charlotte. See for yourselves...it's all conjecture at this point, but interesting none the less.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/03/12/british-airways-hints-at-expanding-to-us-airways-strongholds/6313513/

Edited March 31, 2014 by cltbwimob

[HopHead]

According to this article, the British Airways CEO hints that Charlotte might be on the list of expansion cities. While he does not mention Charlotte by name, he does mention starting service to some of the legacy US Airways strongholds. Since Charlotte is the only legacy city that is US stronghold without BA service, it stands to reason that he would be talking about Charlotte. See for yourselves...it's all conjecture at this point, but interesting none the less.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/03/12/british-airways-hints-at-expanding-to-us-airways-strongholds/6313513/

 

Yea, it's pretty obvious that CLT is on their radar. It would be really nice to have two daily non-stops to London-Heathrow. And both on separate carriers, even though they both are on Oneworld. 

Edited March 31, 2014 by wend28

[ChessieCat]

According to this article, the British Airways CEO hints that Charlotte might be on the list of expansion cities. While he does not mention Charlotte by name, he does mention starting service to some of the legacy US Airways strongholds. Since Charlotte is the only legacy city that is US stronghold without BA service, it stands to reason that he would be talking about Charlotte. See for yourselves...it's all conjecture at this point, but interesting none the less.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/03/12/british-airways-hints-at-expanding-to-us-airways-strongholds/6313513/

 

Can't wait to see BA 788's flying CLT-LHR but it all depends on deliveries of new aircraft like the article said... 

 

Has already been posted in another thread but I thought it belongs here as well.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/28/4802391/bmw-plans-1-billion-expansion.html#.Uzek2PldW05

 

BMW is doing another 1 Billion dollar expansion to its Plant in Greer SC, and is going to build 2 new X series cars in Greenville adding 800 jobs.  This will make this the largest BMW plant in the world.   

 

I don't think the CLT-MUC flight on Lufthansa is going anywhere.

 

The fact that LH428 isn't going anywhere has made somebody's day:

 

Edited March 31, 2014 by ChessieCat

[LKN704]

I actually believe that BA will launch service with a 772 instead of a 787/763. CLT isn't a "long and thin" route like AUS is, and could support an International First cabin on a route like LHR.

 

And remember that while BMWs further commitment into the plant near GSP increases the importance of the MUC route, I am sure LH will be monitoring the route very closely to see how it does after the US codeshare is dropped.

[allthingsplanes]

Yes - and also the question is not will BMW folks be routed through Miami (to a point up above).  The argument / question is whether Lufthansa will route the passengers through a United hub (IAD - Dulles) to keep the codeshare...