scm

Well, then get the pens out. If Paul Fraim mentioned it, then all must align with his thinking. I see that his desires to keep DePaul as Norfolk's exclusive charity hospital got deservedly thrown out on their keester. Guess the Mighty Oz isn't all that powerful in many realms. If Portsmouth wants LR extended (and it appears Ken Chandler does -- he worked in Arlington, so he sees what TOD could do for Portsmouth), then it will be politically unthinkable to spend more money in Norfolk until you get other cities desires met. I applaud Norfolk for stepping up to the plate and making the money available for the initial local portion. But it is "Hampton Roads" Transit, not "Norfolk" Transit. I am willing to bet you get some segment operating in VB before this ODU alignment happens -- just because of the politics. All you fanciful thinkers need to look at where the traffic originates from, and where it is destined. LR is a solution to congestion, and an alternative to SOV usage. The capital investment required demands ROI -- and that is SOV trips removed from the roads. It isn't for "international students" to discover downtown. It has to offer something SOV travel doesn't offer -- regained time. it does that by traveling on dedicated ROW -- not city streets. it does that by moving large densities of travelers through our water chokepoints. It does that by getting SOVs out of the section of 264 between Pembroke and 64, Indian River and 64, and 64 up to Tidewater Drive (except for bridges and tunnels, our only real congestion) -- by offering faster travel. And that won't happen at street level.

It may be "big", but it isn't even in the top two. #1 destination -- San Antonio. #2 -- Tampa. What both of those places have, which HR lacks, is warm weather, no state income tax, and military health care that is more accessible to retirees (I won't get into how that works -- just that retirees don't have the acccess to on base care here that they do in Tampa or especially SA). Again, unless your kids or grand kids are here, military retirees will not stay here. Many "retired" military will stay here for jobs, especially since they can retire from active duty, then take those same skill sets and walk right back in as a civil servant or contractor due to the large number of senior commands in this area. We are talking about 40-55 year olds, in a second career. If that is your idea of "retirement home" residents, then I guess we have a different definition of that word. And that is OK. Interesting piece on this weekend's Today show about weekend destinations. The reporter chose Minneapolis-St. Paul, and she came clean about why -- her parents retired and bought a loft in the "Warehouse District". She's sitting there, just before she, her parents, and their friends were headed out to dinner and a jazz club, all within walking distance -- which her parents do frequently. She says, "Guess you aren't the boring people I thought you were when I was growing up." St. Paul's, as an entertainment district, can be attractive to a broad age range of residents.

Well, the one who will know is the owner of the establishment. He's the one paying for any venue to stay open, and if the high margin liquor sales stop, then there is no incentive for him to keep the overhead meter running -- paying staff, paying utilities -- heck, I would bet the band would want more money. You might stay --- there aren't enough like you to pay the bills. Watching a TV show the other night -- showed things to do in LA. Goes to this really cool martini bar. I asked my wife "why don't we have something cool like that here?" Got past the "because there aren't enough cool people here" and got to the real reason -- the antiquated VA liquor laws. No bars here -- just restaurants that serve alcohol.

That is the wrong solution, for three reasons: 1. There is nothing to that route alignment that can't be accomplished by bus service, connecting to the Medical Center LR stop (which has bus bays in the plan). The traffic generator there is the NS -- and LR passengers would have to switch to bus to get to their on base destination anyway. And, based on current SOV utilization rates, I'm not sure there would be much ridership anyway. 2. No possiblity for dedicated LR ROW on that route -- as a consequence, you have nothing more than a street car. Which gets back to #1. 3. That alignment isn't in the HRT master plan, for a good reason. That plan calls for LR up the 64 HOV lanes. Dedicated ROW, and much closer to the origination and destination of most NS traffic. They don't start in downtown Norfolk -- they start at VB. There isn't an attraction to ride at street level, all the way from Pembroke to the NS. The HOV lanes route might get the NS population out of their SOVs. Street level never will. As far as the peninsula, nothing will happen until the Third Crossing gets funded. The peninsula doesn't have the generators to make LR work -- until you provide a way for commuters to get across the water. 2017 at the earliest. By then, LR will run from the oceanfront to NNSY via the Midtown --- and possibly up the HOV lanes to the NS.

