The History of the Triangle

[ChiefJoJo]

^ thanks for the info.

Over in Boylan Heights is the Mountfort home (which was built in 1858 for William Mountfort Boylan IIRC):

I took this on Sunday... shows the tracks that once led to Raleigh's Union Station (looking west towards the Boylan Wye):

Also, I found this great picture from 1940 in another forum... it really shows there have been some pretty large changes of the landscape over in the wye area (looking east towards Union Station):

It looks like there was no West St going through to Martin in this photo, and definitely, the railroad track grade from the NCRR north to the seaboard line must have changed a lot after the station closed... you can see the old wood trestle, part of which is still there (you can see them if you keep walking down the old tracks in the second picture).

[ChiefJoJo]

I found a portion of this article to be very interesting, especially regarding the Durham Freeway and other urban renewal housing projects:

Urban mythology, nostalgia, and other factors have rendered pre-renewal Hayti as a black Camelot, an idyllic, enterprising place wiped away by uncaring forces of a white-controlled City Hall and downtown business community.

The record indicates something different. Urban renewal would not have occurred, nor would the Durham Freeway have been built, without the support of Durham's black business community and the votes of black citizens.

...

Both [the freeway and housing] projects depended on voters approving bond issues in October 1962. The bond measures received enthusiastic support from the black business community and the black-owned Carolina Times newspaper, and both passed -- barely. In four primarily black precincts, 92 percent of voters supported the four renewal bonds, averaging 1,974 "yes" votes on issues that had average total margins of just 177 votes. In the same black precincts, 91.5 percent approved the freeway bond issue; citywide, the freeway carried less than 53 percent.

"We're talking about two projects," recalls Wense Grabarek, a Durham City Council member from 1957-61 and mayor from 1963-71, "that came into being strictly and solely because of the black vote and the black desire to have both of these programs."

There was no word of opposition at a public hearing on the freeway the next spring, and its first leg between Chapel Hill Street and Alston Avenue opened in early 1970. Also as a part of urban renewal, the Durham Housing Authority built Fayette Place apartments, opening them in 1968.

I found this astounding. I guess you read and hear so much (mis?)information about how major urban renewal projects such as this came into being supposedly against the wishes of the black community, but this article paints exactly the opposite picture. Recall some of the comments in the Indy East End Connector article...

"A lot of people believe N.C. 147 was built intentionally to disrupt the black power base," Williams says, resolutely. "When we see the East End Connector, we see vestiges of the racist past that disrupted Hayti."

"The state DOT was heavy-handed in trying to push through a project without the appropriate concern for people that were being affected," he says of N.C. 147. "It was forced down people's throats."

If this N&O article and the facts therein are indeed true, it's hard to see how those comments are anything but complete and total revisionist history, following a series of projects that were actually supported overwhelmingly by the citizens, but simply didn't fufill their promise.

[JeffC]

I found a portion of this article to be very interesting, especially regarding the Durham Freeway and other urban renewal housing projects:

Urban mythology, nostalgia, and other factors have rendered pre-renewal Hayti as a black Camelot, an idyllic, enterprising place wiped away by uncaring forces of a white-controlled City Hall and downtown business community.

The record indicates something different. Urban renewal would not have occurred, nor would the Durham Freeway have been built, without the support of Durham's black business community and the votes of black citizens.

...

Both [the freeway and housing] projects depended on voters approving bond issues in October 1962. The bond measures received enthusiastic support from the black business community and the black-owned Carolina Times newspaper, and both passed -- barely. In four primarily black precincts, 92 percent of voters supported the four renewal bonds, averaging 1,974 "yes" votes on issues that had average total margins of just 177 votes. In the same black precincts, 91.5 percent approved the freeway bond issue; citywide, the freeway carried less than 53 percent.

"We're talking about two projects," recalls Wense Grabarek, a Durham City Council member from 1957-61 and mayor from 1963-71, "that came into being strictly and solely because of the black vote and the black desire to have both of these programs."

There was no word of opposition at a public hearing on the freeway the next spring, and its first leg between Chapel Hill Street and Alston Avenue opened in early 1970. Also as a part of urban renewal, the Durham Housing Authority built Fayette Place apartments, opening them in 1968.

I found this astounding. I guess you read and hear so much (mis?)information about how major urban renewal projects such as this came into being supposedly against the wishes of the black community, but this article paints exactly the opposite picture. Recall some of the comments in the Indy East End Connector article...

"A lot of people believe N.C. 147 was built intentionally to disrupt the black power base," Williams says, resolutely. "When we see the East End Connector, we see vestiges of the racist past that disrupted Hayti."

"The state DOT was heavy-handed in trying to push through a project without the appropriate concern for people that were being affected," he says of N.C. 147. "It was forced down people's throats."

If this N&O article and the facts therein are indeed true, it's hard to see how those comments are anything but complete and total revisionist history, following a series of projects that were actually supported overwhelmingly by the citizens, but simply didn't fufill their promise.

Jo-Jo, I had the exact same thought when reading this and thinking about the (evidently) entirely fanciful portrayal of the destruction of Hayti over the years in the pages of the Independent...makes me wonder what other ill-researched if not downright false characterizations the paper has printed over the years. We've already discussed in other threads how terrible the Indy's coverage of Raleigh art, music, and culture is.

[ncwebguy]

A lie, repeated often enough, gets mistaken for truth. If you ask enough people who say they were there when things happened, and they all share the same story, why wouldn't you belive it is true?

Why voting records have never been accessed to flesh out the story, I have no idea. Community leaders would lose credibility if they were shown to have supported urban renewal. Over the years, the *premature ending* of the urban renewal project and the broken promises that came with it led to the morphing of history to the "urban renewal = urban removal" beliefs held today. There are a lot of parallels to Hayti in Durham and Southeast Raleigh, especially in South Park and the former neighborhoods near Shaw.

Unfortunatly, a lot of people who were moved didn't want to go back (or, if you talk to some people, weren't allowed back) when the plug was pulled on the urban renewal projects. These projects were supposed to keep the good and remove the bad, but ended up wiping everything out. In Raleigh, this led to the parking lots around the Pope House and Lincoln Theater. The concentration of lower income families in the then-new projects like Fayette Place, Chavis Heights, etc. quickly became crime magnets that made life for the needy residents difficult. It would be intersesting to see how much bond money was proposed, how much was spent, how it was spent, etc.

It is sad that the mistakes of the past stir up resisistance to projects like Heritage Square and the East End Connector. But at the same time, a lot of people live by the "fool me once, shame on you -- fool me twice, shame on me" mantra. They don't want to be "fooled" again, though, to me, the current conditions are not worth saving and are only dragging the community further down.

[WanderingRaleighite]

I have been doing some research around the area that I grew up in, Brentwood, and found out a couple of interesting things. New Hope Church Rd. was known as Chicken Farm Rd. The really interesting thing involves the Raleigh Speedway. I knew that it was located along Bush Rd., but I didn't know that it was developed and managed by William France until he went to Fla. to start a track at Daytona Beach. I also didn't know that it was the scene of the final race for stockcar's winningest co-driving monkey. Tim Flock started driving with a rhesus monkey at Hickory, as for the incident, I can't find any better wording than Flock's own which came from the Tim Flock Official Website http://www.timflock.com/jocko.htm

"I actually raced with a monkey, which I named Jocko Flocko, for eight races in 1953. It started as a publicity stunt, and we gave him his own driving uniform and a specially designed seat. Back then the cars had a trap door that we could pull open with a chain to check our tire wear. Well, during the Raleigh 300, Jocko got loose from his seat and stuck his head through the trap door, and he went berserk! Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! I had to come into the pits to put him out and ended up third. The pit stop cost me second place and a $600.00 difference in my paycheck. Jocko was retired immediately. I had to get that monkey off my back!"

Amazing what you find out about your own hometown.

[Jones_]

You can see teh exact location of the race track on Sanborn maps...this website has taken the time to cut away most of the map so you can see it better. New Hope Church Road also was the original Louisburg Road leading out of Raleigh. The full path from downtown is Wake Forest Road past Circus burger, left under old train bridge to resume as Wake Forest Road again, then after the beltline it follows St Albans to New Hope Church, then Deana and finally Louisburg Road. I am fairly sure it was part of the native american network of great trading paths before european settlement. Some tidbits: General Lafayette traveled this road to Raleigh in 1824 and was met by an escort of Charlotte cavalry at Crabtree Creek. A colonial plantation house(Nathanial Jones) still stands in the woods at the NW corner of wake forest and Six Forks. Camp Crabtree was one of three Civil War training camps near Raleigh and was on this plantation...the family Cemetary is still behind the Vitamin Shoppe. I recently found a civil war grave in the woods with a soldier who was mustered at Camp Crabtree which I thought was cool (its near the RBC Center). A large gunpowder mill was located where Al Smiths used car lot is at crabtree creek and blew up during the war and ccould be heard in the city. A large cemetary was also relocated where Capital and 401 cross....the old interchange configuration kept the graves intact but they were moved around the mid 90's.

[Gard]

You can see teh exact location of the race track on Sanborn maps...this website has taken the time to cut away most of the map so you can see it better. New Hope Church Road also was the original Louisburg Road leading out of Raleigh. The full path from downtown is Wake Forest Road past Circus burger, left under old train bridge to resume as Wake Forest Road again, then after the beltline it follows St Albans to New Hope Church, then Deana and finally Louisburg Road. I am fairly sure it was part of the native american network of great trading paths before european settlement. Some tidbits: General Lafayette traveled this road to Raleigh in 1824 and was met by an escort of Charlotte cavalry at Crabtree Creek. A colonial plantation house(Nathanial Jones) still stands in the woods at the NW corner of wake forest and Six Forks. Camp Crabtree was one of three Civil War training camps near Raleigh and was on this plantation...the family Cemetary is still behind the Vitamin Shoppe. I recently found a civil war grave in the woods with a soldier who was mustered at Camp Crabtree which I thought was cool (its near the RBC Center). A large gunpowder mill was located where Al Smiths used car lot is at crabtree creek and blew up during the war and ccould be heard in the city. A large cemetary was also relocated where Capital and 401 cross....the old interchange configuration kept the graves intact but they were moved around the mid 90's.

Is the Colonial plantation house protected by the state as a historical landmark or does it just sit abandoned in the woods? Is there any pictures of it out there? Just curious, I'm a big history buff and hate seeing things of historical value be left to rot.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Gard

[Jones_]

Is the Colonial plantation house protected by the state as a historical landmark or does it just sit abandoned in the woods? Is there any pictures of it out there? Just curious, I'm a big history buff and hate seeing things of historical value be left to rot.

It sits in the middle of Charlie Gaddy's larger parcel and the day I trepassed it looked occupied though needed a paint job. It does appear to be recognized as historic on the land classification. Here is the tax sheet but no pic other than the driveway. The date of construction differs a little from source to source and varies from 1790 to 1820. WIth the leaves off teh trees you can see it easily if you drove up Wake Towne Drive and pulled off and looked left.

edit: man, I missed this article...I did not realize Charlie Gaddy died. Article has a picture.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Jones133

[Gard]

The article states that the property could be sold. It would be nice if the city or state would purchase the property and restore it, especially since it is considered a national and local historical landmark. The money could put into it could be made back by turning the property into a park and creating a tourist attraction out of it. We have lost enough of our heritage to redevelopment, lets preserve one of the few remaining early buildings of the area.

[Jones_]

Good idea....it could function kind of like the Mordecai house does...they are about teh same age. The Jones site would look great with lot of those trees cleared to be a field like it would have looked 200 years ago. Extending a sput of the Crabtree greenway up the creek that comes up near the back of the property could also be a possibility. Seeing as how Raleigh' founding landmark, Isaac Hunters Tavern was also nearly adjacent to this house, recapping the City's founding would be a good drawing feature for the site. In Elizabeth Reid Murrays book has a picture of the Tavern and States it was in these woods somewhere. She is the number one Raleigh historian since Kemp Battle back in the 1890's who recapped all the early days of the city in a centennial speech.

[RaleighRob]

The state is putting up a historical marker for the Royal Ice Cream anti-segregation Sit-In in Durham: http://www.bullcityrising.com/2007/12/state-approves.html

Kinda wonder what took so long...better late than never I guess.

[Gard]

Find this really cool site that has a good writeup on the Raleigh Speedway and even some pictures of the track and an outline of where the track was over what is standing on the site today. It also has the race results from some of the races held there:

http://www.uthd.com/raleigh-speedway.html

It makes me wonder what this part of town would look like today if the track was still there and hosting NASCAR races.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Gard

[Jones_]

Would be great to have the national media attention of "Southern National Speedway in Raleigh NC" splashed around on ESPN. Might have some hotels and a midrise district stretching from North Hills to the speedway.

[Jones_]

Just some rainy day reading.....a 1970's architectural survey (printed 1978) I have has a picture of an estate called "Lotus Villa" c 1885 with an address of 2131 Downtown Blvd. Since Downtown Blvd does not exist anymore I assumed Capital maintained the same numbering. This exact number seems to have been lost in the jumble around Dunkin Donuts, Hideaway BBQ etc. It is an odd street number so that would be the west side of Capital, but I found some carved up property around the Flea Market Mall that looks like it was part of an old estate called the Baucom property, with a small sliver still owned by the descandants (the battery/car electric repair shop next to Hideaway is also a vestige of the Baucom property). An estate built in 1885 would not have located in the Pigeon House floodplain so it must have been perched on a hill nearby. Does anyone know the construction date of the Flea Market Mall or otherwise remember a neo-classic mansion with corinthian columns in this area? In 1885 it obviously would have had a driveway directly off the original Wake Forest Road alignment, so that also makes me think it sat where the FMM is but its hard to nail it down for sure.

[ChiefJoJo]

We've already discussed Raleigh's former Union Station. What about Durham's former terminal? Here's a very thorough look at Durham's former glory, Union Station.

[DPK]

Does anyone know the construction date of the Flea Market Mall

1967?

http://aws1.co.wake.nc.us/realestate/Build...9080&page=1

[DPK]

JoJo, beautiful pictures! This one makes me tear up a bit though:

I can't believe they did that. Now it's parking deck; couldn't they have at least saved the tower and integrated it as a stairwell or something for the deck. That or save the tower and the entire front facade to mask one side of the deck.

[urbanvb]

^ architecture like that (was) is not replacable.

[ChiefJoJo]

Does anyone recall the fire that mostly destroyed the Latta House? I don't remember hearing about it at all.

[Gard]

Does anyone recall the fire that mostly destroyed the Latta House? I don't remember hearing about it at all.

Yep, I remember that. Sad to see such a great piece of our history destroyed

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/530418.html

[Jones_]

there was a follow up article or two also about the quick demo.

[JeffC]

re Nathanial Jones house at NW corner of Six Forks and Wake Forest, they are doing some serious tree clearing along Wake forest, which I assume is for DOT's improvements to the Wake Forest/440 interchange (although the news that Gaddy has died makes me somewhat uneasy...it would be a travesty if that entire wooded hill was cleared...). In any event, they are going to have to dig out a chunk of that hill...I hope they are planning a retaining wall to save the rest of the hill.

[Jones_]

Yeah I saw that. The house itself sits a smaller separate tract from the rest of the Gaddy property so hopefully that means someting positive. From the time the house was built until 1900 or so the hill was probably cleared. Before the house was built it was probably an upland forest of either hardwood or long leaf pine (Wake is the border land for those two). Some archaelogical work could pinpoint where some of the outbuildings were including maybe even Isaac Hunters Tavern.....Elizabeth Reid Murray indentifies this tract as its location (she took a photograph of one buildind still standing in teh 1960's), despite the sign up at St Albans/Wake Forest. I am not sure if I prefer thick trees to shield it from people who would do it harm, or to thin the trees and bring attention to it and hopefully propel preservation efforts.

[urbanesq]

^ architecture like that (was) is not replacable.

I can't help but read this thread in combination with the discussion of the impending demolition of the Garland-Jones and Lawyers buildings to make room for the Wake County Judicial Center, and wonder if people won't say the same thing 20 years from now about the loss of those buildings. The price of progress, I suppose...

[ChiefJoJo]

National Art Interiors is moving from their historic location at Hillsborough & Glenwood. They have a sign saying the are relocating this spring. Wonder who will take that space? The building has been there quite a long time. I recall hearing that the concrete foundation was shared with the previous Hillsborough St bridge, built near the turn of the century.