otherstream

Would've been at least the 1940s, because my mom rode the streetcars as a teenager. That's about the time most of them were replaced with buses nationwide too. FYI, because they were electric and used overhead wires, the streetcars here were owned and operated by Duke Power, as they were in many cities, which is why Greensboro had Duke Power buses for years afterward until the city finally agreed to take over the system in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Duke was contractually obligated to continue running the system for years after it had ceased to be profitable for them.

Agreed completely. I was just saying that my distaste for Southpark is largely a subjective thing based on my own tastes and not necessarily a criticism of its physical characteristics. In other words, I didn't want to seem like I was saying that the fact that I don't like malls makes all malls inherently bad.

Agreed. To be honest, I've never felt that the sidewalks were all that especially crowded in Dilworth or Elizabeth or Plaza-Midwood most of the time either. Southpark is what it is: a suburban shopping mall surrounded by a suburban office park. I agree that it's probably a good deal better than most other mall-centered developments and most other suburban commercial developments in general. At least in the Southpark area the stores, restaurants, and offices are close enough that you could walk to them if you were so inclined, even if you didn't see much interesting stuff along the way. My problem with the area stems less from the physical layout and more from the fact that I'm not in its target demographic; I find "upscale" malls exceedingly boring, and I'd argue that there's more "urbanity" in the re-purposed strip centers and thrift stores and ethnic markets along South Boulevard and Central Avenue that there ever will be at Southpark or any other sanitized, overplanned "mixed-use" area or project, no matter how "dense" it may be.

There was also Warnersville, originally an African-American suburb south of Lee Street. It was completely obliterated by urban renewal clearance. There were also communities called Bessemer and Hilltop, although like most of the others, they weren't actually incorporated. I think Hamilton Lakes is the only actual incorporated entity that was merged into Greensboro, which is ironic since it was originally incorporated to avoid annexation. I think I recall reading that the city of Hamilton Lakes went bankrupt or had some other financial issue, but I'm not 100% certain.

I largely agree that a mall's fortunes generally follow the fortunes of the surrounding area, rather than vice versa. Southpark was not directly responsible for any residential boom in the area; very few malls have that effect. But you have to admit that the presence of the mall was largely -- if not almost entirely -- responsible for all the office/business development in the area, which ultimately affected the residential component -- and will do so even more in the coming years. It's just like the effect Tyson's Corner (DC) and Lenox Square (Atlanta) had over their areas. I'd have to say that the description of Southpark as "dark, dead, and dying" in the 1980s may be a bit of an exaggeration, though. Granted, it was a few years older than Eastland and might've looked it, but I remember thinking in 1986, while managing a store across the street, that Eastland was Charlotte's dowdy and doomed mall and that Southpark was the more upscale option. Southpark may have been eclipsed briefly as the "prestige center" in town, but it was never really in such terrible shape. Like the older Friendly Center in Greensboro, which had a similar cycle, it's pretty much the top of the heap now, which wouldn't likely be the case if its past decline had been significant. None of this, mind you should be construed to suggest that I'm particularly fond of Southpark or its environs. I avoid the whole area like the plague; it's amazing how successfully it manages to be both bland and pretentious.

The town of Geensborough (which initially covered an area much smaller than just downtown is today) was both laid out and incorporated in 1808 as a new and more central county seat to replace the old one at Martinsville, a separate town near Guilford Battleground. Of course, there's not a Martinsville anymore; it's all part of Greensboro now. But in 1808, Martinsville was several miles away from the new town. The only reminder of the old county seat is Martinsville Road that currently runs off Battleground Avenue. There may have been some small farms in the area that was incorporated in 1808, but there was definitely not anything resembling a town there. Even Martinsville wasn't much of a town in those days.

Strangest restaurant experience I ever had in Charlotte was back during the PTL years, when I found myself in line behind Jerry Falwell at the Burger King across from Eastland Mall. There's no real story here; he didn't try to hit on me or start preaching or anything, and I didn't tear into him either, despite being much more militant in those days. The image of Jerry and his double cheeseburger has just amused me greatly over the years.

I just happened to drive by the old Super Kmart at Independence and Sardis Road North yesterday and noticed it had sprouted a Steve & Barry's sign, although the building still looks empty.

They probably believe the old theatre closed specifically because it was only three screens rather than due to its location. And they may well have been right. It's almost impossible to make money on a small operation like that these days; that's why one- to four-screen cinemas are closing all over the country, even in higher income neighborhoods. I think a newer, larger theatre complex at Eastland might be a gold mine if it can adequately address the perceived security issues.

Respectfully, I have to point out that many of the exact same arguments were made about the so-called "slum clearance" and "urban renewal" projects of the 1960s, namely that old development patterns were not sufficiently "modern" nor "efficient" and that bulldozing them en masse was necessary to create a living, growing city. The few inner-city areas that managed to survive this school of thought and make it to the present in their "inefficient" state are now some of the most desirable places to live and do business in most American cities. I don't think we're going to be any more successful now that we're calling it "densification" rather than "urban renewal". There's more to urbanity than just simple density. Seventh Street right now is one of the most urban places in all of Charlotte, mainly because of its variety, which I'd argue is considerably more important to an "urban feel" than density is. We shouldn't place the whole neighborhood in a stasis chamber, obviously, but the idea that bulldozing whole areas in the name of "density" will make these areas more "vital" and "urban" is ludicrous. Most of these massive, overplanned projects are absolutely lethal to neighborhood variety. They're not "infill" at all; that term suggests that something was inserted into the streetscape, not that something replaced it entirely. I'd hate to see Seventh Street looking like South Boulevard or the "new and improved" Elizabeth Avenue: giant walls of "density" with all the charm of a suburban office park. That's what happens when you rebuild a neighborhood over a period of just a couple of years. There's no texture at all, just a big wall of boring spaces that were all built last week and will look like crap in twenty years.

Agreed. They're great stores. They're just somehwat different from what a lot of people here seem to be expecting.

I haven't been in any of the new Trader Joe's stores that are opening outside California, but back there, Whole Foods and TJ's are two entirely different species, even though they attract some of the same demographic. TJ's stores tend to be relatively small and to focus on pre-packaged items, unusual frozen goods, and wine. Their roots are in imports rather than organics. They have a small selection of produce and fresh meat too, but it's nothing at all like Whole Foods. TJ"s is also focused on low prices, which is most decidedly not a concern of Whole Foods. TJ's in California also tends to locate in older, less pricey and trendy centers, often in spaces vacated by other grocers. I've seen one or two in upscale centers, but their average loaction was quite unremarkable. Again, though, they may be changing their MO as the expand eastward.

Sorry about that. I'm still catching up on all my back reading after the big move...

There are some very, ummm, groovy photos of Ivey's Southpark way back when posted at "Malls of America" right now, in case anyone is interested: http://mallsofamerica.blogspot.com/2006/06...rk-mall_27.html

I'm betting not even that, because of the new Mega Food Bazaar (I think that's the name) opening soon a block south of Eastland in the old Syms location. It looks like it may be a pretty nice store, with a fair amount of investment behind it. I think the HT may sit vacant for quite a while, or maybe be subdivided into something like a Dollar Tree and something else.