Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

[ncwebguy]

When I lived near Cameron Village, I rarely drove to Hillsborough to shop, eat, etc. The businesses on Hillsborough Street cater to students, whereas Cameron Village caters to motorists. Cameron Village was the first center of its type in the southeast -- plenty of free parking, no physical connection to the surrounding neighborhood.

Hillsborough Street has a high traffic count despite the lack of traffic generating fast food outlets until you get to snoopys/arbys (zaxby's doesn't count) or big box retailers. The traffic is generated by NC State -- the academic version of a big box retailer -- low cost, high volume, pass the savings on to the consumer. Also, the traffic count is high because Hillsborough Street carries a significant amount of traffic 18 hours a day, not only during rush hour.

The issue no one on city council wants to admit to is how to justify the inflated rents demanded by Hillsbrough Street property owners. Five Points, the warehouse district, and Glenwood South became attractive districts because they was once a low rent area with a collection of empty storefronts. Several businesses took a chance, opened, and success brough more business. Hillsborough Street has always had full storefronts because of the nearby student population. This created a "student ghetto" that is not attractive to average Raleigh residents. Some businesses, like Schoolkids, Foundations Edge, Brugers and the pizza places thrive in climate.

It isn't attractive to the rest of the city (or businesses willing to pay the high rent and taxes), so it needs fixing or ignoring. The "fix" crowd pushed for roundabouts with the belife that something unique would be attractive. The "ignore" crowd has changed their criteria for approval -- first it was safety, then it was asthetics, and now it is maintaining the "thoroughfare" that should not exist.

Glenwood South and Boylan Heights recognized that if they want business, they needed to increase their density. Approving projects like 510 and the Paramount has paid dividens and fuels ongoing infill development. Bloomsbury, Reynolds, and the Nash will do the same for the west side of downtown. What projects does Hillsborough Street have? Nothing. University Towers helped anchor the surrounding area, but Cameron Village, Mission Valley, and Western Blvd. siphon off a lot of the disposable income in the area.

The Valentine project west of UT could be a boon for the area, but they are happy to rent parking spaces by the month instead. Once again giving the automobilie preferential treatment over people.

[Jones_]

The issue no one on city council wants to admit to is how to justify the inflated rents demanded by Hillsbrough Street property owners. Five Points, the warehouse district, and Glenwood South became attractive districts because they was once a low rent area with a collection of empty storefronts. Several businesses took a chance, opened, and success brough more business. Hillsborough Street has always had full storefronts because of the nearby student population. This created a "student ghetto" that is not attractive to average Raleigh residents. Some businesses, like Schoolkids, Foundations Edge, Brugers and the pizza places thrive in climate.

I always wondered why landlords simply did not lower rents to help out tenants. These buildings rarely change hands (exception being the Darryls building that I know of) so they should have been paid for long ago. If property taxes are an issue the city is to blame for their valuation. If this were addressed by property owners, acknowledging that they do not own properties that are as highly coveted as they believe, things should stabilize. More than anything Hillsborough St just needs some cleaning, and not so much 'fixing' beyond rent vs. profitability of the area. It is a students street and always has been. The residents who bought nearby (and to some degree business owners)are starting to sound like people who move in under the approach at the airport then complain about the noise.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Jones133

[RaleighRob]

While students will always be an integral part of Hillsborough Street, I disagree that that is all it is. Two of the most successful businesses there have few student customers: Fraziers and Porters.

I think they prove with the right mix of good businesses and some improvements to the strip, Hillsborough Street has the potential to be a mini-Glenwood South. But few want to give it that chance.

[citiboi27610]

...Hillsborough Street has the potential to be a mini-Glenwood South. But few want to give it that chance.

Hillsborough Street has the potential to be something all its own and deserves not to be compared to Glenwood South. We as humans tend to speak things into existence by psychologically developing a image of how things should be. Glenwood Ave and Franklin St are both examples for where Hillsborough can go, but its obvious that these areas are different. I'm excited about what the strip can be in the future.

I wish we were all in a better position to make our very specific opinions known. What role does the Urban Design Center play in actual development in and around Downtown? Is there like a citizens consortium of some kind that facilitates spread of ideas from the citizen level to the city level? If anyone can answer any or all of these question in whole or part, that'd be great. Thanks.

[ChiefJoJo]

Mitch Silver, the ciy's planning director, is looking at a new plan for Hillsborough St.

[ChiefJoJo]

Geary's article on H-St. Interesting to note that NCDOT will only approve reducing the street's lanes with the roundabout concept. He makes another interesting point that the overall plan shaped 7 years ago was always about the revitalizing the communtiy and not just roundabouts, but that most thought the street needed to come first, hence the rounadabout plan. He mentions a big problem with NCSU's reluctance to offer their thougths on redevelopment proposals on their sites, notably North Hall and at Brooks Ave.

[ncwebguy]

The Hillsborough Street area has been in a coma for the last seven years because of the "chicken and egg" problem. The chickens (new investment) need to come from an egg (a new Hillsborough Street). But the egg everyone wants -- a two lane street to provide more parking -- can only come from the roundabouts.

From the Geary article:

The Hillsborough Street project," says George Chapman, who retired as planning director in 2005 and is now the unpaid president of the HSP, "was not and is not about roundabouts. It's about the revitalization ... and the quality of the environment all along the street.

Yet right before this quote is the following:

But before such investments [offices, housing, parking decks] would be made, they concluded, the crummy look of Hillsborough Street itself needed an extreme makeover, beginning with the hurry-up-and-stop car traffic.

So the Hillsborough Street project is about revitalization and not roundabouts, then why has roundabouts been the only option considered for seven years? The DOT's four to two lane conversion requires them. With that requirement, the project became about roundabouts and not redevlopment.

Redeveloping the three NCSU parcels (and Stanhope Village) would go a long way to revitalize the area, and would *not* require roundabouts.

1) I'll be the first to say the parking lot at NW Brooks and Hillsborough is an embarassment. The problem is the university would like something in the 3-5 story range, maybe higher, with no street level retail. Which the neighborhood CAC would fight. So the result is the stalemate that has lasted at least 15 years, probably more. The university has owned the land since 1945. The city and county collect *no* taxes on property worth almost $600k.

If they could aquire the Schoolkids/Kinkos/Papa Johns building and its parking lot, move those businesses into the ground floor, and build offices/classrooms/upperclass-graduate housing, they could hide parking and make the street look and feel better. They paid $8,747.93 in county taxes last year... I don't know what rental rate that could justify. Again, this project (or a scaled back one using only the University's parking lot and house adjacent to it) can be done with *no* roundabouts.

Nearby, Wachovia owns its land, but does not let anyone else use its parking lot. If it played nice with the neighbors, it would add another 30-50 spaces without doing anything. The Electirc Company Mall is owned by a partnership based in Chapel Hill. They paid $21,500 in taxes for the building purchased in 2001. They have done a good job of attracting some tenants, but Starcade, the Five O, Studio, and Hideaway are long gone and not replaced. Other properties in the area do not appear to have high enough taxes due to justify the high rents.

2) North Hall's parking lot should be a parking deck. This will not be cheap, but is the easiest way to create more parking spaces that businesses say they need. But will the community allow a parking deck there? NC State seems to think not, or a deck would be there already. This deck could easily be hidden by street level shops and offices/residences above them. North Hall itself is set back too far from the street, but the university could build frm it to the street with classrooms, offices, etc. Again, roundabouts would not be needed to do this.

3) Despite what the article says, the parking lot behind the former Darryl's is *not* next to Norht Hall. There are three streets (Enterprise, Maiden, and Ferndell) and several businesses (Sadlacks, Bell Tower Mart, Budda's Belly, etc.) between them. There is a small amount of space between Ferndell and the jewelery store. But plans to realign Oberlin and/or put in a roundabout keeps the University from doing anything with that space until plans are finalized. If Oberlin is not redirected, then a parking deck could go there. But it is not near other H Street businesses, so it would not be as useful as decks on the Brooks or North Hall surface lots.

The area used to be Hillsborough Square, a collection of bars and shops including Players' Retreat. The Chancellor's house was across the street (between Pullen Park and Pullen Memorial Baptist Church), and the noise from the bars was too loud, so NC State bought the property, bulldozed it, and put in the existing parking lot. Now that the Chancellor's residence is moving to Centennial campus, the university might do something with both parcels.

4) The neighborhood was against Stanhope village because of the student traffic it would generate and the affect additional housing units would have on existing property in the area. Valentine could break ground tommorow, but won't until the city spends money on fixing up Hillsborough Street. Stanhope Village doesn't need roundabouts -- only something to make Hillsborough Street more attractive. It received city approval in October 2002.

The homeowners association and Hillsborough Street partnership want the same thing because Councilman Russ Stephenson was a part of both entities.

Geary's article makes no mention of the panhandling that continues to scare potential customers away from the area. That style of "cleaning up" the street is never addressed by Hillsborough Street Project meetings. But the panhandlers are the top reason why the rest of the city doesn't want to go to the area behind parking and traffic.

Why does Hillsborough Street need to be revitalized if it can attract and keep non-student businesses like Mitch's, Frazier's, Porters, etc.? A lot of those are kept in buisness by professors and grad students, but they wouldn't survive on that business alone. Brothers and several other businesses have closed because they said they couldn't afford the rent for the amount of business they do.

This went a lot longer than it should have, but economic development does not need roundabouts. Sadlacks rennovated with out any roundabouts, buried utilities, or other improvements. If there was an Elmo's in the old Darry's space and NC State redeveloped its properties, the city could justify burying the utilities like they did in Glenwood South and everyone would be happy. The current "you go first, no you go first" record has been skipping for the last seven years. Someone needs to pick the needle up and do something.

[RaleighRob]

Nearby, Wachovia owns its land, but does not let anyone else use its parking lot. If it played nice with the neighbors, it would add another 30-50 spaces without doing anything.

This boggles my mind. I don't see why they have to be so against people parking there in off hours, really. The one in Five Points has people parking there every night, and I can't think of anything bad that's come out of it.

Despite what the article says, the parking lot behind the former Darryl's is *not* next to Norht Hall.

Right...and the interesting thing is, this is a great place for parking. NCSU actually has a small sign there, I recall, that says university use on weekdays, but open to the public on nights and weekends. But most people aren't aware of that...or if they are, they're too lazy to walk the 3 blocks from it to other things.

If there was an Elmo's in the old Darry's space ...

Hah...everytime I turn around I'm hearing people saying that now. It seems to be the popular opinion of what would do well in that space. I wonder if the owners of Elmo's are aware of this?

[Jones_]

While students will always be an integral part of Hillsborough Street, I disagree that that is all it is. Two of the most successful businesses there have few student customers: Fraziers and Porters.

I think they prove with the right mix of good businesses and some improvements to the strip, Hillsborough Street has the potential to be a mini-Glenwood South. But few want to give it that chance.

Well, true, and those places have always been in my top five best places to eat in this city.....I would try to modify what I said befroe but I am too tired from dodging wrecked cars on 40 driving in from Greensboro this morning

[ChiefJoJo]

Hillsborough Street's issues do not end with just panhandling & revitalization. Hillsborough St is one of the most dangerous roads of it's type in the state of NC. Roundabouts would address the traffic and bike/ped safety issue quite well. I don't think anyone ever said the roundabouts would revitalize the street by themselves, but it would likely help in several key areas, including traffic flow, ped safety, and some increased parking, all areas the city can actually do something about, the public realm.

I understand there are skeptics, but Kekas' comments "roundabouts solve traffic problems, not revitilization problems," are off-base. She points to Fayetteville St and Glenwood as examples of what can be done without roundabouts. She is part correct, but as I have discussed in this topic before, those are different streets with different issues that do not necessarily apply to Hillsborough. Glenwood had already begun to flourish before the streetscape project in 2004 (510, Hibernian, Creamery, etc), and Fayetteville St has city property nearby (sites 1-6) that it is redeveloping along with the RCC, and most of all those two streets have significantly less auto and bus traffic than Hillsborough St does.

Obviously, for revitalization to fully move forward, one would need private business and land-owner cooperation. Check for the former (most are on board with the roundabout plan), and the latter is chiefly represented by NCSU and Valentine. What other plan is going to magically achieve those properties to be developed? Land owners have been waiting for something to be done so they can move forward with their projects, and this is the plan that has been in the works for 7 years, waiting for funding, and all of a sudden it has some, and now we pull the plug??? What kind of credibility does the city of Raleigh have now when this kind of effort is expended over many years and now we have nothing to show for it?

I don't know what Silver is going to come up with, but when he talks about the community "vision," perhaps he should read the 2001 feasibility study which discusses the vision/goals for H-St in detail. It seems we are reinventing the wheel here.

[Jones_]

It is interesting that Jojo and Webguy do not agree on this issue as you guys normally see eye to eye on things. I will split the middle as any good middle child must do.

Panhandler problem:Yes

Dirty: Yes

Unsafe: yes

Major Thoroughfare:No mostly an employment destination street.

Business often fail: yes

Businesses stay for years too: yes

Heavy Student influence

Heavy neighborhood association involvement

Like webguy said, the landowner stasis needs to end. Like jojo says, the street needs to be made safer. This can be done with or without round-a-bouts-. Economic development, safety and perceived safety, cleanliness, ease of access by foot or car, it all goes hand in hand. Hmm...the biggest problem seems to be a clear goal for what the place should look like. I tend to think that despite the success of Porters/Fraziers, the student presence will always lend a student ghetto feel to the area which chaffes the neighborhood association. NCSU has neither completely abandoned Hillsborough, which would help in terms of freeing up land for private development in the parking lots, nor have they ever fully embraced Hillsborough. I think we should see NCSU police on the beat on Hillsborough. Let fraternities have letters in the brick sidewalk and make them maintian a planter with a tree and trash can near their letters. Put in some brick crosswalks ala Spring Garden St at UNCG....nobody seems to want to own the street (city or university). the neighbors do though but there plans are always very in conflict with economic reality there.....

[RaleighRob]

I understand there are skeptics, but Kekas' comments "roundabouts solve traffic problems, not revitilization problems," are off-base. She points to Fayetteville St and Glenwood as examples of what can be done without roundabouts. She is part correct, but as I have discussed in this topic before, those are different streets with different issues that do not necessarily apply to Hillsborough.

Exactly...I wonder why the roundabout proponents didn't answer her with "You want an example of a roundabout working well here, just look at Pullen Road."

Everytime I've been through that one, things are going pretty darn well.

[DanRNC]

Students getting involved

[ncwebguy]

If Hillsborough Street had few pedestrians and fewer pedestrian crossings, then yes, the roundabouts would work as demonstrated and I would be for them. One lane in each direction that never has to come to a complete stop would handle a larger volume of traffic, and handle it more efficiently than two lanes in each direction with traffic lights. The Pullen/Stinson roundabout proves this, as long as you go at the right time. F Street is not a comparable, because it is only a few blocks long. Glenwood is kind of a through street, but Dawson and McDowell a few blocks to the east handle the majority of through north/south traffic. Hillsborough Street has east/west traffic that isn't going anywhere. I am not arguing any of that.

But with a price tag greater than the F Street reopening (in 2001 dollars with pre-Katrina construction costs), roundabouts on Hillsborough Street are a tough sell. Especially when the south side of the street will *never* generate a dime in tax revenue from Dan Allen to Pullen. The plan may be seven years old, but has been in its own statis for four or five years. If the city of Raleigh gave every neighborhood what it wanted, Raleigh would have gone bankrupt a long time ago. The city has budgeted $3 million for this project from the road bond. The neighbohood sees this as a "down payment" whereas the council wants to see this cover most of the costs of the project. How this money is spent will determine if sustainable redevelopment dollars will come to the area. It would be in everyone's best interest to get as much "bang for the buck" from that money to justify more down the road.

Earlier in this thread I said *some* roundabouts woudl help, but not *all* of the roundabouts proposed. Clark/Horne, Clark/Oberlin, and others could be dropped, reducing the cost of the project to a number the council can support. To get that support, there needs to be more support from the community than pointing to a seven year old study. I hope Mitch Silver and the planning department look at the existing plan, keep the necessary parts in place, work with the Hillsborough Street partnership to make sure they are still on board, and move forward with this in the next 4-6 months.

A free flow of traffic (similar to Pullen Road) is a false assumption. The only thing on the east side of Pullen near the roundabout is Pullen Arts Center and the softball field. These generate little to no pedestrian traffic across Pullen, so the success of that roundabout is not an indicator for success with Hillsborough Street roundabouts. If Hillsborough Street improves, fraternities have to maintain some plants over a mile from their chapters' houses, etc., pedestrian traffic will *increase.* Crossing it will take more than the current "minute or two". The study barely considers pedestrian traffic counts, only counting at three intersections. Bicycle traffic counts were found to be too small to be significant, but the study was conducted in November. Bike ridership is significantly higher in warmer months. The study makes *no* predictions for future pedestrian or bicycle traffic in the corridor.

Steady, low speed, through traffic makes the assumption that traffic will never stop. Yet there will still be two signaled pedestrian crossings. This will stop traffic in both directions, creating a chain reaction in the roundabouts. At other crossings, pedestrians crossing Hillsborough will have to wait until there is no traffic coming from their left, assuming there is enough space for them on the median. With only one though lane, the chances of this decrease dramatically, especially around lunch and between classes. This also creates a problem for vehicles entering or exiting on-street parkings spaces. They either have to wait for an opening, or create one by butting out, slowing or stopping the flow of traffic.

In the study, east-west traffic on Hillsborough Street in 2025 will be at *today's* numbers. Their build/no build traffic analysis suggests 4,000 fewer cars will use the east-west connectors of Wade, Hillsborough, and Western. -- 157,000 "no build" vs. 153,000 "build". It accounts for more traffic on north-south streets, but how that traffic magically not going to go east west any more?

As for parking, a lot of the net gain -- parking on the south side of Hillsborough street -- is already in place on nights and weekends. The majority of the gain comes from 9-5 on street parking. If two hours of parking is allowed, this will be full of students. Businesses won't see the gain from that parking. The off street number comes out even with the assumption of a parking deck built in the North Hall lot. Yet there is *no* money budgeted for this part of the project. Without it, 100 spaces are lost, and there is a net loss of parking in the study area. If the deck is built, it concentrates parking in one space. People going anywhere west of Pogue/Wachovia will not consider that as a parking option. The study's parking count ignores the spaces available in the Dan Allen deck on NCSU campus, although that is only available on nights and weekends.

Fewer parking spaces would be needed on the street if there was a higher density of residents nearby on *either* side of the street (or the TTA train was operational, with a stop a few blocks away on campus). But the majority of NC State's dorms are several blocks away, other than North Hall, approx. 150 rooms on East Campus, and University Towers. The neighborhood is low density single family housing, not enough to support the existing amount of retail space on Hillsborough, let alone any additions.

NC State does not want to own the street. They are turning their back on it while moving toward Centennial Campus and the Vet School. They are reluctant to reveal redevlopment plans for their property because they have none. The neighborhood and businesses want to own the street, but only if it is nicer. But "nice" to the neighborhood is a walkable space, wherase "nice" to retailers is more parking spaces. For everyone to get what they want, a lot of money will need to be invested.

[ncwebguy]

City council is discussing the Hillsborough Street roundabouts today. Here is the meeting agenda.

Unfortunately, their meeting starts at 1 today instead of the usual evening meeting, so it is too late to go. Hopefully some news outlet will report on the outcome.

[DanRNC]

Back to the drawing boards

Its amazing how many idiots are on the Raleigh City Council with Isley leading the charge. He made a quote that you need to have a Ph.D. in engineering to figure out how to get through traffic circles and it seems like every project proposed is too "complex" for him to understand or comprehend. Someone should make a coloring or pop-up book for him with all the projects in review so he can "understand".

The Kekas, Isley, and Taliaferro crew make the argument that Fayetteville St. and Glenwood South have been a success without traffic circles but what do those 2 streets have in common? Answer:narrow lanes and wide sidewalks (traffic calming measures) -just the thing they oppose to slow down traffic on H-Street. Their main concern is not creating a pedestrian-friendly, economically thriving area but maintaining a major thoroughfare back to Cary even if a few students get plowed down in the process

Edited January 23, 2007 by DanRNC

[Spatula]

We should be using Franklin Street as a model. It's large; it carries a lot of traffic on five lanes, but the low speed limits and good sidewalk designs allow the pedestrians and drivers to coexist pretty well.

[jumboman]

Franklin St. is a good suggestion, but the problem is that there is a lot more room to work with, and with Hillsborough St. what it is, is what you got. There is less than a 2% chance that the university would want to expand the road onto their side and the other side is all businesses.

Franklin St, Glenwood, Fayettville are all cool streets and seem to work in their location, but the truth is that there really isnt a precedent for a Hillsborough St. situation and the city is too scared to put their necks out on something they are unsure about.

I believe any change (roundabouts, huge median, huge sidewalks... any or all) would be better. It would garner interest and excitement. Even if there was parking problems, people would check it out because it would be safer and look better. You can fix the parking later too (underground decks like under the bowling alley maybe?)

[dmccall]

I think Philip's point is that making the street a more complicated maze to navigate does nothing to revive the business climate along the strip. Isn't that really what the problem is? I personally don't have problems with roundabouts, but I don't necessarily think that people who view them as more complicated than a straight line are necessarily dolts.

To me it seems using traffic roundabouts to revive business climate is like eating peanut butter to increase gas mileage. Besides, would a more constant, steady flow of cars be more difficult to cross as a pedestrian? Traffic signals, as annoying as they are, at least put gaps in the traffic flow.

Students get run over all the time at all universities; mainly because they think they are impervious and that the laws of Physics don't apply to them. If they'd actually use crosswalks, when they are allows to cross, the rate of accidents wouldn't be any different than it is downtown. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to one day find a bunch of State students sitting in the middle of Western Blvd playing Connect Four and demanding that traffic go around them.

This city has a very, VERY dark past about wasting millions of taxpayer dollars to implement failing, radical traffic measures to improve business. In fact, we had the largest public gathering in NC history to celebrate the undoing of one of these brilliant ideas. Meanwhile people like Greg Hatem are getting it done without these grandiose measures on good, old fashioned streets - some of them are even major thoroughfares!

I say we put a few roundabouts in (especially at Oberlin/Pullen/Hillsborough), but focus on what is really keeping Hillsborough street from thriving.

[DanRNC]

I think Philip's point is that making the street a more complicated maze to navigate does nothing to revive the business climate along the strip.

I don't think that was the context of his point. Anyway, the guy really needs to focus more on his current job of chasing ambulances than trying to tackle complex issues that are obviously over his head (by his own accounts).

[ChiefJoJo]

I agree that revitalization is the focus, but let's not forget the safety of the street--and no, saying that they are immature college kids doesn't fly. We have to deal with the realities of the situation that exists and attempt to make is safer.

Let me ask the question for those who do not favor roundabouts--what is your alternate plan? Some roundabouts, some streetscaping, bury utilities, etc... To me the funding issue is the same--the city will have to pony up additional funds for all of the street, not just one segment, and it's going to be pricey to revitialize 3-4 miles of dilapidated street any way you slice it. Given the funding concerns, how do we address the revitalization issue?

I think that NCSU and Valentine and other major property onwers need to be brought into the conversation somehow in order to show they are ready to invest in the area or sell to developer who are. Maybe then the council will be more likely to spend some money.

I guess as a planner/engineer, I am miffed that so much time/effort has been expended on a planning process that arrived at a consensus plan that most consituents (residents, business owners, city staff/consultants and DOT) believe will work, and now it all comes crashing down because of a couple of councilors who think it's not the 'right plan' or it should be more like Glenwood or F-St when they have no idea what they're talking about. The perception is that this plan is somehow brand new as if no one has seen it before last fall and the integrity of the planning process (which so many decried was the problem on Plensa) is thrown right out of the window.

After this fiasco, why would anyone in Raleigh ever attend a planning meeting? Streetscape plan? Redevelopment plan? Comp Plan? Oh, they're just pieces of paper we can throw in the trash if we feel like it.

[ChiefJoJo]

BTW, here is the N&O article.

[ncwebguy]

To me, the "some roundabouts, some streetscaping, bury utilities" plan would cost the same (or less) than the "all roundabout, don't bury utilities" proposal. The end result of the "some" plan will produce a more welcoming place than "roundabouts and nothing else".

State students are 90+% of the people who venture by foot into the Hillsborough street corridor with money to spend. Some of them have time management issues that leaves them scurring to get to class. That, combined with the fact that speed limits are ignored because they are not enforced, causes accidents. There is no other road in the Triangle that has as much vehicle and pedestrian traffic in such a narrow corridor with mimimal off-street parking.

The process that created the current situation feels something like the following. The names were not changed to protect the innocent:

Hillsborough Street Partners: How can we convert Hillsborough Street to get more parking spaces in front of the shops and fewer accidents that scare away potential customes?

NC Department Of Transportation: Hey, that's a state road. You can't turn a four lane into a two lane road. If anything, we'd like to expand.

NC State University: Don't think about pushing the street our way. We'll pull our buses off the street, and we do have a lot of surface lots nearby, but we're not going to do anything with them unless we get something for our troubles.

HSP: what if we came up with a way to handle the same amount of traffic with the reduced number of lanes?

NCDOT: umm, ok. We want people to go from downtown to west Raleigh and beyond via Hillsborough Street instead of other paths.

HSP: hmm.. over in England, several busy roads have roundabouts instead of traffic lights! Traffic never stops, so if all stop lights were replaced by roundabouts, Hillsborough Street could handle *more* traffic on two lanes instead of the existing four.

NCDOT runs the numbers and they conclude that roundabouts will allow the same volume of cars. Parallel parked cars and pedestrian traffic is deemed irrelevant.

NCDOT: yep, roundabouts will work.

HSP: let's put roundabouts *everywhere* and then people will want to come because it is a unique traffic pattern! But how do we get the money?

NCDOT: let's build one roundabout to show how effective they are, and then city council will just *have* to give us the money.

NCSU: I know! Let's put one on Pullen! The existing interchange would be better with a roundabout, there are no pesky college kids in the way, and it will be close to Hillsborough Street so we can infer future success.

NCDOT: We need to test roundabouts somewhere, so why not there?

HSP: Hooray! We'll draw up a swell plan that will show how roundabouts will make everything better and let the landlords charge even more for rent. We won't do anything in the meantime to improve the area.

Studio I&II, McDonalds, Starbucks, and other businesses: Panhandlers, trash, and limited parking are keeping customers away. Neighborhood residents like Cameron Village more. Can we get a little help over here?

HSP: there's a university with 20,000+ people every day across the street. If you can't make a go of it, that's your problem. You don't hear Bruggers, Kinkos, and Two Guys complaining, do you? The bike cop patrols all of Hillsborough Street, weather permitting.

StudioMcStarbucks: screw this, we're outta here.

HSP: we didn't need those jerks anyway. When we get our roundabouts, they'll be begging to come back. We'll have so many people here when the roundabouts go in, the bums will go away and traffic will be slower, so everyone will be safe and revitalized.

NCSU: yeah, the less competition for our on-campus food and retail, the better!

Valentine: I ain't doin' nothing till Hillsborough Street gets better and I can charge even more for my development. (In a Mr. Burns from the Simpsons voice) Excelent...

(years pass by with no action. Glenwood and Fayetville Street get rennovated and HSP wants the same. fast forward to 2005)

Meeker: We'll get a few million dollars to get things started via the road bond.

Wake County Taxpayers Association: Craven, Isley, what's going on? Why are they raising our taxes? We don't want our traffic calmed and SUVs taken from us!

Isley: don't worry, I'll make crazy statements about how roundabouts are confusing and unnecessary.

HSP, October 12, 2005: The road bond passed! The people have spoken! They love us, they really love us! Roundabouts, here we come!

HSP, post Fayetville Street opening: Yea! Now it's our turn! District councilman Crowder, at-large councilman/neighbor Stephenson, and the mayor on board. Surely they can work some voodoo to sway a couple more votes our way. I hear we can get Councilman West's vote if we send a few more cops to district C, so we really only need one more vote.

Craven/Isley/Taliaferro: We won't spend money on anything that doesn't benefit North Raleigh and/or developers.

HSP and the Rounders: What about Kekas? The mayor appointed her to fill the empty seat, and we helped get her re-elected. She owes us.

C/I/T: Joyce, Joyce, Joyce.. have you ever driven through a roundabout? Was it fun? No, didn't think so. Now imagine how upset the vast majority of your Raleigh constituents are going to be if they find out you approved funding for a west Raleigh version of Fayetville Street mall. Remember what a disaster *that* was. Don't worry about the college kids -- they don't vote in local elections.

Other council members: Joyce, don't listen to them. We're your friends. The local citizens and businesses have been begging for this for years. This will make the dirty college area as nice as Fayetville Street and Glenwood Avenue! Look at how well the Pullen roundabout works! It's a no brainer!

C/I/T: We heard ambulances and fire trucks won't be able to navigate the roundabouts. The roundabouts will *take away parking*. And why should people drive around in circles to go in a straight line? That's crazy talk! Are you a crazy liberal, Joyce?

Kekas: I'm going to do what I think is right. I vote no.

HSP and the Rounders: D' oh.

Mitch Silver: I'm the new sherrif, umm, planner in town! The planning department can come up with a plan to make everything better.

To be continued...

As far as the "planning process"... Any process with citizen input that produces something the city and/or developers do not approve of gets "filed away" with all the other ignored plans. The east side of downtown has seen plan after plan created and then ignored since the early 80s, and most recently with the East Vision plan.

North Raleigh has seen the lion's share of the city's private development because developers have enjoyed the freedom to do whatever they want. As far as I know, Capital Blvd, Falls of Neuse, Six Forks, Glenwood, Brier Creek, Creedmoor Road, etc. have never gone through a planning process with citizens involved and it shows.

[ChiefJoJo]

^

[orulz]

Excellent work, ncwebguy. Best part is, it actually does a great job of summing everything up. When can we expect to see this on the silver screen?