I-75 in Cobb and Cherokee going to 23! lanes

[LizellaJacket]

Stupid.

Boy thats a good idea. How bout mass transit for a change. I know some people will say, well it's needed. Ok, but when does it stop 30 lanes?.....40 lanes?....how bout we just pave the entire metro area.

[bfermanich]

Look... You gotta do what you gotta do.

Yeah, its almost silly when you look at the numbers. But we're talking about a huge transportation corridor serving the entire northwest metro area. Thats a big area and there is no doubt something needs to be done about traffic congestion. When they say that it will take 23 lanes to remedy this problem I believe them. Do I think its the best solution? No. But then again you have to deal with reality. Mass transit in Atlanta is really a non-issue. People have voted with their lifestyles. If we spent $10 billion extending MARTA up I-75 it wouldn't solve the traffic issue, OK? The people have spoken and they want their cars and SUV's and such. So I say lets give them what they want. Besides, maybe we'll break a world record for most lanes on an interstate or something. That would be cool.

[Andrea]

There are plenty of lanes already, the problem is with gross insufficiencies at the nodes -- i.e., the intersections where you get on and off the freeways, and the connecting roads that surround them. That's where traffic bogs down.

Frankly, adding more lanes is simply going to make the situation worse, because it fails to address the intersections and actually makes them even more difficult to traverse.

Let's say your kitchen sink starts backing up because the trap is clogged. Do you need to hook up a bigger water pipe to bring more water into the sink? Or is it better to unclog the trap?

[bfermanich]

Let's say your kitchen sink starts backing up because the trap is clogged. Do you need to hook up a bigger water pipe to bring more water into the sink? Or is it better to unclog the trap?

I say forget unclogging the trap. Take out the old one and drill a 8" hole into the bottom of the sink. THEN attach a big 8" Ductile Iron on that baby -- no trap. Now you're cookin.

I mean what the heck are you going to do about I-75? It needs to be expanded -- intersections, off ramps, more lanes, bottlenecks-- everything. As I mentioned, mass transit isn't popular around here, unfortunately. Welcome to Atlanta.

[Andrea]

^^Hm, I'll have to admit the thought of mass transit never crossed my mind. How could you make that work in Cobb County?

What I'm talking about is simply a matter of intelligent road design -- you don't resolve traffic jams at the nodes by adding lanes between them. You solve them by relieving the nodes themselves.

You live in Cobb County, don't you? Aren't the worst traffic messes the result of backups, slowdowns and lack of capacity at the intersections? If you're heading north on I-75 and want to get off at the South 120 Loop, does it help you if there are suddenly an extra 5 northbound lanes on each side of you full of people wanting to get off at the same exit?

[Newnan]

commuter rail lines. There has to be more transportation options in Metro Atlanta

[Andrea]

commuter rail lines.

But commuter rail lines from where to where, Newnan? The vast majority of people live in one suburb and commute to another. It's not like they're all headed into the city.

[ironchapman]

But commuter rail lines from where to where, Newnan? The vast majority of people live in one suburb and commute to another. It's not like they're all headed into the city.

We also have to remember that the idea of commuter rail isn't exactly popular around here.

Also, I wonder how much commuter rail would actually solve. Cities still would have the traffic jam problem, probably. I mean, I went to Chicago, which has some of the best transit options in the US for both the city and metro, and still spent the better part of the afternoon on a freeway.

23 lanes is absolutely ridiculous.

[sanka]

at least the people in those cities with working mass transit have a choice...23 lanes is just our city officials saying "keep your car, its your only choice"

[monsoon]

....

23 lanes is absolutely ridiculous.

In the next century, if mankind manages to survive until then, they will use this as an example of a society that will do anything to meet the needs of lifestyle choices that are not sustainable. The way you get people on transit is not to make it easier to drive on a highway.

Just as a point of comparison, there is no highway even close to this in size in the metropolitan Tokyo area and that metro has 32 million people.

[Newnan]

Does anyone know if the Beltline is definite yet?

just thinking, if the traffic in Metro Atlanta is this bad when we haven't even hit 5 million, what will the traffic be like if we don't encourage mass transit when the region has around 8 million?

[ironchapman]

Does anyone know if the Beltline is definite yet?

Technically it is since it was passed by the three boards that were needed to pass it did. However, the project as a whole is so big and so far off in the future that to say it is definite is somewhat foolish.

But I hardly think it will help the metro much.

just thinking, if the traffic in Metro Atlanta is this bad when we haven't even hit 5 million, what will the traffic be like if we don't encourage mass transit when the region has around 8 million?

We should take a look at LA.

[teshadoh]

The article missed the main points I mentioned earlier in the week on another thread. The project will include dual HOV lanes each way & dual truck only lanes each way - 4 total non-traditional car lanes on 75. Plus with the extra width between the HOV lanes on the inside from the rest of traffic & also another wide seperation between the truck lanes on the outside (don't know how that will work with oncoming traffic) this will DOUBLE the actual size of the freeway to 350 feet! Meaning most of what you see adjacent to the freeway won't be there anymore & any building that borders the freeway could actually be torn down. Of course - every intersection will have to be completely rebuilt including every bridge.

That's GA DOT for you...

[Martinman]

If adding lanes were the answer to traffic problems then Atlanta would be among the least congested metros in the country rather than ranking near the top of every congestion measure. Roads have been the singular focus of the state when it comes to transportation and apparently its going to take the citizens of the metro making it a political issue (like the Northern Arc) in the upcoming election for any of these people to get half of a clue!

[foxmccleod]

What do you do with 23 lanes once the oil supply is exhausted?

