BFG

I meant the smaller picture...it's kinda hard to see, but it shows the Norfolk skyline from what looks like the Ghent/Atlantic City side.

I love the angle in varider's sig, was that taken from the hospital parking garage? So many times, when I see downtown Norfolk, it's from the Portsmouth side of the river, but that side angle shows the more recent buildings, almost like the "New Norfolk" if you would. It makes the city look like more of a business district, instead of the P-town angle, where everything is spaced out more. Both look nice, but I love the hospital side-angle, with the Brambleton Bridge in the foreground. We just need a landmark building in the skyline, like how St. Louis has the Arch, Dallas has Reunion Tower (the big microphone-looking thing lol), etc. Something besides Waterside.

Good points, esp. considering the residents are against tax increases for much higher priorities (i.e. a third major crossing/tunnel). Fair enough. It's definitely something that would need to be researched, and it wouldn't hurt to a) get input from the residents, and b) let the economy make some more progress. I'd love to see a new Amerigroup Arena (just one example), but I'd like to see some other things in place first, i.e. that third crossing.

I remember the gambling aspect also being a factor when Norfolk and Vegas were on the short list for what became the Nats. People talk about the locals not supporting a team here, but I think it's an even bigger factor in a tourist town like Vegas. I know the metro is about the same size as Hampton Roads, but again, the tourism factor makes me wonder would the stands be packed with locals or vacationers? I could see NBA or NHL, which is all the more reason why Norfolk needs to consider a new arena. Not a replacement for the iconic Scope, but a new venue in a different location. I thought about last week, and did a little math. I'm not sure how feasible either of these are, so work with me. Let's say the arena is 225-250M. The host city puts up 50M, the other six cities 25, which is 200. The remaining 25-50 could come from a 3% hotel/tourism tax. I can't find the article, but I read that VB pulled in about $700M in revenue last year, and that was a down year. If the entire region pulled $1 billion, that would be $30M for the arena, which would put things at $230M. The profits could be split between the seven cities, with the host city receiving the higher 2:1 share. PRO: It requires the cities to work together. CON: It requires the cities to work together. No naming rights, and it could be called Seven Cities Arena. Has a nice ring a la Three Rivers Stadium (It hurt me typing that as a Cowboys fan ). It's apples and oranges, but when high school bball playoffs were at Churchland High, it was like a madhouse in that gym, and the move to the Scope was very successful. Would love to see that success and energy translate to the new Norfolk/Hampton Roads/Virginia Squires!

Hampton Roads in general is the largest metroppolitan in the US without a pro sports franchise. This metro is larger than New Orleans, Buffalo, and are slightly larger than...(wait for it)...Charlotte!

Definitely add. That parking lot is a nightmare to park in, and even worse trying to get out of! Even if it would create a slightly longer walk, an expanded parking lot would be an improvement. I've ever been to the Jason's Deli at Pembroke, but the one in Greenbrier is pretty good.

Gotta admit, I love stopping at Hardee's to get a sausage biscuit on my way to ODU. I think Ghent has enough banks...honestly, they could stand to work on expanding the parking lot of that adjacent strip mall, the one with Moe's, Quizno's, Total Wine, etc. Smooth over the property, and do a mix of parking spaces, and a similarly designed building, something that fits into the 21st St. architecture. Three things Ghent could use: 1. Chik-Fil-A 2. Jason's Deli 3. Wawa Honestly, #2 is probably the only one that would fit in with the other Ghent businesses, i.e. Panera, Tropical Smoothie. #s 1 and 3 could be placed on the Monticello side, which is technically not quite Ghent. Hell, any gas station for that matter, the BP and Exxon aren't quite enough IMO.

That's PilotOnline users for you. They hate anything that signals progress, including pro sports and light rail. I don't know how representative that is of the rest of the city, but the regressive mentality of the posters on that site is irritating. Sites like UrbanPlanet and AltDaily are a breath of fresh air because it shows that there is some forward thinking in Hampton Roads...

WVEC-13 briefly reported this evening that the UFL-United Football League could bring a franchise to Norfolk, and that Super Bowl champ Doug Williams could be tapped as the GM. I don't expect it to lead to an NFL team in Virginia, but the UFL has gotten a lot of fanfare recently. I could see them playing at Foreman Field or Dick Price Stadium on NSU's campus...both hold between 20,000-30,000, which is fine for a smaller league, although from what I read, the attendance was decent. Honestly, I'd consider using Harbor Park the same way Norfolk's high schools did for years. The season starts after the ILB season is done, but Foreman/Price could work just as well. I'd consider 10,000 in attendance to be a great first year. Here's a little more from NBC Sports...