If you can't serve alcohol past 2 AM (state law), then why would a venue want to stay open? And would people really stay if they can't even consume past 2 (also state law).

What in the world makes Norfolk attractive as a retirement home? There is only one reason I know of to retire here -- that is because your kids and grandkids all live here. Other than that, there isn't any attraction to HR as a retirement home. I think you'd be surprised to learn how college towns (Charlottesville and Durham, for example) are the new high demand retirement destinations. Retirees are attracted to the education and cultural offerings in those towns. Also, many are moving into urban settings for easy access to services. Effective mass transportation is a big attraction for retirees. I realize there is some level of hyperbole in your statement. But a little bit of stereotyping as well.

PMI Group's U.S. Market Risk Index gives a 40% likelihood of home price declines in two years for the Hampton Roads metropolitan statistical area HR potential for price declines ranked right beside San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA, Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA, Nassau-Suffolk, NY and San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, CA. Chief culprits in the HR's high ranking were slowing price appreciation, and little to no increase in affordability. The entire report is available here.

For the life of me, I simply don't understand the prevailing mindset among many, especially from VB, who want so desperately for Norfolk and Portsmouth to remain the dumping grounds of the region. It seems as though many VB residents draw their civic pride from just being better than Norfolk and Portsmouth, instead of reaching for a higher goal -- be better than Raleigh or Austin, even. Talk to a New Yorker and they will tell you there is no better city in the world (a debatable topic, but one they make confidently!). Based on many of the repeated comments to the VP's stories, the VB (and to some extent, Chesapeake and Suffolk as well) position is, "Well, at least we aren't Norfolk or Portsmouth." I know the history of how PA County was annexed to create VB, and I know the proximate cause. It would seem that it is time to get past it. We might have been independant in the past -- today, all of the communities of HR are interdependant. Unfortunatly, many attitudes here are locked in the past.

Might be time for Vdogg to start a Park Place thread when he gets back. PP is a high potential neighborhood, especially as ODU transitions into a residental campus. There will be expanded demand for student housing that on-campus will never meet, as well as student focused retail. I could see 35th becoming THE student population retail street.

East West was chosen this summer to redevelop a former low income housing project in Charleston, Ansonborough Homes. Novel approach to many of the same problems as Tidewater Gardens. Has the city ever thought about putting the entire quadrant out for RFP? Developer to pay $16M for Concord Park if deal OK'd

sad day in the annals of VB restaurants -- today marks the end of the road for Ocean Eddie's, closing after over 50 years. It was a place without pretension, yet never being second rate at anything. The drinks were excellent, the food, simple, but prepared to perfection. The bands, professional and always entertaining. The setting -- irreplacable. Closed today at 4. Employee party tomorrow, then that's it.

Site prep continues -- signs are up. Here is a link to renderings. SFRs (pretty small lots, however), starting at $300K.

Well, sometime, Norfolk is going to have to address the woeful lack of park acreage. Currently, it ranks next to last in the HR MSA in acreage per 1,000 residents -- 3.61/1000 (only P'mouth is lower at 1.84). Peer competitor cities rank much higher -- Charlotte, 27.0, Raleigh 35.6, Columbus 18.0, Indianapolis, 14.2, Austin, 38.5. There are no city parks to speak of south of Little Creek Road, and only Town Point south of Princess Anne. All of this housing density going into downtown raises the demand for open space, and this is the largest space the city is going to get their hands on in the forseeable future (except for Bay Oaks -- another potential park N. of Little Creek Road!). I'm not talking about the whole thing -- maybe only 15-20 acres?

