Highrises in SC (where to find them)

[monsoon]

The Pennisula part of Charleston developed the way it did, because it was developed before the automobile.

Myrtle Beach would have nothing. It would be Edisto Beach.

Well no that isn't the case because as I said earlier there is significant development beyond Ocean Blvd which you seem to keep forgetting. Edisto Beach does not come even close.

For example Myrtle Beach has a baseball park right in the city about a mile or so from Ocean Blvd. This park is located on Grissim Blvd which is a long avenue that winds through the city that features walking and bike riding trails. It is new construction too. There are thousands of residential units within walking distance of this park. To my knowledge there is no other city in SC, including Charleston, that has a downtown ball park for the local residents. And no other city in SC is building such pedestrian friendly development on this scale.

There are more examples of this in the city but this is one that I happen to have a photo of.

This also shows the level of construction right in the oldest part of Myrtle Beach. These places often do have retail on the ground floor facing the sidewalk because they are big money makers. This photo was taken around 10th Avenue N. looking north, 2 years ago. Unfortunately people renting this property are not counted as residents though many often stay there for months at a time during the winter months.

[Spartan]

Well no that isn't the case because as I said earlier there is significant development beyond Ocean Blvd which you seem to keep forgetting. Edisto Beach does not come even close.

No, I didn't forget. My example was barring the development generated by tourism. Edisto Beach is the only beach town in SC I can think of that has not been hyper-commercialized. Please understand that I do realize that MB does have a significant part of the old city. My only point by my example before waso only to emphasize that Charleston would still be an urban place whether it had tourists or not. I simply do not buy your arguement that Charleston somehow lacks urbanity just because it is becoming more touristy and gentrified. If thats the case then what is Myrtle Beach? I'd wager than almost nobody can afford those highrise condos that is actually from Myrtle Beach!

For example Myrtle Beach has a baseball park right in the city about a mile or so from Ocean Blvd. And no other city in SC is building such pedestrian friendly development on this scale.

Greenville is about to open its new ball park downtown (West End) which will be a fine asset to the community. Spartanburg has Duncan Park, less than 1 mile from downtown that is the oldest minor league park in the nation (ca 1920s). Columbia is getting a baseball park via USC, which will be downtown near the river I think. Charleston also has its ballpark near the Citadel, which is also near downtown. Myrtle Beach is certainly not unique here

[monsoon]

When I said "building on this scale", I meant new development on Grissom Parkway. It runs from 17th Ave South to 48th Ave North. The baseball stadium is but one example that I happen to have a photo of. Most new development in SC in other cities, Charleston, Greenville, and Columbia included is sprawl based.

[Charleston native]

The Pennisula part of Charleston developed the way it did, because it was developed before the automobile.

Well no that isn't the case because as I said earlier there is significant development beyond Ocean Blvd which you seem to keep forgetting. Edisto Beach does not come even close.

For example Myrtle Beach has a baseball park right in the city about a mile or so from Ocean Blvd. This park is located on Grissim Blvd which is a long avenue that winds through the city that features walking and bike riding trails. It is new construction too. There are thousands of residential units within walking distance of this park. To my knowledge there is no other city in SC, including Charleston, that has a downtown ball park for the local residents. And no other city in SC is building such pedestrian friendly development on this scale...

This is completely false. Have you been to the Charleston Riverdogs ballpark? It is not located out in the suburbs...it is located just a block away from the medical district, next to The Citadel, near many different urban neighborhoods in downtown. This ballpark is very attractive for local residents, and it was rated as one of the best urban minor league ballparks in the nation a few years ago.

[Greenville]

While Myrtle Beach has some impressive construction going on, it always has and always will be a resort. I don't see it ever becoming truly urban, aside from up and down the road that runs along the beach. And MB certainly has its share of sprawl, especially for a city its size (heavy tourism obviously contributes to this).

[Charleston native]

When I said "building on this scale", I meant new development on Grissom Parkway. It runs from 17th Ave South to 48th Ave North. The baseball stadium is but one example that I happen to have a photo of. Most new development in SC in other cities, Charleston, Greenville, and Columbia included is sprawl based.

Again, I don't know where you get this observation, but it is off base. Chas has more units being built DT close together than I have ever seen, including the apartment complex next to Comfort Inn on Lockwood. More units are scheduled to be built around the old Cooper River bridges' footprints, around Concord Street with affordable housing, and Meeting Street. Yes, there is suburban development, but this whole country prefers the 'burbs. Most people want a large house with a yard and not crammed next to their neighbors.

This gentrification issue is also off base...some people have actually created a negative connotation for cleaning up communities, renovating them, and making them attractive to newcomers! While I don't like the idea of the city merely having multi-million dollar vacation homes, there are high-level professionals who own and live in these massive historic dwellings DT. There are people who are coming to DT and living full-time there. I wouldn't be surprised if the DT population increased in the next census.

[monsoon]

While Myrtle Beach has some impressive construction going on, it always has and always will be a resort. I don't see it ever becoming truly urban, aside from up and down the road that runs along the beach. And MB certainly has its share of sprawl, especially for a city its size (heavy tourism obviously contributes to this).

If the Myrtle Beach area can't become urban despite 128 highrises and more being announced everyday. Then I don't know what city in SC will as most of the rest of the state, with the possible exception of downtown Columbia is mostly lowrise sprawl.

[digital_sandlapper]

I can't imagine me or anyone else WALKING down the streets of Myrtle Beach to shop or dine as in Charleston-how absurd! Myrtle Beach is not only too spread out and built to encourage car dependency, there simply are no good shops or restaurants in the business district. Sure, there are hotels, hot dog joints, souvenir shops, arcades, dives, amusement parks (although not for long), etc., along Ocean Boulevard, abandoned storefronts in the small downtown (partially demolished for the Pavilion expansion about 15 years ago, ironically) , fast-food joints, a church or two, miniature golf monstrosities, and suburban-style strip development along King's Highway, and banks and other office buildings along Oak Street-but that

[monsoon]

Don

[teshadoh]

That may very well be a good point metro - but going back to my first query, what constitutes urbanity? Is the existence of a densely BUILT environment superior to a densely permanently POPULATED environment? I think these are two very separate items that are rarely combined in the US - NYC for example. Otherwise we often have areas of high concentrations of built densities in the fashion of skyscrapers that often fair poorly to the concerns of an urban aesthetic.

[sonofaque86]

Los Angeles downtown isn't that dense but that deosn't represent the true size of the city

[krazeeboi]

So in other words, we should use Emporis's list of the number of highrises in a city as a ranking of urbanity? So Myrtle Beach becomes the most urban city in the Carolinas because it has more highrises? Sounds fishy to me...

[monsoon]

So in other words, we should use Emporis's list of the number of highrises in a city as a ranking of urbanity? So Myrtle Beach becomes the most urban city in the Carolinas because it has more highrises? Sounds fishy to me...

Maybe if you bothered to read what I actually asked it wouldn't sound so fishy.

[Charleston native]

Hey I love MB, and I do think it is very urban. And I have never thought MB didn't belong in the discussion of urban areas. I just have an issue with the things mentioned about Chas, especially when some of the statements are completely false.

[krazeeboi]

Maybe if you bothered to read what I actually asked it wouldn't sound so fishy.

I bothered to read it, and that sounds like the connection you were trying to make.

While highrises may be a sign of urbanity, it does not necessarily follow. One can exist in absence of the other. For me, highrises is the last thing I consider when determining whether or not a place is urban; so it is largely irrelevant to me from an urban point of view.

[Spartan]

Well actually the thread started simply as list of places where you will find highrises in SC and asked if highrise buildings a real sign of density and urban development.

I find it amusing that almost every person who has posted here from SC, upon seening the numbers, has taken the opportunity to bash Myrtle Beach, dismiss the statistic as being irrelevant, say it will never be urban because it is a tourist trap, Charleston is the wonderful area of urbanity in SC, and so forth. Honesly it sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me since Myrtle Beach is at the top of the list. The building of highrises is a good thing, yet there isn't one post in this thread that would say that because they happen to be in Myrtle Beach. A skyscraper being built in Columbia/Greenville/Charleston, when it happens is good, when it happens in Myrtle Beach the SC forumer will say, "its in a resort so it doesn't matter".

Not really. What I take issue with is that you seem to have a double standard for Charleston and Myrtle Beach. You say Charleston is becoming gentrified and its is basicly a dead city without its tourists, but then turn around and say that Myrtle Beach is not, because it has condo highrises (as well as hotel highrises). What would Myrtle Beach be without its million of tourists supporting it? The other parts of Myrtle Beach (like everything west of Kings Hwy and north of MB proper is suburban in nature. IMO, you seem to have 'sour grapes' that Myrtle Beach is frequently overlooked in SC as an urban space. And perhaps you are justified in that. But to say that Charleston's gentrificaiton is any different that rich Yankees buying up MB condominums is absurd.

I certainly did not intend to imply that Myrtle Beach is not urban. The topic, however, is whether highrises are a sign of density and urban development. At this level, I can agree that the answer is yes, but I think that it is necesesary to emphasize that skyscrapers are not the sole criterion. Charleston is urban, ragerdless of any gentrification process, or tourist activity. Charleston has height riestricitons which generally prohibit towers of any sort, so hotels there are not at the MB scale. I think that if those restrictions were not in place, that Charleston would be lined with skyscrapers overlooking the harbor.

What about that tower in Greensboro that is going up along the interstate in some suburban area? Does that skyscraper mean that area is becoming urban? What about clusters of hotels along any interstate exit (like #19 on 85 in Anderson, Greystone Ave on 126 in Columbia, and Montague on 26 (I think) in N Chas)? Are these areas urban justbecasue you have highrise developents? What about the Perimeter/Dunwoody area in Atlanta. It has skyscrapers too... is that urban? SouthPark in Charlotte? I think that they are not. They have urban qualities, but the presence of highrise developments does not imply urbanity. This is, of course, different from the Chas/MB example, but I think it makes my point.

But I look at it this way, the prices for a condo in Myrtle Beach are no different from a home in Harleston Village, Ansonborough, Radcliffeborough, or the French Quarter ($400,000 - $800,000). How is the situation in Myrtle Beach any different than in Charleston? The fact that it has highrise towers doesn't change the situation.

I would argue the building of the highrises is a sign of dense urban development and it is certainly a sign of economic growth. I find the responses in this thread ironic since some of the most often talked about subjects in the SC forum are the growth of MSA's CSA's, and other population discussions that forget that most of it is sprawl. What is often missed in these discussions are the fact that this population growth is occuring over massive land areas and there is litte to no growth in the city itself relative to the metro. Charleston, Greenville, Columbia, and Spartanburg have all had this problem unlike Myrtle Beach whose MSA is growing because of the city itself. The building of highrises allows for good density. The lack of them with a lot of population growth is an indication there is a lot of sprawl.

I bothered to read it, and that sounds like the connection you were trying to make.

While highrises may be a sign of urbanity, it does not necessarily follow. One can exist in absence of the other. For me, highrises is the last thing I consider when determining whether or not a place is urban; so it is largely irrelevant to me from an urban point of view.

I agree that highrises are great for density. Just look at what Charlotte is accomplishing with all of its highrises, etc. But a highrises in exchange for compact land use are just as good as, if not better than, highrise developments. Just look at any European city, and you'll see what I mean

I do realize that we are in America, so the European comparison is not entirely relevant. So, compare Myrtle Beach's growth to that of the rest of the Carolinas, and you do see a larger proportion of highrise/SFR units, but that is expected since the ocean is a major draw for development (eg Florida). I am unable to find similar statistics from 1990 and 2000 at this point that show change in SFR vs Multi-Family units. None of those highrises are being built away from the ocean though. And not all of them are being built in Myrtle Beach proper.

[monsoon]

Not really. What I take issue with is that you seem to have a double standard for Charleston and Myrtle Beach. You say Charleston is becoming gentrified and its is basicly a dead city without its tourists, but then turn around and say that Myrtle Beach is not, because it has condo highrises (as well as hotel highrises).

Well actually when I created this thread I didn't say any of that about Myrtle Beach. However you first responded here by pointing out that Charleston is an example of urban and that was why Myrtle Beach isn't. And you gave incorrect information about both places. I responded to that because the criticism towards Mrytle Beach is unwarranted.

[Spartan]

Well actually when I created this thread I didn't say any of that about Myrtle Beach. However you first responded here by pointing out that Charleston is an example of urban and that was why Myrtle Beach isn't. And you gave incorrect information about both places. I responded to that because the criticism towards Mrytle Beach is unwarranted.

Right, but in the process Myrtle Beach did come up, and you responded in kind. The only incorrect information I gave was about the peninsula's population. The rest is my opinion, and I don't appreciate being berated because of my opinion. Myrtle Beach is bound to be an area of interest given its unique situation in having the most highrises in the Carolinas while being one of the smaller MSAs in the two states, so I don't understand your objection to it being brought up. I feel that have gone out of my way to not attack Myrtle Beach, so I apologize if I did in some way. And once again I will say that I am not saying that Myrtle Beach is not urban, only that it is not more urban than Charleston, and that skyscrapers do not always equate to urbanity (eg Charleston). I am starting to feel like a broken record.