&%$#% Harleys!

[capitalapts]

Maybe Justin6882 hears me on this, so to speak, but wow, what a ridiculous, sanctioned disturbance of the peace going on right now in downtown. I am getting NO peace and quiet after a tough week! Do they really have to have this Harleyfest thingy in downtown where they're here to annoy and intimidate museum goers? Why not out in the middle of some field in Johnston County where we don't have to pay as taxpayers for the ridiculous police presence?

Let me clarify that the only compunction I have with this event is the NOISE. I don't think these people are a bad sort, necessarily. But that noise...the noise that infests one's every orifice uninvited. That's something I'll never understand about Harleys. Cars are made to have mufflers for the purpose of not emitting 150+ decibel racket. Why Harleys are exempt from that (and let's face it, it is just Harley Davidsons) I'll never know.

Just ranting here.

[capitalapts]

I feel like stretching a piano wire about neck height across Edenton St. right now...

[Justin6882]

haha oh, i think you are closer to a clear line of sight to fayetteville st than I am...the traffic has been ridiculous however, its definitely a pain in teh butt to go anywhere.

[RaleighRob]

I've ALWAYS said it should be against the law to f&#k around with mufflers to make vehicles, motorcycles OR cars, sound so freakin' loud!

Back when I lived in an apartment on Hillsborough Street, it was like clockwork every Friday night at like 1am a horde of Harleys would go by.

So I sympathize.

[Jerseyman4]

Anytime when theres any social gathering of any type... someone.. and i mean.. there is always someone who complains. If everyone complained and got their way, the world would be quite boring and dull if you ask me.

[dmccall]

City Manager Russell Allen is a Harley guy. Need any more explanation?

[capitalapts]

City Manager Russell Allen is a Harley guy. Need any more explanation?

Ah hah! Interesting tidbit...

jerseyman-I hear what you're saying, and agree (hence the cryin' smiley at the end of my admited rant-I knew/know I was being whiney, but the level of noise was ridiculous-surely you understand). it was very annoying yesterday, but they're gone now.

[Jerseyman4]

jerseyman-I hear what you're saying, and agree (hence the cryin' smiley at the end of my admited rant-I knew/know I was being whiney, but the level of noise was ridiculous-surely you understand). it was very annoying yesterday, but they're gone now.

Sure i understand, i was in a small village of 2500 people in Sicily where it was LOUD as anything. My house was situated right along the Main Street where all day i heard cars with sound systems, mopeds, motorcycles, kids screaming and yelling and trash allover the place all day. I think you can live for day or a week of motorcycles... i dealt with Sicilian small-town life for 2.5 months! I didnt complain but rather got accustomed to the culture and made plans to leave the village to be at the beach all day getting a tan or take mini-road trips around the Province ($6 a gallon gas didnt stop me). I found the excessive loud noise to be annoying but i went about my business, finding ways to enjoy my summer.

Now if one person is causing a rocus, thats one thing, id complain too! But when a group of people are enjoying life.. let them be

[RaleighRob]

I don't think anyone has a true problem with groups gathering like that....that's not really the issue as far as I'm concerned.

For me, the issue is purposely modifying a car or motorcycle to make it have a louder-than-necessary engine noise. This is 2006--we have the technology to make engines decently quiet.

It's bad enough when 1, 2 or even 3 loud Harleys go by your home. I can't imagine what that rally sounded like. Perhaps the city should require an "Amplified Noise Permit" for such an event. You can't argue that those Harleys aren't amplified!

[Justin6882]

I definitely am not complaining about the event - it brought a TON of people downtown - anything that does that I'm for.

[capitalapts]

I don't understand your analogy. That's great you decided to live in the middle of a small Sicilian town for 2.5 months probably already knowing you'd be in the thick of things. I've lived in my apartment for 4.5 years. There was no Harley fest until just last year. It is ridiculously disruptive if you live within two-three blocks of Fayetteville St. (or Moore Square as the case was last year). I reject the notion of "getting accustomed to" an event that marked its first anniversary this year, which couldn't be any different than the sundry hussle and bustle of a European town, which unlike this country, are able to maintain downtown as the focus of activity.

Like RaleighRob, I have no problem whatsoever with any group gathering/festival downtown. Really, I have had no qualms with ANY of them but this one (even when people take my parking space that is clearly numbered), because I have issues with an event that requires me to raise my voice above the normal volume of conversation and renders phone conversations nearly impossible all day long until nearly midnight, in my home.

I respect downtown is a focal point of activity. However, the city would be well served by respecting its downtown residents by having this kind of event (i.e., one that is a disruption beyond reasonable measure) out at the fairgrounds or somewhere else where less people are living. Particularly given the number of condos planned for construction on or within the immediate vicinity of Fayetteville St.

How about they have this bike fest but have to bring in their hawgs on trailers? I don't care if they look at and fawn over them all day long as long as I don't have to hear them. You can hear one of those things 4 blocks away. You can't hear anything else four blocks away unless it's an ambulance. No one will convince me otherwise that those things are a sanctioned disturbance of the peace. They are preposterously loud, and they are not fit for high-density residential areas.

Sure i understand, i was in a small village of 2500 people in Sicily where it was LOUD as anything. My house was situated right along the Main Street where all day i heard cars with sound systems, mopeds, motorcycles, kids screaming and yelling and trash allover the place all day. I think you can live for day or a week of motorcycles... i dealt with Sicilian small-town life for 2.5 months! I didnt complain but rather got accustomed to the culture and made plans to leave the village to be at the beach all day getting a tan or take mini-road trips around the Province ($6 a gallon gas didnt stop me). I found the excessive loud noise to be annoying but i went about my business, finding ways to enjoy my summer.

Now if one person is causing a rocus, thats one thing, id complain too! But when a group of people are enjoying life.. let them be

[RaleighRob]

Raleigh would never consider holding a tractor pull or monster truck rally downtown...and let's be honest, Harleys are just as loud.

If this was a Honda or BMW or Suzuki motorcycle rally, I doubt anyone would be complaining...or even notice. My dad rides a Honda...you don't even know he's in the neighborhood till he pulls up the driveway.

To me, it's cooler to ride a motorcycle that arrives with some stealth than loudly announces to the world that they've arrived! lol

[ncwebguy]

Where do we draw the line for what is "disruptive"? Artsplosure? Alive After Five? Raleigh Downtown Live? Raleigh Wide Open? Barbecue Festival (which didn't happen this year)? Should fireworks be eliminated as well? Last year the rain kept the crowds down, but the weather brought a lot more people out this year. The Fayetville Street Corridor does a better job of echoing the noise vs. Hargett and Martin near Moore Square last year as well. I didn't hear anything a few blocks east of Moore Square.

Starting on Friday afternoon was probably a bad idea... Almost all the parking decks were closed to visitors, plus the one lane, two way streets that used to cross Fayetville bottleneck into Salisbury, which itself was forced into one lane west on Davie due to Convention Center construction.

The rally is a venture between Ray Price Harley-Davidson (where even more motorcycles were parked and the riders shuttled into downtown) and the civic/convention center, to get more people into downtown on the weekends. The new ice cream/coffee shop across from Wachovia finally opened, American Pita, which never opens on weekends, was open Saturday. Also, Port City Java is now open till 10 on Fridays and Saturdays, and even open till 3 on Sundays! They charged me $2 for a cup of milk, but I guess I'll get something else next time...

The fairgrounds area is not an option because even the flea market is out for the month of October due to the State Fair. Don't give anyone ideas about monster truck rallies downtown! I could see them stop work on the Site 1/Marriott parking deck and turning that pit into one big car crushing disaster area for a weekend...

[capitalapts]

Where do we draw the line for what is "disruptive"? Artsplosure? Alive After Five? Raleigh Downtown Live? Raleigh Wide Open? Barbecue Festival (which didn't happen this year)? Should fireworks be eliminated as well? Last year the rain kept the crowds down, but the weather brought a lot more people out this year. The Fayetville Street Corridor does a better job of echoing the noise vs. Hargett and Martin near Moore Square last year as well. I didn't hear anything a few blocks east of Moore Square.

Okay...none of the events you have listed impose a disruption because none of them entail the deliberate over-amplification of noise that is far beyond the bounds of reason. We're not talking about an outdoor concert here and the level of noise associated with that. By the sound of it, some of the specimens out at the rally had been tweaked to be as loud as possible. Think about that. To an outsider, the apparent intent of those things (Harleys) is to be loud, big, bad, and bold. The big, bad, and bold make no difference to me whatsoever-it's the loud that does, though, because it is a continuous, unreasonable, unwelcome disruption, and it interferes with the quality of my life as a downtown resident, and I think it's ridiculous that the city allows that event to proceed in downtown, which it is trying to showcase to would-be residents.

To reiterate, the NOISE is what is disruptive. It is not the theme of the event, the date/time of the event, the number of people participating in the event, the street closings, the reduced parking availability, all of which I counted on being a factor in downtown when I chose to live downtown and none of which I have a problem with at all as seemed to have been insinuated by jerseyman. I'm talking about the unreasonable noise (by any measure), and the noise only.

[Eastwestrob]

You would be surprised who you will find on Harleys these days..Dr's, Lawyers, Grandmothers,....Me. Harleys are different from any other (Rice Rocket) Bikes on the road. As far as the noise goes, Chances are you only hear it for 30 seconds and its gone. Its no louder than a big-rig down shifting and that is more frequent than hearing Harleys. Or how about the 16 year old kid pumping out 4000 watts of power at 3:ooam. Its life and it happens and at some point in everybodys life you will do something to irritate someone else.

Peace

[ncwebguy]

Okay...none of the events you have listed impose a disruption because none of them entail the deliberate over-amplification of noise that is far beyond the bounds of reason. We're not talking about an outdoor concert here and the level of noise associated with that. I think it's ridiculous that the city allows that event to proceed in downtown, which it is trying to showcase to would-be residents.

To reiterate, the NOISE is what is disruptive. ... I'm talking about the unreasonable noise (by any measure), and the noise only.

To *you* outdoor concerts are not over-amplification of noise. But to others, it is. Anything louder than an accoustic guitar or other un-amplified instrument *is* deliberate over-amplification and everyone has their own definition of "reason". This is a slippery slope I do not want to be anywhere near. When Mr. and Mrs. Empty Nesters move in to their $750k Site 1 condo, there is no difference between "outdoor concert" and "amplifiying noise." If they find them both "unreasonable", do we throw out the baby with the bathwater? They can easily make your "I think it's ridiculous that the city allows that event to proceed in downtown, which it is trying to showcase to would-be residents" claim about *any* concert.

Do they have the right to tell the city "no you can't do that" even though they moved in after the fact? Can anyone move out to near RDU airport and tell them to keep the noise down?

[Jones_]

Harleys are vehicles and I know they tried to trademark the noise they make since that is their only selling point...you can modify other bikes to LOOK like whatever you want. I can't even begin to talk on my cell phone when a Harley goes by. Deliberate noise modification, as opposed to Diesel engines just being loud during use, should be regulated just like stereos blaring from cars are. So with equal treatment, ( and reduction in noise) I think the festival would be fine...although Harley sales would be way down.

[AndrewJS]

Big events and nightclubs have negative externalities (noise, parking, crime, etc) which are theoretically offset by licensing fees. Similarly, motorcycles and cars that have excessively loud mufflers or stereos should pay to offset their impact on unwilling victims.

I suspect the state doesn't take into account muffler noise in licensing, so it's left up to subjective and hard to enforce nuisance laws. Does anybody know how this works in NC?

Also, Bubb Rubb

[capitalapts]

To *you* outdoor concerts are not over-amplification of noise. But to others, it is. Anything louder than an accoustic guitar or other un-amplified instrument *is* deliberate over-amplification and everyone has their own definition of "reason".

There is a huge difference between amplifying musical instruments to get them loud enough to be heard in an outdoor concert setting and outfitting a vehicle for the express purpose of being as loud as it can possibly be just for the sake of it, and allowing a batallion of these things to emit noise pollution boku in a densely populated area for 2 days where they previously had not been. Musical instruments are not "over-amplified" if they're amplified for the sake of enabling people to hear them. And heaven knows this city is not going to allow something as loud as The Who in the 70's to play downtown into the night-none of the bands that have played any of the events at Moore Square or elsewhere have been anywhere near as loud as shows at the RBC Center, etc.

The noise Harley Davidsons make so ridiculously exceeds that made by any outdoor concert that has ever been held downtown that there is no plausible basis of comparison between the two. Listen to a Harley go by your front window and then listen to a Honda go by and tell me Harleys aren't over-amplified.

This is a slippery slope I do not want to be anywhere near. When Mr. and Mrs. Empty Nesters move in to their $750k Site 1 condo, there is no difference between "outdoor concert" and "amplifiying noise." If they find them both "unreasonable", do we throw out the baby with the bathwater? They can easily make your "I think it's ridiculous that the city allows that event to proceed in downtown, which it is trying to showcase to would-be residents" claim about *any* concert.

Do they have the right to tell the city "no you can't do that" even though they moved in after the fact? Can anyone move out to near RDU airport and tell them to keep the noise down?

As far as this outdoor concerts=Harley fest strawman, I appreciate you trying to make me out as a whiney, 1st ammendment-hating geezer but I'm guessing you live a real good few blocks east of Moore Square to not have experienced the cacaphony of the Harley thing. Certainly a good distance away if you're going to try to put the level of disruption/noise of an outdoor confcert on par with that of several hundred Harley Davidsons with a straight face. There is a huge difference, and my criticism of the Harley thing is definitely not the same thing as a couple of retirees getting their panties in a bunch about a guitar solo from some guy at Moore Square. If you can't appreciate the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

EastWestRob-I couldn't care less if the Dalai Lama was on a Harley-I have said nothing about their ridership and I really don't care who rides them. It's not the 30 seconds of noise I hear whenever they ride by that bothers me (read my posts) even though that's still a ridiculous amount of noise, it's the city-sanctioned two day event of ridiculous, all day long into the night noise that does.

[Eastwestrob]

There is a huge difference between amplifying musical instruments to get them loud enough to be heard in an outdoor concert setting and outfitting a vehicle for the express purpose of being as loud as it can possibly be just for the sake of it, and allowing a batallion of these things to emit noise pollution boku in a densely populated area for 2 days where they previously had not been. Musical instruments are not "over-amplified" if they're amplified for the sake of enabling people to hear them. And heaven knows this city is not going to allow something as loud as The Who in the 70's to play downtown into the night-none of the bands that have played any of the events at Moore Square or elsewhere have been anywhere near as loud as shows at the RBC Center, etc.

The noise Harley Davidsons make so ridiculously exceeds that made by any outdoor concert that has ever been held downtown that there is no plausible basis of comparison between the two. Listen to a Harley go by your front window and then listen to a Honda go by and tell me Harleys aren't over-amplified.

As far as this outdoor concerts=Harley fest strawman, I appreciate you trying to make me out as a whiney, 1st ammendment-hating geezer but I'm guessing you live a real good few blocks east of Moore Square to not have experienced the cacaphony of the Harley thing. Certainly a good distance away if you're going to try to put the level of disruption/noise of an outdoor confcert on par with that of several hundred Harley Davidsons with a straight face. There is a huge difference, and my criticism of the Harley thing is definitely not the same thing as a couple of retirees getting their panties in a bunch about a guitar solo from some guy at Moore Square. If you can't appreciate the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

EastWestRob-I couldn't care less if the Dalai Lama was on a Harley-I have said nothing about their ridership and I really don't care who rides them. It's not the 30 seconds of noise I hear whenever they ride by that bothers me (read my posts) even though that's still a ridiculous amount of noise, it's the city-sanctioned two day event of ridiculous, all day long into the night noise that does.