Rus, you and I couldn't agree more. If they do suburban low density ala Broad Creek, I will puke. And where did this idea for a park and ride come from? It is wrong on so many levels. First, what is the need? Where will the 675 cars come from? Where will they be going on the light rail? Newtown Road? Maybe in the future, Town Center or the Oceanfront? Second, do they really think 675 single occupancy vehicles will park in a lot that is two blocks from the closest LR station? Why not just establish a P&R at Harbor Park, if that is what they are after? Third, and tied into both, is why won't these folks just board a bus at their origination and connect to LR at Harbor Park? The better use for that site is as a signature city park -- sort of Norfolk's smaller version of Central Park or Lincoln Park in Chicago. We, as a nation, got away from public parks after WWII when we started towards SFRs. Effectively, we each had our own mini-park in our backyards. If we are going to make density work, then we need to have outlets for all of the activities that occur in suburban backyards. Downtown is the natural place for density -- LR makes density make sense, and density makes LR make sense. Just think how beautiful that would be -- St. Pauls to Fenchurch, and south of Wood (except for the exisiting building at the corner) -- all landscaped. Trucks over three axles barred on St. Paul's, except for local deliveries -- make it a real boulevard. East side of Fenchurch, four to six story condos, like those on the west side of St. Paul. The rest of residental in the quadrant could be four plexes, like Andr

Tulsa is a real demographic anomaly, and flies in the face of all of the pre-concieved notions of Oklahoma. The demographics there are significantly more attractive to retailers than Norfolk. For instance, Tulsa median household income -- $42K, Norfolk -- $31.8. Per capita income, Tulsa -- $22K, Norfolk -- $13.3K. Whole Foods bases much of their site selection on #s of college grads in the area. Tulsa -- 29.4% college degree (of some type), Norfolk -- 23.9%. Those numbers are why there are retailers in Tulsa that aren't here -- Saks, Brooks Brothers (real store, not the 349 lower end), Polo Shop. There is nothing here to compare to Utica Square -- because there aren't the same kind of shoppers here.

That would be interesting -- from the Portsmouth side, you could use the height inspection lanes. I am almost certain they are accessible from both merge points that back up in the morning (at least I am sure from the W. Norfolk bridge side -- not so certain from the N. bound on MLK side.) Would need to determine where all that traffic is bound, however. My intuition says that only a few are going to downtown -- most to the NS and ODU. Most of the W. Norfolk bridge backup comes over the MMBT to avoid the HRBT on their way to the NS. Also could start that before the LR line starts, then just tie it to the bus bays that will be constructed at the Medical Center LR station -- express bus from a Park and Ride, say at the new MAST center area at College and Western Freeway and at Midtown Shopping Center to the MC station, change to LR or the expanded bus service up Hampton to ODU and the NS. Back in the evening via the Claremont access mike_25andj suggested -- and the gate would be just like the ones at the airport rental lots -- opened with a garage door opener -- and a video camera to catch violators! For now, just start from Park and Ride lots to the NS and ODU to gauge ridership. A few folks stopped on the W. Norfolk seeing that bus whip past them might find transit religion.

OK, had some time over lunch to research my own question, and I think the answers aren't pretty. Nagoya, Japan, has a maglev metro line up and running. Covers 8.9 km (5.3 mi), nine stations -- similar to the Tide (but much shorter). Cost? $962 M, or about $180M per mile. Munich just last week announced last week a new Maglev line like the Shanghai line -- railway station to the airport. 38 km, two stations. Cost? $2.6B, or $114M per mile. I just don't see that happening here.

I had the chance Saturday to visit the new FF in HH, and it is like nothing else in HR. The produce section is unmatched, and is pretty close to Wegman's for variety. There are plenty of items in there that are not reliably available in any other store in HR -- fava beans, multiple types of eggplant, including Thai. Jicama, all types of root veggies, all types of minis --- corn, zucchini, carrots, etc.. About the only thing they don't have, that you can reliably find at Wegman's is Treviso radicchio -- and when I mentioned it to the produce guy, he said they would look into carrying it. He said their goal is to have stuff no one else has, and they do -- even bigger selection than Fresh Market -- and more surprising since FF usually has the crappy produce sections, only marginally better than Food Lion. Also, their cheese selection is unmatched -- again, surpassing Fresh Market. At least six different types of French goat cheese, three or four different brands of French Camembert, dolce and piccante gorgonzola, and on and on and on. Once the word gets out, foodies will drive from VB for the things you just can't get anywhere else. Interesting the things that people here judged the store by -- I found the produce and cheese sections unparalleled, and never even looked at the salad bar!

I'm curious -- how much would it have cost to build this starter segment as maglev? Is there any example in the world of a maglev metro? I know about the maglev demo project in Germany (even seen it -- but not operating). But it is an intercity train, not a metro. Can maglev work in an urban environment?