Better yet, why has GDOT not been overhauled? From discussions with city planners and transit planners, no one seems to be partial to their "solutions" (8 lane divided highway along 14th street anyone?). Talk about a planning body with seemingly no one's interests in mind.

[derrickskugler]

What do you do with 23 lanes once the oil supply is exhausted?

Um... drive alternative-fueled vehicles on them? It's not as if the car is going away. Good lord.

This is something that will help Cobb County and the northwest corridor. This is also something that will be ugly for a very, very long time. It takes the GDOT 2 years to re-paint the lines on an off-ramp. We'll all be dead and gone before this is ever finished. :->

In all seriousness, yes, it would be great to include a MARTA line up the middle of I-75, but it's not going to happen... so we might as well look at the options that WILL happen, rather than spend all of our time beotching and moaning about what we thinking SHOULD happen. We'd all be alot happier, and progress would actually... well... progress...

[Hybrid0NE]

If you build it, they will come.

First they'd worsen traffic while building this mammoth retrofit and then only temporary relieve congestion until all the new sprawl fills it more traffic. I think part of the problem is GDOT is using a "backwoods" mentality in an urban enviroment. Take a look a what foxmccleod said, a major Midtown artery was under consideration to be converted into a divided highway. Forget the fact they wanted to make it 8 lanes, they planned this in one of the most pedestrian friendly and mixed used districts in the region. That's pure insanity from my perspective.

I don't care if they inflate I-75 since it's too far from my home to take eminent domain and Cobb Parkway/Northside Parkway/Drive provides a more pleasant trip regularly. It would be nice if the GDOT could be split into to sectors, one that focuses on solutions for Metro Atlanta and the other for the rest of the state. They be better if they hired some consultants, engineerers or whatever with experience in San Francisco, New York City, Seattle, etc. to give them a better idea of what would work in our enviroment.

[Andrea]

What do you do with 23 lanes once the oil supply is exhausted?

Um... drive alternative-fueled vehicles on them? It's not as if the car is going away. Good lord.

That makes sense. If we're going to 23 lanes, why not just go ahead and acquire the right of way and do the grading for 50 or 75 lanes? We'll use them eventually, and it seems like there would be certain economies of scale.

[Lady Celeste]

So what are they going to do with I-575? I can't see Cherokee wanting to expand this expressway any more than it already is.

[Relient J]

It seems to me that the people travelling from Cobb into the city or to wherever they're going seem pretty satisfied with the arrangement. If it's really so stressful to sit in traffic for massive amounts of time, wouldn't they just move closer to their Point B location? Maybe if the traffic situation gets to a critical mass it'll force people into higher density living.

[foxmccleod]

What do you do with 23 lanes once the oil supply is exhausted?

Um... drive alternative-fueled vehicles on them? It's not as if the car is going away. Good lord.

Of course alternative-fueled vehicles will be driven upon them. That was not the point. I'll concede that perhaps, yes, more traffic arteries are required. Unless growth around the world stagnates, this is to inevitable. However, the point is merely that growth, being for all intents and purposes continual, will continue to occur, but a constant widening is not sustainable, regardless of what fuel source is being employed. This supercedes my statement about oil running out, but the argument stands. We are poised to surpass the current maximum highway width in the world, and that is worrisome. If one were to state that that sector of the country somehow moves the greatest volume of freight, etc in the world, then I could forsee the need for becoming the widest section of highway worldwide. I highly doubt that to be the case.

Therefore, it would be sensible to rethink the proposal. Transit is an inevitability I would argue in this case. If it can be hauled by truck, its highly likely it can be hauled by rail. A 25 year plan is great, but at the rate growth is occurring, a 50 or 100 year examination of traffic needs might be more plausible.

Or, we could revisit automated highways. At any rate, short-sighted, quick fixes rarely do anything more than make the problem even worse later on.

[SAV]

This is like giving a sick person the same medicine over and over again. Instead of getting better the person gets sicker. People........... we need a new antidote

[teshadoh]

Unfortunately the GA DOT is partly basing the need for this expansion on a alternate transportation system - BRT. But the BRT being pushed for is far from being a system that could encourage TOD or transit/ped friendly development, but again - a freaking commuter system.

[Hybrid0NE]

That bottleneck this will create at 285 and the remainder of I-75 to the Connector is going to be interesting. Will the Connector eventually need to be double-decked to handle all the new traffic pouring in from the Northwest? It's not like they can do a 40 lane freeway downtown (well they could but Georgia Tech won't give into eminent domain and I'd hate to see One Atlantic Center torn down).

[Lady Celeste]

That bottleneck this will create at 285 and the remainder of I-75 to the Connector is going to be interesting. Will the Connector eventually need to be double-decked to handle all the new traffic pouring in from the Northwest? It's not like they can do a 40 lane freeway downtown (well they could but Georgia Tech won't give into eminent domain and I'd hate to see One Atlantic Center torn down).

That's a good question Hybrid. I am guessing that the GDOT of transportation's thinking is this....

It won't be a bottleneck per se because most of the lanes proposed are geared specifically for thru traffic coming from the perimeter heading north or going towards the perimeter heading south. Many of the lanes will be diverted to I-285 east or west thereby alleviating any expected bottlenecks. There is no need for truck lanes inside the perimeter because there has been a long standing law prohibiting truck traffic inside the perimeter....unless said truck has to make a dilevery or pickup inside the perimeter. All the truck lanes will go towards the perimeter. HOV lanes will merge to one lane as it already is inside the perimeter.

That's just what I'm thinking their response will be.

For people who don't aren't quite familiar with the location of the propsed expansion, here ya go: