Lynx Blue Line (South Corridor)

[revitalize]

Does someone have a map of where this line runs?

from CATS website:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...Description.htm

[lupitachica]

Thanks

[Mobuchu]

While driving down Camden today I noticed what I guess is the start of some artwork for the East Blvd. station. Not sure where they are going with this.

And here is the lighting that will be used for the SCIP project. This is Woodlawn, unfortunetly the only thing against these nice wide sidewalks right now are parking lots...

And of course, more train....

[dubone]

Thanks for the photos. This is getting very exciting.

It was on the local news today that CATS has fired Parsons for major design flaws that are leading to much higher costs. This is big news, as Parsons is a major designer of transit projects. Apparently, CATS won't reveal the specifics of the design flaws. I wonder if it is related to the soil problems at the parking deck.

I wonder if this is a play to get the feds to help us with the extra cost overruns.

[monsoon]

.....

I wonder if this is a play to get the feds to help us with the extra cost overruns.

I don't think the feds will cover cost overruns by design. Unfortunately what it sounds like they might do is raid the transit tax more which will hurt the funding prospects of the remaining lines. I put this squarely in the lap of Tober again as this isn't the first time there have been screwups while he has been running this operation. I think they need to find someone else to run CATS. In fact, I believe last time something like this happened, McCroy said this would be the last time. It will be interesting to see if the Mayor has any bite behind his barking on this issue.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Wow, that's AWESOME. Congrats to Charlotte. This is more of what we need to see in the South. Hopefully other cities with no rail transit will see this and use it as an example for what needs to be done in their own city.

[A2]

I don't think the feds will cover cost overruns by design. Unfortunately what it sounds like they might do is raid the transit tax more which will hurt the funding prospects of the remaining lines. I put this squarely in the lap of Tober again as this isn't the first time there have been screwups while he has been running this operation. I think they need to find someone else to run CATS. In fact, I believe last time something like this happened, McCroy said this would be the last time. It will be interesting to see if the Mayor has any bite behind his barking on this issue.

Amen and Amen. You hit the nail on the Head Metro. I do not like Tober and his style at all! I think this guy has no clue on what is going on, but is just interested in his bloated salary and playing tidlywinks all the day long.

Bring in the Talent people !

A2

[dubone]

Any specific reasons you'd care to enlighten us about? It is my understanding that Tober has a pretty good grasp of how things work in Washington. If there are better, then I'm glad to have them lead the transit plan. But I am not quite sure I understand how Tober is a failure when the expert advice, Parsons, made the errors.

[A2]

Any specific reasons you'd care to enlighten us about? It is my understanding that Tober has a pretty good grasp of how things work in Washington. If there are better, then I'm glad to have them lead the transit plan. But I am not quite sure I understand how Tober is a failure when the expert advice, Parsons, made the errors.

I look at Tober as mearley a Politician. His business sense leave a lot to be desired. I think it is possible that he could be being misinformed about cost and projections from the people under him, but at the end of the day Tober is resposible for CATS missteps. I am not blaming him for ignorance (ok yes I am), but more importantly for not commanding respect from Joe Blow Tax payer. The ONLY way to do this is LEAD with an Iron Fist and do what is absolutely necessary to run CATS as efficiently as possible. I think a lack of information, and to a large degree pressure to perform, sometimes allows a person to miss the bigger picture in getting a job done.

It is all about the numbers and we need to make sure we have a leader who understands this. Not too mention the fact that we need people to make decisions that go against the current situation and FIGHT to bring in a better Transit Plan for tomorrow.

Just my Two Cents.

A2

[dubone]

How exactly does management style keep commodity prices from skyrocketing for petroleum products, steel, and concrete? Those are the major reasons for CATS cost increases.

If he mismanaged a lot of other items, then let's hear it. What?

I'm definitely one for ditching ineffectual leaders. I'm just not convinced that we have one here.

[A2]

How exactly does management style keep commodity prices from skyrocketing for petroleum products, steel, and concrete? Those are the major reasons for CATS cost increases.