What you want to do involves the following: New construction bridge across the Eastern branch, east of the Berkley bridge.. Tunnel under 264 (since there isn't a place to build west of 264 -- the Berkley landing would be in Metro Machine, and the Norfolk landing in the Sheraton). Then a bridge (which the Navy would probably never let be built) that would wipe out large portions of BAE's shipyard -- all to land on the south side of 264 with no way back to High Street, except under 264 at Effingham? I won't even get into the operational problems with that -- up/down, tight turns, etc. And you are convinced two bridges and a tunnel under 464 are cheaper than adding two more tubes when you are already building two at the Midtown? I will bet the cost of those two tubes will only add $100M to the $400 for the Midtown. Pinners Point and the new West Norfolk bridge were $140M - you can build two bridges and a tunnel for less than that? Remember that once tolled, the Midtown and Downtown are net revenue generators. That revenue excess could pay for the LR tubes.

Well, #1 -- Federal Railway Administration regulations prohibit LR cars from running on the same lines as rail cars, and I don't think you will get NS to abandon that line as it is the chief route to the coal loading yards at Lambert's Point. #2 -- that route gets nowhere near the chief traffic generators in P'mouth -- the Navy Hospital and the Shipyard. Just try to drive down Effingham towards I-264 at 4 PM and you will see the problem. The right route goes from the Midtown, down Harper Ave (parallel to Scott's Creek), south along the west side of Shea Terrace and just east of the MLK Freeway, then to London, east to Effingham, then down Effingham to the Shipyard. #3 -- your route has no opportunity for TOD in Portsmouth. My route has plenty -- will make Port Norfolk and Shea Terrance affordable housing alternatives with quick connections to Norfolk as well as to the Shipyard. Would spur redevelopment in Prentiss Park and Newtown. I don't see any chance for Portsmouth's city leadership to line up for your routing since it doesn't do anything for Portsmouth.

Caution: If you have been here awhile, the you might know I am a big believer in Dr. Richard Florida's work on the Creative Class theory of growth. Two examples of how cities have integrated this into their economic development are here: Benchmarking the Creative Class in Arlington, Virginia and here: Creative TampaBay The Tampa Bay region has come to realize just this, and has taken positive steps to create that feeling by the formation of the Creative TampaBay group. They have commissioned some interesting research, and I would wonder what the same type of analysis would produce in HR. You can't know how to get somewhere unless you know where you are starting from.

My only wish is that your views were reflected in the priorities of the HRTA. The absence of capital spending on any mass transit, except the multi modal tubes included in the expanded MMBT, concerns me. I have serious questions about the $1.1B for a SE Parkway. Where is the ROI on that to the current residents of HR who are expected to pay for it? What transportation improvements could we accomplish if we spent that $1.1B on LR capital projects? There is too much in the entire HRTA package that won't improve quality of life. Look at where the current bottlenecks are in HR, then tell me what of the $8.9B that we all will pay goes to relieve those bottlenecks. Quick answer is not much.

My wife attended a presentation by Kenneth Chandler, the new P'mouth City Manager. He had previously worked in Arlington, VA, and was comparing the two cities. He was saying that P'mouth is where Arlington was fifty years ago, and decisions made today would have effects fifty years from now. His illustration was the Metro line that runs down Wilson Blvd and Fairfax Dr., and makes the whole development chain -- Court House, Clarendon Commons, and Ballston -- what it is today. The initial decisions on that Metro route and the alignment were made in 1946. Same thing on Midtown LR tubes. If they don't go in when the Midtown is expanded, then they won't go in for years, if ever. Too hard to go back and re-do.

Being a guy that likes to see numbers, I went and looked at the BLS stats on IT wages in HR vs. other areas. Interesting data that shows, on average, IT jobs in HR earn almost $20K less than in NoVA. Table is below, but the question is why? Completely dismissing Tel's rant against "cranky old people" setting wages too low, my experience is that the prospective employees set the rates. If there wasn't a supply of folks, with skills adequate to do the work, willing to take these jobs for $20K less, then all of the "cranky old people" would find their positions empty. Obviously, they don't Is it worth $20K less to live here? If so, why?.