Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[GRDadof3]

Andy Dragt's new video on Cleveland's "Euclid" BRT line is up.

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[Paramaribo]

Curious:

Why is Creston (and the NE in general) excluded?

There appears to be heavy bus usage up to Creston High, and Plainfield extends naturally from Division.

(referring to Silver Line)

Edited March 31, 2009 by Paramaribo

[aowwt]

Because the largest two burbs are Kentwood and Wyoming. By having them a large peice of the BRT line it allows those cities to check yes on the ballot. I think in the future they may cut off that portion of the BRT line in Medical section and just run it all the way north to Rockford along plainfeild. But if they choose to keep the current line the same and add more later I do think a northern route will be added next with the 28th St route that links the Airport to Metro Health via Rivertown Crossings Mall.

[GRDadof3]

Because the largest two burbs are Kentwood and Wyoming. By having them a large peice of the BRT line it allows those cities to check yes on the ballot. I think in the future they may cut off that portion of the BRT line in Medical section and just run it all the way north to Rockford along plainfeild. But if they choose to keep the current line the same and add more later I do think a northern route will be added next with the 28th St route that links the Airport to Metro Health via Rivertown Crossings Mall.

Well because they are seeking FTA federal funding, it was a lot more scientific than that. There are a lot of parameters you have to meet to get Small Starts funding, including hitting specific ridership numbers, etc..

http://www.fta.dot.gov/planning/newstarts/...onment_222.html

Going past the two major medical districts in downtown will also tend to drive more potential ridership. Plus, they're trying to get commuters off of 131 and into a park-n-ride shuttle mode, and the Southern part of 131 lends itself well to that because it has parallel corridors. At least, I believe that was the thought process.

[aowwt]

Scientific yes, I understand everything you said and what they say. But to be honest if you do not get the two largest burbs to agree with you it will be difficult to get it passed. And getting it passed is part of the method of going through which route you use. Its pretty accurate that if you do not get it passed you do not get the money.

[GRDadof3]

Scientific yes, I understand everything you said and what they say. But to be honest if you do not get the two largest burbs to agree with you it will be difficult to get it passed. And getting it passed is part of the method of going through which route you use. Its pretty accurate that if you do not get it passed you do not get the money.

You are partially correct. The FTA won't provide capital costs if you can't prove that you can provide operating costs. So yes, the BRT won't be built if the millage doesn't pass. The South Division corridor was the best (and only probably) option to meet FTA guidelines, however. The fact that it travels through Kentwood and Wyoming are a side benefit that will help the millage pass, but it's not the main reason. You're making it sound like a political move, when it's mainly because it was the best option all around.

And in my opinion, the whole funding of transit through property tax millages needs to be changed in Michigan.

[John E]

You all got me thinking and I'm seeing a sales pitch for the other cities that the Silver Line will not be directly serving. It will have stations at the cross-town routes (44th, 28th and Burton Streets) making it faster and easier to get to and from the Central Station.

I agree that we need a better way to fun mass transit. I can't see us asking for millage increases every time we want to add another BRT route/line.

~John

[Paramaribo]

Okay, it makes sense to tie in Wyoming and Kentwood, (politically, economically, etc.) but still, why not extend through Creston?

Division, between Michigan and Leonard, is sparsely populated but it's quiet and fast.

Once in Creston, the line hits a large number of bus riding patrons.

In addition, if the line did run through to Creston, an additional stop could be made at the base of Belknapp (sp.?) Hill, at the base of the stairs (they currently resemble Mayan ruins). This would tie the Silver Line into a second densely populated neighborhood. That area is being gentrified - those folks love to vote.

[John E]

Paramaribo,

It would be difficult and time consuming for the route to go past Michigan from 60th Street to get to Central Station. It needs to divert from Division to service the Medical Mile and DeVos Place on the way to Central Station. I completely agree with the current route.

Like you and others, I sure want to see more routes added. I think the most important would be for one from the airport to Central Station.

I do agree that the North is in need of more service. The Plainfield route 11 line doesn't even go up to Meijers. And I'm sure a BRT line between Rockford and Central Station would do a LOT for Kent County.

~John

[GRDadof3]

Paramaribo,

It would be difficult and time consuming for the route to go past Michigan from 60th Street to get to Central Station. It needs to divert from Division to service the Medical Mile and DeVos Place on the way to Central Station. I completely agree with the current route.

Like you and others, I sure want to see more routes added. I think the most important would be for one from the airport to Central Station.

I do agree that the North is in need of more service. The Plainfield route 11 line doesn't even go up to Meijers. And I'm sure a BRT line between Rockford and Central Station would do a LOT for Kent County.

~John

There aren't enough riders from the airport to the Central Station. They couldn't even keep an inexpensive shuttle bus running between the airport and the downtown hotels.

I'm actually hoping this is the only BRT and we switch to light rail for other corridors.

[Gorath]

The reason why the Rapid doesn't reach the Plainfield Meijer is becuase the Plainfield Meijer is in Plainfield Township. And Plainfield Township does not fund the Rapid (by way of property taxes). Unless this changes it is highly unlikely you will see any buses make their way through Plainfield and into Rockford / Cedar Springs.

The only future BRT route other then the Division corridor I can foresee would be one to GVSU's Allendale campus from downtown GR. But that will be up to GVSU to partially fund it if they want it.

[Allison Slater]

I'm actually not sure if the GVSU route really needs an upgrade to BRT. The stops are already spread apart, with exception to its two ends. Streamlining a ticketing system would have very little impact on the route 50, I think. It also probably does not need dedicated lanes, the bus moves efficiently between Grand Rapids and Allendale whenever I've ridden it.

[crinzema]

Check out this useful tool from google that can help you plan trips via public transportation. Grand Rapids area is not included yet.

http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/transit/#mdy

[jbr12]

The Rapid is in the midst of beta testing this service. I'm hoping to see it rolled out in the next couple of months

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/Rapid-s-...tes-t49376.html

[nurfle!]

I'm actually not sure if the GVSU route really needs an upgrade to BRT. The stops are already spread apart, with exception to its two ends. Streamlining a ticketing system would have very little impact on the route 50, I think. It also probably does not need dedicated lanes, the bus moves efficiently between Grand Rapids and Allendale whenever I've ridden it.

I've timed it--taking the 50 is often quicker classroom-to-classroom than driving to Allendale from Seward Ramp and finding a spot out here. Definitely no need for a dedicated lane.

Edited April 1, 2009 by nurfle!

[fotoman311]

Here's another BRT video.

This one shows the "Orange Line" in Los Angeles.

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/las-or...plus-bike-path/

[suydam]

Here's another BRT video.

This one shows the "Orange Line" in Los Angeles.

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/las-or...plus-bike-path/

Would the GR have its own roadway like the LA Orange Line, or just a dedicated lane (across which cars turn, peds cross, etc.)?

[fotoman311]

Would the GR have its own roadway like the LA Orange Line, or just a dedicated lane (across which cars turn, peds cross, etc.)?

It would not be a dedicated right of way.

[suydam]

It would not be a dedicated right of way.

That's too bad. The LA one actually has some of the feel of a rail line. I still feel ours is being billed as something special but will still be viewed as nothing more than a new bus route on our existing system.

[MuskeMI]

A little OT but I thought the people in this thread would like this pretty neato infographic from GOOD magazine about how to make streets more people-friendly.

[John E]

Thank you for the interesting link.

~John

[Rizzo]

Now the local 'tea bagging' contingent are going to have a march down Division Ave. WoodTV article about the Silver Line, 'Silver Line fast, might be expensive.'

Edited April 15, 2009 by Rizzo

[fotoman311]

Now the local 'tea bagging' contingent are going to have a march down Division Ave. WoodTV article about the Silver Line, 'Silver Line fast, might be expensive.'

What a pathetic article. Nowhere does it make it clear that this millage is for operating funds (they just use the generic phrase "to pay for it"), or that the millage is a necessary step to leverage the federal dollars that will actually pay to build the thing. Or that getting these funds is important to getting federal dollars for future transit funds from the federal gov't that will be needed to help us build a competent mass transit system to help us compete with other cities in the future.

ARGHH...it's so frustrating that the local media outlets can't afford to pay people who could actually produce an article that makes sense. It doesn't even have to be long and detailed. It just has to present the actual information about what they are covering.

The proposed Silver Line system would begin on 60th Street and head north to Division Avenue. It would veer past destinations such as St. Mary's Hospital, the Medical Mile, DeVos Place, Van Andel Arena and end at The Rapid central station. The bus line would operate like a rail system, Rapid officials say.

North on 60th St? Really? To Division Avenue? huh?

And it will "veer" past the hospital? So it's going to "turn sharply; change direction abruptly" to get to these places? I hope not, that sounds dangerous.

Edited April 15, 2009 by fotoman311

[GRDadof3]

What a pathetic article. Nowhere does it make it clear that this millage is for operating funds (they just use the generic phrase "to pay for it"), or that the millage is a necessary step to leverage the federal dollars that will actually pay to build the thing. Or that getting these funds is important to getting federal dollars for future transit funds from the federal gov't that will be needed to help us build a competent mass transit system to help us compete with other cities in the future.

ARGHH...it's so frustrating that the local media outlets can't afford to pay people who could actually produce an article that makes sense. It doesn't even have to be long and detailed. It just has to present the actual information about what they are covering.

North on 60th St? Really? To Division Avenue? huh?

And it will "veer" past the hospital? So it's going to "turn sharply; change direction abruptly" to get to these places? I hope not, that sounds dangerous.

I like the tagline "might be expensive." And then there's absolutely nothing in the body of the article to elaborate on that statement.

[Timize]

The Rapid just announced on Twitter (@TheRapid) that they have just applied to be a part of Google Transit. It's now up for Google to approve and include them in Google Transit.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Timize