City of Hudsonville "Striving to serve God"

[OneSweetWorld]

Apparently, a group out of Wisonsin wants the city of Hudsonville to remove the phrase "strive to serve God" from the city's mission statement.

Mlive

"It "is not the business of a city in our secular republic to 'strive to serve God,'" the group wrote in a letter to the city early this month. "A city should have no religious beliefs.".....[City mayor] Don Van Doeselaar said he consulted with city attorney Dick Wendt, who determined the city was within its rights.

I think the group from Wisconsin is confusing the First Amendment's right of "Freedom of Religion" with "Freedom from Religion". Hudsonville is a pretty conservative city, so I don't see many of the citizens supporting the removal of this phrase.

What do you guys think?

[NorthEnder]

Apparently, a group out of Wisonsin wants the city of Hudsonville to remove the phrase "strive to serve God" from the city's mission statement.

Mlive

"It "is not the business of a city in our secular republic to 'strive to serve God,'" the group wrote in a letter to the city early this month. "A city should have no religious beliefs.".....[City mayor] Don Van Doeselaar said he consulted with city attorney Dick Wendt, who determined the city was within its rights.

I think the group from Wisconsin is confusing the First Amendment's right of "Freedom of Religion" with "Freedom from Religion". Hudsonville is a pretty conservative city, so I don't see many of the citizens supporting the removal of this phrase.

What do you guys think?

[Talking Up GR]

Actually, the only reason that this group got involved in the first place is that they were contacted by a Hudsonville resident. It's hard to find one belief system that EVERYONE subscribes to.

Official government establishment and/or endorsement of any one belief system over another is problematic. Besides, shouldn't the mission of a small town be to provide things like police/fire/etc.?

[OneSweetWorld]

Actually, the only reason that this group got involved in the first place is that they were contacted by a Hudsonville resident. It's hard to find one belief system that EVERYONE subscribes to.

Official government establishment and/or endorsement of any one belief system over another is problematic. Besides, shouldn't the mission of a small town be to provide things like police/fire/etc.?

[GRDadof3]

Shouldn't it be "Striving to serve the taxpayers of Hudsonville"? I think it's interesting that a Hudsonville citizen complained about it. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for something like that in unfriendly waters.

[Rizzo]

Shouldn't it be "Striving to serve the taxpayers of Hudsonville"? I think it's interesting that a Hudsonville citizen complained about it. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for something like that in unfriendly waters.

[AlexPKeaton]

I don't think the intent of the separation of church and state was to remove all religious references from government. I guess in practice it has to, however, or it becomes a slippery slope.

It seems silly to deny our own cultural heritage for the sake of being politically correct.

[Yankee Fan]

Shouldn't it be "Striving to serve the taxpayers of Hudsonville"? I think it's interesting that a Hudsonville citizen complained about it. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for something like that in unfriendly waters.

[NorthCoast]

Referenced text of the First Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof [...]"

- Source

Additionally, the Supreme Court has upheld that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the limitations of the First Amendment to restrict also the states.

[GRDadof3]

I was unaware that Hudsonville had a tax.

Courage would have been to stand up without staying anonymous and without using a third party.

Maybe we could encourage a third party to fight for our right to drive on roads that are free from potholes.

[NorthCoast]

I'll agree that they should have come out in public. Maybe even a billboard campaign.

[francishsu]

I think there's a good chance the mission statement will be ruled unconstitutional, if this goes to court. Does anyone think that a mission statement "striving to serve God" adopted by a public school would be upheld by the courts?

[NorthCoast]

I think there's a good chance the mission statement will be ruled unconstitutional, if this goes to court. Does anyone think that a mission statement "striving to serve God" adopted by a public school would be upheld by the courts?

[NorthCoast]

I must point out the historic court case of Everson V. Board of Education 330 U.S.1 (1947). The case is most poignant to this discussion (and the current court's interpretation) because of the position that the entire court adopted on the Establishment Clause. Their position is as follows;

- http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/hi...30_0001_ZO.html

[OneSweetWorld]

I will also state again, the context that the City of Hudsonville is using the phrase is not officially establishing any sort of official religion. The argument cannot even be made for a de facto religion due to the fact that God is present in mulitple religions, not just Christianity.

[Sailor]

Obviously, the original complainant who contacted the organization in Wisconsin felt so intimidated or fearful that he/she did not feel able to publicly oppose the wording. In that regard alone -- that a resident was afraid -- Hudsonville officials should honestly look at how they operate.

Let's be honest. In some pockets of our community, people are personally and professionally threatened when publicly opposing anything having to do with religion, and that's wrong.

[NorthCoast]

An evolutionist would argue that THEIR creator just so happens to be the center of distant and long ago stars that compressed simple elements into the complex elements that now make up our bodies. I think the founding fathers, in that sentence, were taking a hands off approach to declaring where a person's unalienable rights come from.

A earlier post of your's

I must point out that Judaism and Islam both view the Christian concept of The Trinity as polytheistic and would most certainly denounce a comparsion between 'their' monotheistic religions and Christianity.

Muslims take an even harsher stance than Jews against the 'Christian Polytheism' by saying that polytheism is the greastest of sins.

- http://quranicteachings.co.uk/shirk.htm

[NorthCoast]

Obviously, the original complainant who contacted the organization in Wisconsin felt so intimidated or fearful that he/she did not feel able to publicly oppose the wording. In that regard alone -- that a resident was afraid -- Hudsonville officials should honestly look at how they operate.

Let's be honest. In some pockets of our community, people are personally and professionally threatened when publicly opposing anything having to do with religion, and that's wrong.

[fotoman311]

Thank you also. I enjoy a good debate with a knowledgeable person.

[Talking Up GR]

This most certainly DOES read as an endorsement of Christianity. Observant Jews wouldn't have the name of "G-d" in print, and I don't see Allah mentioned anywhere.

Will they try to advance the anti-Communism argument? That's how "under God" got into the Pledge of Allegiance... during the Red Scare, decades after the Pledge was written.

[francishsu]

I don't think a phrase would hold up like that in public schools because you are dealing with an entity involved with shaping young, impressionable minds. A case there could be made that any type of religious reference would be an attempt to persuade a child's beliefs. In terms of the city itself though, you are dealing with educated, tax-paying adults. I still am failing to see any violation of the Constituion here.

[blueradon]

i think all of this is stupid. don't we have better things to do, and other things that are a little more important to worry about? like our economy?

geesh.

[Talking Up GR]

i think all of this is stupid. don't we have better things to do, and other things that are a little more important to worry about? like our economy?

geesh.

[GR_Urbanist]

Nothing wrong with a town "Striving to serve God".

I mean they could easily say "Hudsonville: It's all about the Benjamins, baby!"

[Veloise]

Clearly the city of Hudsonville needs professional marketing assistance to come up with a catchy pithy slogan that accurately represents their fair city.

Examples abound.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/Downtown...222#entry411222

ETA: that April 2006 fun commences on the first page, but we really pick up speed with post #91 .... #142 ... #169

First use of the acronym KIAS (aka Keep It A Secret) appears in my post #206