Sky06

Not sure where you're getting your facts from. I'd say Norfolk has far more large banks than Richmond. Most of the major banks serving this region are based in NC, particularly Charlotte. But when it comes to large regional banks, HR has quite a few: Towne Bank, Bank of Hampton Roads, Gateway Bank, Old Point National Bank, Bank of the Commonwealth, Heritage Bank, Monarch Bank, and others.

Some good points. Some not so good. We all need to understand that Waterside was successful early on because it was new and different. People had an option to that "same old mall in the burbs." It wasn't that things went downhill when the Fudgery or this or that left. The Fudgery and those other places of our "childhood" left after they started to see the newness, the excitement wearing off. What excited us at first no longer excited us. In fact, what was there originally was always destined to fail in my mind: cheap, overpriced clothing and specialty shops that just wouldn't cut it today. As for the changes that occurred later, the bars actually helped keep Waterside on life support for a long time. Whether you believe it or not, things would have been much worse if the city had not made the changes they made on the second level. Simply returning to what it was at the start just isn't the answer. Having said that, simply having a bar scene isn't the answer either. I do like the idea of a large open-air, family-friendly market, with fresh seafood, fresh veggies and fruits, places to pick out what you want and eat right there. All while making it fun for beer drinkers too (we're not evil by the way). But regardless of what you put in Waterside, basic issues have to be addressed. Putting an ESPNZone might draw interest, but it will fail if no one feels comfortable or wants to bother going downtown. Someone mentioned doing something that will last for 50 years. The only way that will happen, instead of having to reinvent the place year after year, is to address these issues. What are they (please add others as you see fit): (1) The look and feel needs to welcome you in. It can't be dark, dirty, or too plain. It needs a wow factor, and not necessarily the kind that costs tons of money. Some creativity would be nice. And kill the frickin' blue. (2) The site somehow needs to feel and be better connected to the park and the rest of downtown. I like the idea of imploding the Waterside garage and replacing either with a 2nd building, connected by a wide, uncovered walkway, or with a mixed use development consisting of some residential. The garage is a wall between downtown and the waterfront. Extending Waterside toward the street and buidling a real sidewalk sounds like a possible solution. and why not a moving walkway? (3) Connecting to downtown part 2. Walkways, running paths, etc. should provide for a continuous path all across DT, from Harbor Park, all the way to Freemason and beyond. (4) Add here.

How about those Admirals? 6-0-1 on a 7-game road trip, under their new coach. The went from 7th to 3rd.

My understanding is that this will be opening soon. Perhaps a few trees to blcok our view of the garage. But the main building isn't too terrible.

Interesting point. I've always had a problem with "city limits" signs in the first place. It says to me, "You're no longer in their town. Now, you're in ours." Just what Hampton Roads needs.

Baltimore's Inner Harbor was developed by the same guy who developed Waterside, James Rouse. Waterside was extremely successful for years, using the same concept. I agree with the concept that Waterside cannot succeed on its own. It has to be part of a larger effort to revitalize the area. Light rail will definitely be a plus, but the St. Paul's Quadrant will play a key role as well. The new places on Granby Street are encouraging. As are the announcements about the Union Mission, etc. But all it takes is 1 front-page article by the most negative newspaper in the country, and all the good things go unnoticed. If you live, work, or play downtown, join the DNC to see what you can to help. Just a thought.

Crap, this is what happens when you don't log in for a while. You think you have a scoop, and it's already old news. I just drove by there, the "For Sale or Lease" signs are down, lights are on, and apparently someone's inside working to get things ready. Yes, I used to go to Jack quinn's regularly. It was always packed. It was a shock when it closed. Obviously, the owners were trying to keep the Cinci location afloat.

I've said it a thousand times, and I'll say it again. I don't care who you put in office. This area is at a disadvantage compared to most other cities for 1 significant reason. There are just too many cities competing with one another. And it's unfair to compare a city like Charlotte to, say, downtown Norfolk. Everything in Charlotte is concentrated in 1 place. But here, office buildings and work centers are spread all over the place. Now, if you combined every downtown in Hampton Roads--Norfolk, Town Center, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Hampton, and say Oyster Point in NN--and put them in one place, this area would easily compare to those other cities in terms of the number of buildings, density, the amount of activity taking place, anything else you want to compare. Few metro areas are like Hampton Roads, a place of 7 significant-sized cities and multiple downtowns. The only place like this that comes to mind is DC. When you compare DC to a comparable city, you can't compare just downtown DC to, say, Philadelphia, because DC is more than that. It's also Crystal City, Rosslyn, Fairfax, Springfield, Tysons Corner, Bethesda, Silver Spring, and a host of other downtown and populous work centers. The big difference between DC and Hampton Roads (besides money) is the fact that they have 3 times the population, so it's not as much a problem for them. This area will continue to spread itself thin and stay, at least at first look, behind the power curve as long as we stay separate cities, each trying to be better than the rest.

Toward Va Beach and infinity:

Some progress pics. A few are a bit older. Trains and starting from Belmont area: Dowtown: Harbor Park:

There are some good points here. And although an ESPNZone or the like might be a name attraction, just having such a place isn't the whole answer. It's not just about what goes in there. It's just as much how the place feels, is accessed, and contributes to DT. There's already Jillians to watch sports, play games, eat, drink, people watch. You've got Hooters to watch games and girls. Plenty of national chains with food and beverages. In fact, Waterside downstairs used to have a big bar right in the middle of the floor (where the escalator to Jillians now is), where you could sit, have a microbrew, and watch your favorite game on cable. The problem is that at least whenever I went there, I was the only person there. Not matter what the place had, people had no interest in going to Waterside. Was it because it was in DT Norfolk? Too hard to find parking? Better places to go closer to home? Who knows. But several things are clear. 1. Whatever this place is, it needs to be a public space. Condos and office buildings will do nothing to attract visitors or blend in with TPP. 2. Whatever goes here, the building needs to be vastly cleaned, modernized, and brightened. It needs to be a welcoming place, no matter whether you're talking hooters or hot dogs. 3. It needs to be better connected to the park and where possible to the rest of downtown. There needs to be a natural connection from the park to the marketplace with doors, patios, and windows open to the outside spaces. For the other, maybe the Net needs to stop at the front door. Maybe a redesigned intersection is needed between the garage and Townebank. Maybe the garage should be rebuilt altogether and walkways and escalators leading from DT streets to a "North" building that crosses Waterside to the "south" building. I'm absolutely opposed to teen dancehalls, community rec centers, etc. But the answer isn't just what occupies the space. It's about how this place fits into DT and how we can get people to want to spend their Friday nights there. P.S., I'm not convinced that having "new and younger leadership" automatically equates to individuals who would agree with the posts on this site. Except in a few cases, when I think "young," I think "personally ambitious," "not committed to the area," and "not concerned with the community in the long run." Maybe I'm biased, but I just don't automatically see people who are concerned with design, with historic preservation, or even with building DT into a world-class area. Would a younger person have fought for light rail? Or would they have focused on something less important? Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Nothing against Monmouth's running game, but ODU beat themselves. They lost by 3. 1. Bad snap on a routine (for ODU's kicker) field goal attempt. No points. 2. Iladvised on-sides kick just 3 minutes into game with us leading 14-0. Led to a Monmouth TD. 3. Incomplete pass on Monmouth 35 (receiver wide open) with ball bouncing off reciever's chest and into defender's arms and then 40-yard return. Led to TD. 4. Lots of dropped passes. Still: These guys are doing pretty darn good for a first-year team of mostly freshmen. Gotta like the future.

Thanks.

This is a very interesting and historic building. Tearing it down to build another mid-rise building is not only counter-productive but also extremely dangerous politically at this point. Much has been said in the press about Norfolk's actions elsewhere. This would be an even bigger story--front page without a doubt. I agree with vdogg's comment above. Save the new buildings for SPQ.

I got it, but that's why it takes some planning and some give and take. I think you miss my point when I say "What difference does it make?" My point there is no matter where you put the arena, the entire region could benefit as long as the proper planning were done. However, for some reason, cities around here think they can't benefit at all as long as the facility is 1 mile away on the other side of the city line. And because we have multiple cities, it's absolutely necessary that we stop trying to go things alone. The questions you raise above are certainly valid, but where this region has failed in the past is that our cities just don't know how to cooperate and compete as a region against other united regions. They only think of themselves. Gee, look at high speed rail for a recent example. Everyone wants the diamond in their city or it's a no-go. Everyone wants 90% of revenues, or you can count me out. No one wants to give a little. Regardless of taxes, of revenues, of money, cooperation has worked very well in other regions. Share the costs and risks, share the benefits. In fact, many regions are beginning to develop revenue-sharing agreements for economic development in general. Sure, the devil's in the details, but we're all big boys and girls. We can figure this out if we really wanted to. Imagine what this region could do if it worked together in that arena (no pun intended)?

I'd prefer DT, but it this meant getting VB on board, I'd take it.

Yeh, I guess having a cruise center is same all same all. Like getting a downtown ballpark, shopping mall, college campus, upscale grocery store, renovated park, and everything else. Gee, when are we going to get a Chick-Fil-a?

I agree. I would have preferred renovating the Kirn, building a track right through the building, and converting the space into offices, shops, restuarants, and a terminal equipped with newstands and the like. But as been said before, this may well be temporary. Agree.

Getting an expansion team might be difficult. A more likely scenario would be to go for a relocation franchise, as was mentioned with the Expos. A team in a comparable-sized city that doesn't draw that well. There are actually quite a few of those. Nevertheless, I'd agree that an arena would be needed first. But Norfolk probably couldn't and shouldn't go it alone. Imagine the no-taxes crowd getting a hold of that one. The problem is the cities around here argue too much about the location. What difference does that make really? The entire region could benefit, so we shouldn't be squabbling with each other over petty things. Hell, why not tear down the crappy shopping centers across from Military Circle? The corner of I-264 and Mil Hwy could be ideal with improved access. And you're not more than a mile from Norfolk, VB, or Chesapeake. What would there be to complain about?

Because most of the other projects are small compared to St. Paul's.

You are kidding, right? Plain Jane chains is not what Waterside needs. People will ignore those faster than they did all the original places. I find it funny that everyone talks about "going back" to the old Waterside. As stated above, it needs to go back to having mostly eateries. Hell, that's pretty much what Wateride has always had. We seem to be reminiscing about the good ole days of . . . 3 months ago. It's not the city that's running them out. These places are leaving because nobody wants to go there anymore. Sure, I'm all for cleaning and moderninzing the place so it's more appealing. But the place has always been dark and kind of nasty. That didn't stop people from packing the place year after year. Over time, people have simply lost interest. Some of you say the city has failed to provide entertainment like VB. Heck, Norfolk invented it . . not VB. But does anyone care? And please, don't blame the bars. The bars came in 10 years ago. And they all did great for many years. In fact, they saved the place from dying a long time ago. Personally, I liked the food places that used to be at Waterside. Pretty good food. Very good variety. Every place served imported or microbrewery beer. But I found myself more often than not eating all by my lonesome. Waterside hasn't gone down hill because of any store changes. Or even because of what it lacks. It's the other way around. Changes are happening because the place is struggling to survive. I always felt that Waterside put a pretty good product out there . . . but people ignored it. And I truly believe that if Waterside implemented 95% of the suggestions mentioned on this site, people would still ignore it. No, not because it doesn't have a Chic Fil a. Not because it's an ugly building. Not because it doesn't have this or that. Who knows? Maybe we're all just too good for it. But here's something I've always noticed about this town that just makes me scratch my head: Why is it we hate things when they're here and love them after they're gone?

Dropped by Foreman Field today. The transformation continues. The massive, high-tech scoreboard is going up. And I do mean "massive."

Sounds like it has character. There are 1 or 2 new places on 21st Street near Taphouse as well. Not sure of the names.

I think the Wright Brothers' neighbors said the same thing. Except it was Montgomery Ward, not Flipper Mccoys.