Many people's perception of downtown Norfolk comes from what they know from decades ago or see solely on the news. It's a very narrow-minded belief that they refuse to let go of. My job deals with the media, and every so often, we get calls from a lady who has nothing else better to do lives near Oceana and is about as out of touch with reality as you can be. She is anti-light rail and said she refuses to go to Norfolk because she wants to avoid the crime there. For what it's worth, she also complains about Oceana jet noise, which makes me wonder about her, considering the base is older than she is! There were three shootings in downtown Norfolk last year. One was from a fender-bender in the parking garage that escalated into a fight (the guy who fired the gun claimed self-defense, not sure if that held up). A second shooting started from a fight in a club. Only the third shooting was a random robbery. Unfortunately, people like to use that as reasons never to go downtown, when all three can, and HAVE, happened in every single city in Hampton Roads. It's part of the lack of unity issue that plagues this area.

Had another thought that ties into location. Wherever this new venue would go, it needs to have a separate thoroughfare to offset the traffic jams. The road leading to Harbor Park is nice, but something even more elaborate. Think the I-64 W off-ramp that takes you to Busch Gardens. You take that ramp and what feels like a separate Interstate just to get to that backroad of restaurants, hotels, the golf course, and eventually the park. There's also a special on-ramp that takes you BACK to I-64 E. I dunno where you could even find land like that except for maybe in Suffolk, but the setup would be great, because it would mean minimal traffic for your major Interstates. I think downtown Norfolk is too landlocked (read: congested) to attempt a 20,000-seat arena, but depending on what part of VB, I think that could work, perhaps somewhere between Town Center and the Oceanfront. Also, Bower's Hill in Chesapeake wouldn't be a bad option...

I'll second that the old-school downtown picture is from 1983-84. The plot of land just above the World Trade Center is where the Main Street parking garage now lies. Also, on the far left, right above where Nauticus currently sits is a building under construction. Those are condos. Both opened in 1984.

Actually, I think the old Mellon Arena in Pittsburgh did just that. Per Wiki: So, I think upper decks could be done, and probably save a lot more money. With Norfolk considering Waterside, I'd hate to see another unique structure face demolition. So if Scope could add an upper deck that goes all the way around, I'd be in favor of it, at least until the money could be raised for a new arena.

I noticed the e-mail from Mayor Fraim, who I give a lot of credit for his efforts to lure pro sports (NHL in the mid-90s, NBA in the early-2000s, MLB mid-2000s), but I have to disagree with him on the primary tenant needed. Norfolk is passed over time after time because no major league team is going to settle for the Scope (9,000-11,000 capacity) or Harbor Park (12,000) while waiting two or more years for the appropriate facility. Too much money would be lost over that amount of time. I understand a facility is expensive, minimum $250 million most likely. The most likely way to get the arena: -$125 mil from the city (ideally each city puts up something, with the host city putting up the highest percentage, but it would probably be just one city) -Naming rights...I hate them, but it's the future, a necessary evil. I'd propose about $8.25 mil a year for 15 years, which would be $123.75 mil -The rest comes from a tax increase or tolls. Honestly, For a long term investment like this, I wouldn't mind, but people don't even want a tax increase for improving the roads, and that's a true necessity. And considering it would only be another $1.5 mil or so needed, I'm not so sure the tax would even be needed. Haven't figured that part out, but if this could be done for about $250M without breaking the bank for taxpayers, I could see it working. The ball is now in the city's court (no pun intended). I can understand the city not having 1/2 of that, considering the Westin costs $150M, and Granby Tower was somewhere in the ballpark. But it would be the most likely scenario. And it doesn't have to be extravagant like Cowboys or Yankee Stadiums, just needs to be state-of-the-art, and something that won't become dated in 20 years. The Constant Center at ODU is awesome, but small. Something like that, but with 20,000 seats, and with space for conventions and trade shows would be perfect. However, do not tear down Scope...that could still be used for the Admirals and high school basketball championships... Location? I say the old Norfolk Plaza parking lot, across from MacArthur Center Mall, although there might be concerns about the neighborhood surrounding it. One last thing...is Arena Football coming back or not? I think that would be something to consider with the proper facility. I don't count that Nighthawks venture from 10 years ago...bad promotion kinda hurt Norfolk on that one.

From the Portsmouth side, fall 2008 All three from December 2009