I40/White Bridge Rd./Briley Parkway Construction

[The Tot Pack]

does anyone know the status of Vietnam Vets going to 109 in Gallatin? It is suppose to ease the extremely heavy Gallatin Rd from Gallatin-Hendersonville. I see the construction Vietnam Vets. over Gallatin Rd. is almost complete but I can't see way out Ocana from the road. And has anyone notice the sudden boom on Gallatin Road? Virtually Vol State and South of that is being developed. Its very exciting!

[nashscan]

does anyone know the status of Vietnam Vets going to 109 in Gallatin? It is suppose to ease the extremely heavy Gallatin Rd from Gallatin-Hendersonville. I see the construction Vietnam Vets. over Gallatin Rd. is almost complete but I can't see way out Ocana from the road. And has anyone notice the sudden boom on Gallatin Road? Virtually Vol State and South of that is being developed. Its very exciting!

Isn't it great? "Gallatin Road" from DT Nashville to a little past Gallatin is five lanes with businesses and residences for about 30 miles.

[The Tot Pack]

Isn't it great? "Gallatin Road" from DT Nashville to a little past Gallatin is five lanes with businesses and residences for about 30 miles.

are you being sarcastic? cause i wasn't talking about the traffic situation, i was talking about the development of new buisnesses...

[nashscan]

I very mixed emotions about 840. I'm looking forward to to completion of the southern route in about three years, I hope, and I'm happy to hear that the final leg has FINALLY been approved. However, I'm really concerned that this road will ultimately serve as the biggest future influence on suburban sprawl that there is. I hate suburban sprawl and I wish civic leader throughout the entire Middle Tennessee area would get together and come up with a comphehensive plan to limit sprawl in the Nashville Metro area (all 13 counties should play an active role). I'm glad for now that the North portion of 840 has been put on hold.

I want I-840 to be a complete circle. I want immediate closure on this issue. Nashville needs 840.

[smeagolsfree]

I want I-840 to be a complete circle. I want immediate closure on this issue. Nashville needs 840

Only problem is the northern route of 840 is essentially dean and the southern route will not be completed before 2011. At the current rate of construction financing the northern loop would not be finished before 2020 and then we will be behind. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you but I dont think it will happen under the current administration or even the next because of the probably 1 billion dollar price tag.

[satalac]

Think live in Murf. and work in Cool Springs - do you really want that drive? Old Fort Prkwy exit to Cool Springs Blvd. exit example:

1) I-24 to 840 to I-65 = 35 miles

2) I-24 to Bell Rd/OHB to I-65 = 34 miles

Surprising? I'm sorry I know this - really! But my point is this: yes 840 is the better route, but it is not a great route for a 'burb sprawler. We need Cool Springs connected to Sam Ridley to help inner city traffic in this example.

840 is a get-of-town and bypass-town road. It is designed to not be 'convenient' for those around the loop. I have too much experience on I-65 and I-24 going all directions with a little I-40 experience, but all of these roads have enough trucks to easily fill one highway lane. Get the truck traffic on 840 and out of DT and we will drive in a different world - called a city.

you have to remember however that traffic on I-24 during the rush is HORRIBLE. i make the drive from murfreesboro to hickory hollow pkwy (the exit before ohb) and traffic is really bad. on 840 at the same time, traffic is almost non-exisitant comparatively. so while it might be one mile shorter to take 24 to ohb, it's also going to take a lot longer to get there due to traffic (and don't even get me started on ohb to brentwood, i drove that nightmare for 5 years haha).

[Hankster]

Oh boy, can of worms opened.

SR-840 - In general, this road does not have the design to promote suburban sprawl. Yes, there will be some isolated cases associated with it. This will happen around the legs (I-65, I-24, and I-40 east); but the growth in these areas will be along the legs - not the bypass. In these cases, the bypass will be used as a connector to the legs. This can be good; example - the new Super Speedway. Movement of goods and people along this route will keep traffic out of DT area. Murfreesboro and Lebanon benefit due to locations outside of the loop. Franklin is inside the loop by only 5 miles, but it will not be beneficial to them in terms of sprawl.

Think live in Murf. and work in Cool Springs - do you really want that drive? Old Fort Prkwy exit to Cool Springs Blvd. exit example:

1) I-24 to 840 to I-65 = 35 miles

2) I-24 to Bell Rd/OHB to I-65 = 34 miles

Surprising? I'm sorry I know this - really! But my point is this: yes 840 is the better route, but it is not a great route for a 'burb sprawler. We need Cool Springs connected to Sam Ridley to help inner city traffic in this example.

840 is a get-of-town and bypass-town road. It is designed to not be 'convenient' for those around the loop. I have too much experience on I-65 and I-24 going all directions with a little I-40 experience, but all of these roads have enough trucks to easily fill one highway lane. Get the truck traffic on 840 and out of DT and we will drive in a different world - called a city.

That is the case today, but you are not looking forward enough. As soon as the road is completed from Dickson over to Lebanon, a ton of new businesses will begin to locate along the road. I expect to see distribution centers among the first. That's where the trucks will be driving so to escape the Nashville traffic. Traffic on 840 will rise to several times what it is today almost immediately and the businesses (i.e. jobs) will follow. This will lead to housing subdivisions being built along the road to be closer ot all the new jobs being created. Of course, that will lead to even more businesses locating out there. Thus the snowball effect.

I can remember when there were no businesses and very little traffic along I-285 in Atlanta. It was an easy drive along a four lane road (only two lanes in each direction)! That was little more than 30 years ago. Very few people lived outside the I-285 perimeter. The population of Gwinnett County was only 50,000. Today it is nearly 750,000.

It will take time for the suburban sprawl process around 840 to take effect; but, believe me it WILL happen. And once it does it, the pristine countryside that you see today will become an ever growing suburban mass. This is why I'm concerned. I'm not too concerned about the next ten years or so. I'm concerned for the next 20 or 30 years out.

[nashscan]

are you being sarcastic? cause i wasn't talking about the traffic situation, i was talking about the development of new buisnesses...

I'm serious. I'm pleased to see development 30 miles outside of town.

[ATLBrain]

Hankster, I worry about that happening to 840 too. Maybe if Williamson and Rutherford take the lead and corral development along the Sam Ridley or that other tollway they've been talking about, then they would be less inclined to give the store to developers along 840. In an ideal world they would trade-off the routes closer to Davidson Co. and see if there would be any appetite for conservation along 840. If a little high-tech (and biotech) were to build a few campuses along the 840 then that might not be too bad.

The conservation thing does work well. I've seen it in California around Walnut Creek and Palo Alto. So it's up to Williamson and Rutherford, but they'll have to start now.

[LA_TN]

you have to remember however that traffic on I-24 during the rush is HORRIBLE. i make the drive from murfreesboro to hickory hollow pkwy (the exit before ohb) and traffic is really bad. on 840 at the same time, traffic is almost non-exisitant comparatively. so while it might be one mile shorter to take 24 to ohb, it's also going to take a lot longer to get there due to traffic (and don't even get me started on ohb to brentwood, i drove that nightmare for 5 years haha).

Well, trust me on this: I-24 traffic flows VERY well. IMO, there are a few improvements needed at a few exits (Bell Rd. merge lanes), but overall it is a nice drive. You have to remember when driving from Murf. to DT; one only loses about 5 min, maybe 10 max, on a normal day during rush. Trust me, that is nothing to complain about. When you're driving at speeds over 50 mph during rush; be very, very happy.

A large volume of cars does not equal horrible traffic - it's the vehicles per lane and the average speed. I-440 from I-24 to I-65 has the highest vehicles per lane counts, followed by I-40/I-24 stretch past Fesslers Lane. Ironically, both sections flow fairly well (average speeds around 40 mph). Interesting?

Murf. to Cool Springs via 840 during morning rush is ok. Returning to Murf. during evening rush is very bad. Add 15-20 min to return commute where I-65 reduces back to 2 lanes.

OHB has a light timing issue with the new light past Edmonson Pk. It has added 5 min to a commute from Nolensville Rd. However, the people living between Edmonson Pk. and I-65 have gained 5-10 min in their commute and the I-65 interchange is much less congested in the mornings. I've came to the conclusion that the traffic light czar is punishing those who drive furtherest...

Actually, I should have included option 3 to my example: I-24 to I-440 to I-65 south to Cool Springs Blvd. because that is actually the fastest commute time-wise of the three. However, that is morning only because of the I-40 const backing up traffic on I-440 (plus one less lane) during evening rush. I have no good answers for an evening eastward commute. However, once on I-24 during evening rush, the flow is good (above 50 mph average)

[LA_TN]

That is the case today, but you are not looking forward enough. As soon as the road is completed from Dickson over to Lebanon, a ton of new businesses will begin to locate along the road. I expect to see distribution centers among the first. That's where the trucks will be driving so to escape the Nashville traffic. Traffic on 840 will rise to several times what it is today almost immediately and the businesses (i.e. jobs) will follow. This will lead to housing subdivisions being built along the road to be closer ot all the new jobs being created. Of course, that will lead to even more businesses locating out there. Thus the snowball effect.

I can remember when there were no businesses and very little traffic along I-285 in Atlanta. It was an easy drive along a four lane road (only two lanes in each direction)! That was little more than 30 years ago. Very few people lived outside the I-285 perimeter. The population of Gwinnett County was only 50,000. Today it is nearly 750,000.

It will take time for the suburban sprawl process around 840 to take effect; but, believe it WILL happen. And once it does it, the pristine countryside that you see today will become an ever growing suburban mass. This is why I'm concerned. I'm not too concerned about the next ten years or so. I'm concerned for the next 20 or 30 years out.

Hopefully, traffic increases dramatically the day the southern loop is completed. They should put some additional signs up to encourage thru traffic to use it.

As for the snowball effect and 20-30 years from now; well, that's called planning. This is a prime example of why we need a metro planning commision consisting of ALL the counties surrounding Davidson. TDOT must accept responisbility to protect the future of this road - it is a limited access road, so limit the access. Does I-65 need 4 exits in 4 miles at Franklin/Cool Springs? Yes. But 840 should be protected. I wish I could give a guarantee. Roads like Cool Springs to Sam Ridley will be more convenient that 840, espically if 840 access is limited; thus, drawing the local flavor. I've heard the "Why not build on 840" thing since the first leg was opened to Murf. That's been 10 years now. You have to have people first.

Portland is the only area that is drawing people in. They are the exception to the rule. Normally, businesses follow the people. Control that and you're good to go for 50+ years. Don't control the sprawl and Davidson County will be the big loser.

[LA_TN]

Hankster, I worry about that happening to 840 too. Maybe if Williamson and Rutherford take the lead and corral development along the Sam Ridley or that other tollway they've been talking about, then they would be less inclined to give the store to developers along 840. In an ideal world they would trade-off the routes closer to Davidson Co. and see if there would be any appetite for conservation along 840. If a little high-tech (and biotech) were to build a few campuses along the 840 then that might not be too bad.

The conservation thing does work well. I've seen it in California around Walnut Creek and Palo Alto. So it's up to Williamson and Rutherford, but they'll have to start now.

I agree, but Williamson and Rutherford have not been willing to step up to the plate. TDOT will become a middle-man in this debate. I-285 was built on <15 mile radius while SR-840 is built on a 30 mile radius. Atlanta has been talking about building a road like 840. Sprawl will eventually reach 840, but hopefully the population will be 6 million when it happens.

This is a controversial issue. There is no incentive for any county outside Davidson to limit 840 growth, a higher power is needed. Hope...

[satalac]

Well, trust me on this: I-24 traffic flows VERY well. IMO, there are a few improvements needed at a few exits (Bell Rd. merge lanes), but overall it is a nice drive. You have to remember when driving from Murf. to DT; one only loses about 5 min, maybe 10 max, on a normal day during rush. Trust me, that is nothing to complain about. When you're driving at speeds over 50 mph during rush; be very, very happy.

A large volume of cars does not equal horrible traffic - it's the vehicles per lane and the average speed. I-440 from I-24 to I-65 has the highest vehicles per lane counts, followed by I-40/I-24 stretch past Fesslers Lane. Ironically, both sections flow fairly well (average speeds around 40 mph). Interesting?

Murf. to Cool Springs via 840 during morning rush is ok. Returning to Murf. during evening rush is very bad. Add 15-20 min to return commute where I-65 reduces back to 2 lanes.

OHB has a light timing issue with the new light past Edmonson Pk. It has added 5 min to a commute from Nolensville Rd. However, the people living between Edmonson Pk. and I-65 have gained 5-10 min in their commute and the I-65 interchange is much less congested in the mornings. I've came to the conclusion that the traffic light czar is punishing those who drive furtherest...

Actually, I should have included option 3 to my example: I-24 to I-440 to I-65 south to Cool Springs Blvd. because that is actually the fastest commute time-wise of the three. However, that is morning only because of the I-40 const backing up traffic on I-440 (plus one less lane) during evening rush. I have no good answers for an evening eastward commute. However, once on I-24 during evening rush, the flow is good (above 50 mph average)

i'm still going to have to respectfully disagree. while it does flow, it doesn't do it as quickly as 840 does. the traffic that i go through everyday on 24 averages around 55 mph while on 840 you can average 70 + (police presence permitting of course ) you face two bottle necks going 24 to ohb (excluding 24 itself). there is the bell road section that is always backed up and then the ohb/I65 exit that backs up sometimes to edmonson pike. the 840 route really only backs up once and that is on I65 before it reaches 4 lanes at 96.

[Hankster]

Hopefully, traffic increases dramatically the day the southern loop is completed. They should put some additional signs up to encourage thru traffic to use it.

Don't worry, it will...big time. It will surprise people just how fast it will happen. Just wait until basically 90%+ of all the truck traffic on I-40 changes their route to 840. It will happen the very moment the last unfinished section is opened. Of course, it will be a dream for commuters not having to put up with all that truck traffic in downtown Nashville. Commercial truck traffic is over 30% of all vehicular traffic on rural interstates today, and this figure is growing. I-40 is considered the number one East-West interstate route in the nation for commercial truckers.

As for the snowball effect and 20-30 years from now; well, that's called planning. This is a prime example of why we need a metro planning commision consisting of ALL the counties surrounding Davidson. TDOT must accept responisbility to protect the future of this road - it is a limited access road, so limit the access. Does I-65 need 4 exits in 4 miles at Franklin/Cool Springs? Yes. But 840 should be protected. I wish I could give a guarantee. Roads like Cool Springs to Sam Ridley will be more convenient that 840, espically if 840 access is limited; thus, drawing the local flavor. I've heard the "Why not build on 840" thing since the first leg was opened to Murf. That's been 10 years now. You have to have people first.

Problem is there is absolutely NO planning to that effect in the counties that this road goes through. All four of the counties (Dickson, Williamson, Rutherford, and Wilson) are just licking their chops over all the development opportunities that this road will open up. How are we going to get all these counties to work together? The only way is for the people to let it known that they are against development along 840, and that they will vote out politicians who will support growth there. Problem is, I don't hear any groundswell at all for something like that. Personally, I think were headed right down the path of Atlanta-like suburban sprawl and 840 will play a significant role in this happening.

[LA_TN]

i'm still going to have to respectfully disagree. while it does flow, it doesn't do it as quickly as 840 does. the traffic that i go through everyday on 24 averages around 55 mph while on 840 you can average 70 + (police presence permitting of course ) you face two bottle necks going 24 to ohb (excluding 24 itself). there is the bell road section that is always backed up and then the ohb/I65 exit that backs up sometimes to edmonson pike. the 840 route really only backs up once and that is on I65 before it reaches 4 lanes at 96.

What you're saying is correct; but my point is that when, during rush, you are averaging speeds over 50 mph and losing less than 10 minutes drive time - be very, very happy. Most cities would laugh at our 'traffic'.

Going east from DT and West End are the only bad commutes (losing >15 min average). I believe, widening I-40 will help the flow from DT on I-40 should indirectly help I-440 some.

I'm not disagreeing with you, simply pointing out that as Nashville grows that this is acceptable traffic flow. Also, we can't compare an unfinished 840 with <10,000 vehicles per day to I-24 with 120-140,000 vehicles per day. 840 is obviously good for now, but I wouldn't buy a house with this logic...

[LA_TN]

Hankster, in reply to your thread. I think that these four counties are licking their chops too. But I think Williamson County is the least and Rutherford is most in this. I think Rutherford Co. is the biggest threat to this road due to the development patterns present today and the location of the road in relation to Smyrna/LaVergne and Murf. I don't think Williamson County wants any truckstops in their neighborhoods. I agree Williamson Co. would like to use this for sprawl; heck look at Thompson Station and Spring Hill.

This road was built for Nashville in surrounding counties, now how does Nashville control it? Elect me as the road czar? TDOT will be the middle-man in debates over this road in 10-15 years. We need a regional or state oversight board - immediately.

[satalac]

What you're saying is correct; but my point is that when, during rush, you are averaging speeds over 50 mph and losing less than 10 minutes drive time - be very, very happy. Most cities would laugh at our 'traffic'.

Going east from DT and West End are the only bad commutes (losing >15 min average). I believe, widening I-40 will help the flow from DT on I-40 should indirectly help I-440 some.

I'm not disagreeing with you, simply pointing out that as Nashville grows that this is acceptable traffic flow. Also, we can't compare an unfinished 840 with <10,000 vehicles per day to I-24 with 120-140,000 vehicles per day. 840 is obviously good for now, but I wouldn't buy a house with this logic...

i agree with you. it sure beats the 405 in cali. haha. traffic really isn't that bad in nashville. i guess i'm just impatient and want to be going at 70 + mph at all times. haha

[Hankster]

This road was built for Nashville in surrounding counties, now how does Nashville control it? Elect me as the road czar? TDOT will be the middle-man in debates over this road in 10-15 years. We need a regional or state oversight board - immediately.

Very true. The road was built to help the surrounding counties. Nashville will have absolutely no control over growth in those counties resulting from this road. It WILL contribute to bringing more business opportunites throughout the 4-county area. 840 will contribute to "sucking" even more people from Nashville to the "pristine" countryside so that they have have their piece and quiet near the big city. I have a little advice to anyone thinking of doing that. One day they'll wake up and ask this question, "Where the hell did the piece and quiet that I used to have go?" The traffic and congestion that they tried to escape will swallow them up. They'll be looking at an ugly expanse of strip malls, endless parking lots, signs everywhere, heavy traffic, seemingly endless, long commutes and wish they didn't live there. I know several people in Atlanta that will tell you that exactly what I have described has happened to them. Where will it end?

I'll get off my soap box and say this. A regional or state oversight board is about the only way a future like this can be avoided, unless it becomes trendy and cool for the majority of the populace to move back into the urban environment. I see nothing of the sort happening, and I can't see the majority of metro Nashvillians moving into the city until the city school system is perceived to be at least equal to any of the other city and county school systems in the area.

If Nashville wants to have a little control in reducing the likelyhood of this happening, I strongly suggest that they find a way to greatly improve the quality of education received in their public school system.

[LA_TN]

The road was built to help the surrounding counties. Nashville will have absolutely no control over growth in those counties resulting from this road.

My point was that the road was built to benefit the city of Nashville, not the surrounding counties (although that's where it's built). We agree that the control of this road is key in controling sprawl.

I keep hearing the two common contributors to sprawl: 1) schools and 2) taxes. Maybe we should get the city to address these issues. Maybe it would be better to annex the surrounding counties so they will help pay for the stadiums and new convention center.

[LA_TN]

Also, noticed tonight while looking around that a new interchange is scheduled for Beasley Rd and 840 - which is about one mile from I-24

[Hankster]

My point was that the road was built to benefit the city of Nashville, not the surrounding counties (although that's where it's built). We agree that the control of this road is key in controling sprawl.

I keep hearing the two common contributors to sprawl: 1) schools and 2) taxes. Maybe we should get the city to address these issues. Maybe it would be better to annex the surrounding counties so they will help pay for the stadiums and new convention center.

One problem is that the counties in Tennessee are too small. Tennessee was settled and developed a long time ago when travel was very difficult. They were sized so that anyone in each county should be able to travel to the county courthouse in one day. Of course, back then the only mode of travel was by horse drawn wagon over rutted out dirt roads, many of which lacked bridges, requiring fording of streams. I remember my grandfather describing how it took him all day to travel about 15 miles to Clarksville back about 1900. By the definition of that day, Tennessee would only require one county, because anyone can travel to a point in the center of the state in one day.

I've often wondered why we continue to have so many counties. What's the point? Why not form one county which covers the entire Nashville metro area. Other counties could be formed for the other major Tennessee Metro areas. Then there would probably be seven or eight other counties of similar size for the largely rural areas of Tennessee. Imagine all the problems (840 planning for one) that could be solved if that were done.

[LA_TN]

Amen. I have experience with other cities and that tells me that the Metro gov't style is the only route to go. It the Sumner Co. border disappeared, wouldn't that be a good thing? Well, I agree but the 'truely' rural areas of Williamson Co. and farms in Rutherford Co. don't want any part of all of this city mess. And I don't think they should be included. My theory would be to annex the 'burbs that are contiguous to metro. Good luck getting people to support that.

[Hankster]

Amen. I have experience with other cities and that tells me that the Metro gov't style is the only route to go. It the Sumner Co. border disappeared, wouldn't that be a good thing? Well, I agree but the 'truely' rural areas of Williamson Co. and farms in Rutherford Co. don't want any part of all of this city mess. And I don't think they should be included. My theory would be to annex the 'burbs that are contiguous to metro. Good luck getting people to support that.

Personally I think that it could be sold if communicated correctly. My property taxes were actually quite low when I lived inside Davidson County but outside the Urban Services District. If people knew their property taxes wouldn't go up, then they just might support it. It would be a huge longshot though.