If he mismanaged a lot of other items, then let's hear it. What?

I'm definitely one for ditching ineffectual leaders. I'm just not convinced that we have one here.

I agree about the cost of construction going up, but any leader has to prepare for cost overruns ahead of the game, not during. It is the sole purpose of management to "manage" expectations and costs and act accordingly. I will concede that Tober is not the worst Manager I have ever seen, BUT I have doubts that the current cost overuns are not going to have an impact on Federal Funding going forward. I have to have someone to blame and to me Tober gets the end of my whipping stick. It is kind of like the Enron debacle. Ken Lay might not have "known" every nook and cranny of all of the shady deals going on, but like all the others in upper management he took the heat just because he was the one "running the show". The same goes for Tober. Now I have NO idea if he hired the Project Designer, or how logistically things went, but what I do know is that he is the leader. If there are overuns in the budget he is the one who is going to catch hell.

Right now they are not even going public with the number of dollars that the system is over budget. That is kind of scary since if the truth were to come out it might scare the hell out of every tax payer in Charlotte and thus make it more difficult to find public support for what they (the genreal public) would deem as a money pit.

Perception is everything...

A2

[monsoon]

Any specific reasons you'd care to enlighten us about? It is my understanding that Tober has a pretty good grasp of how things work in Washington. If there are better, then I'm glad to have them lead the transit plan. But I am not quite sure I understand how Tober is a failure when the expert advice, Parsons, made the errors.

Here you go. The Observer has the current set mistakes bulleted here for you to see. So I don't have to list them. And I would not be surprised there is much more but Tober has chosen to keep it a secret. Tober as head of the CATS approved the process that caused this to happen and failed to have sufficient checkpoints to see if the contractor was doing their job. This is the same kind of debacle that got the FTA to delay approval for almost an entire year. Now they are in the position of having to sue the primary contractor.

Because of these F*ck-ups, the schedule is most likely gong to be delayed again, it will give a lot of fodder to critics of the system, and its going to hurt the prospects for the rest of the system. When Tober was first appointed to this position a forumer from the city where he came from (don't remember which one) warned us that he will screw up CATS like he did the transit system in their city. Seems that was an accurate position.

I say he needs to be held accountable and the Mayor ought to fire him for these very serious problems.

[dubone]

I'm not going to argue much FOR Tober he really did screw up the oversight process. But intuitively, I'd have a hard time blaming a CEO for seven inches on a boiler room ceiling, and soil conditions. Those just don't seem like details that a highest level manager could possibly catch. Luckily Parsons has deep pockets and will have the means to cover it if the law suit wins.

[monsoon]

Well, this is most likely the tip of the iceberg. The city isn't going to involve itself in a lawsuit if that was the sole problem. It sounds as if it is really bad, bad enough that he had to tell the Council in a closed door session and bad enough that it will go over budget and the scheduled delayed. It's the last two that should get Tober fired.

[dubone]

They are claiming that the schedule isn't changing any more, and they will hit the deadline they agreed on with the feds. I think if Parsons is found liable for the overruns other than those tied to rapid commodity inflation, then Tober should be kept, at least through the end of the project.

[revitalize]

Another thing i read in the Observer article today, was that Tober came on to CATS AFTER Parsons had been selected and working on the project already.

[uptownliving]

I think that Tober has shown that he is a good manager by firing consultants that work for him and continue to not do the job right.

[monsoon]

They are claiming that the schedule isn't changing any more, and they will hit the deadline they agreed on with the feds. I think if Parsons is found liable for the overruns other than those tied to rapid commodity inflation, then Tober should be kept, at least through the end of the project.

If I remember correctly the Federal deadline for this project is December 2007. If they are now claiming this is the mark they are shooting for, it is a definate slip over that which they have implied for quite some time. It means they have used up all of their contingency in the schedule, and there still is 16 months left before they are finished. Because of Tober's mistakes, the line is opening almost 2 years late.

Another thing i read in the Observer article today, was that Tober came on to CATS AFTER Parsons had been selected and working on the project already.

That is incorrect as Tober has been here before they even had the approval to build this line.

[dubone]

Who would you recommend as an alternative to Tober? I'd love to get someone who has been very successful at getting projects approved.

[monsoon]

Who would you recommend as an alternative to Tober? I'd love to get someone who has been very successful at getting projects approved.

I don't think we should accept Tober's failures, which are costing the taxpayers here a great deal of money, because the system got approved while he was running it. The fact of the matter is that he has missed dates and run the project over budget due to bungling. It seems to me that a person, who is supposed to be experienced at running a transit project would not have done this. This does not bode well for the future plans because if he can't manage to build a line on time and on budget, it is going to reflect badly on efforts to get future transit approved.

I think they should promote the manager from within CATS. There are a number of talented people there who should get the chance to run the agency.

[uptownliving]

So you think that Tober is incompetant, but the staff that works for and advises him are very talented?

[monsoon]

So you think that Tober is incompetant, but the staff that works for and advises him are very talented?

Well... We don't know what has gone on inside CATS, and I am sure that Tober is not alone in this debacle, but since everything is being kept secret, we don't know. I have met a number of people that work for CATS that I do have a lot of respect for. One wonders if it is a situation of the information is there but because of the organization nothing happens with it. Tober is the at the top the heap and should be held responsibile for this if this is the case. If Tober isn't the problem then it behooves the Mayor to find out who is screwing up these plans and get rid of them.

[dubone]

But aren't all human organizations that have trouble bubbling up issues to the top? I mean, the whole reason they are issues is that all the middle managers between the doers and the CEO didn't notice. If someone had noticed that a ceiling was a foot too low, it would have been corrected long before construction. Instead, it is noticed after the design phase.

Now, I don't know about oversight. He might have really screwed that up. But was that his creation, or MTC's? Was there really an oversight process in place that should have been expected to find these errors, but the oversight failed to? Was there some sort of active cut he did to the oversight processes, or did he just fail to invent them? Did others propose more oversight, but he refused to implement them? Do other transit organizations have a standard for avoiding these problems that wasn't instituted in Charlotte?

Or is this just the standard, mistakes were made, so trace up to the top and fire him.

I'm not saying that it isn't right to fire a manager when there was a failure in execution. I'm just trying to understand how Tober is to blame, so that I can come to agree with you that it would solve something to fire him.

Scapegoating is like revenge. It makes people feel better for a little bit, but in the end accomplishes nothing.

[monsoon]

Now, I don't know about oversight. He might have really screwed that up. But was that his creation, or MTC's? Was there really an oversight process in place that should have been expected to find these errors, but the oversight failed to?

As I understand it, CATS is a department of the city of Charlotte and Tober reports to the Charlotte city manager, not the MTC. The MTC is regional body that is responsible for transportation planning for the area but is not involved in the day to day operations of CATS including the construction of the transit lines. You can look at all of the past meeting minutes of the MTC and you will see where they don't get into this level of management. That is Tober's responsibility. The reason the MTC exists is to give the non-Charlotte municipalities in Mecklenburg the right to specify where their portion of the transit dollars will be spent and to provide a mechanism for non-Mecklenburg municipalities to participate in future expansions of the system. Ultimately, all budgets and hence plans put forth by the MTC are approved by the Charlotte city council and they charge CATS with implementation.

So the question is if a department in Charlotte royally screws up and costs the taxpayers a great deal of money due to incompetance, bungling, etc, then who should be held accountable. The head of the department? The City Manager? The Mayor who has said it would not happen again? etc..

[dubone]

Another option in your etcetera is the consulting company that was contractually obligated to deliver quality work, but failed to. If I hire an inspector to tell me what is wrong with a house, it is them who have the expertise and the responsibility to find something. If they fail, how could I have possibly known where to look? Should I hire two inspectors?

It seems to me, that if there is a problem with the house, it was the inspector that should have found it, not me, even though I was in charge and paying him.