Downtown Condo Market

[runawayjim]

I think what Basachs was trying to say is that sitting here calling those people illogical isn't going to magically change their perceptions. You need to accept that people will latch onto the one or two bad stories that get out as an example of what it's like downtown. The next step is working to change that perception, not just criticize it.

[Lone Ranger]

I think what Basachs was trying to say is that sitting here calling those people illogical isn't going to magically change their perceptions. You need to accept that people will latch onto the one or two bad stories that get out as an example of what it's like downtown. The next step is working to change that perception, not just criticize it.

[Recchia]

So how does one work to change people's perceptions then?

[JJK5]

So how does one work to change people's perceptions then?

[runawayjim]

the problem is that many of these people just plain hate cities and have no reason to ever go downtown because they don't have friends or relatives who like it and will never actually get out and see downtown.

things that can be changed to make it feel safer are better lighting and signage. the DID is all over during the day and early evening, so that's not a huge issue. it's nights that are the problem and better lighting could help.

[basachs]

I think Mr. Sachs must have a more compassionate heart than I do.

Takes all kinds.

[runawayjim]

Thanks for compliment....I think.

It is not so much compassion as reality. I mean, lets look at why we are talking about this in the first place. The ProJo had a survey, and people from all over the state and probably beyond responded to it. The overwhelming majority of posters basically came out and said that Providence was still a place to be feared. Now I know any idiot can post on the web , but what this does show is that there is still a lot of fear and pessimism out there around Providence, in spite of the improvements we have made.

Now these can all be suburban white picket fencers as runawayjim supposes, or not. We dont know. What this should tell us is that perception is reality for a lot of people. And as illogical as that may sound to us, our love of Providence can be as illogical to them.

So the next question is, do we care? Can we write all these people off and not have to work to change the perception of the city? Or do we say, "this survey is indicative of an issue that needs fixing". I am presuming the latter, because if it is the former, then why the heck are we talking about it in the first place?

[Lone Ranger]

Thanks for compliment....I think.

It is not so much compassion as reality. I mean, lets look at why we are talking about this in the first place. The ProJo had a survey, and people from all over the state and probably beyond responded to it. The overwhelming majority of posters basically came out and said that Providence was still a place to be feared. Now I know any idiot can post on the web , but what this does show is that there is still a lot of fear and pessimism out there around Providence, in spite of the improvements we have made.

Now these can all be suburban white picket fencers as runawayjim supposes, or not. We dont know. What this should tell us is that perception is reality for a lot of people. And as illogical as that may sound to us, our love of Providence can be as illogical to them.

So the next question is, do we care? Can we write all these people off and not have to work to change the perception of the city? Or do we say, "this survey is indicative of an issue that needs fixing". I am presuming the latter, because if it is the former, then why the heck are we talking about it in the first place?

[CtownMikey]

we just need those older generations to die out

[urbie]

Now these can all be suburban white picket fencers as runawayjim supposes, or not. We dont know. What this should tell us is that perception is reality for a lot of people. And as illogical as that may sound to us, our love of Providence can be as illogical to them.

[runawayjim]

Perceptions can last a long time -- Chicago still seems to have a reputation left over from Al Capone, and another one left over from Richard Daley I.

Some of my relatives from MA hear "Providence" and still think "mafia and Buddy." That's the reputation, and it takes a long time to change.

Speaking of which, though, since Meg and I are relatively late to the party here... I assume this forum has had the obligatory "Cianci: Good or Bad for the City?" discussion ad nauseum in the past? If so, where's the thread?

Urb

[urbie]

there has been some of that discussion randomly throughout the forum. i think the consensus is generally that he was both good and bad for the city. he got the renaissance rolling, but did it in sort of a not so great way.... "be careful, it's not italian anymore... it's mostly asians and hispanics now. at least when patriarca was around, they only killed each other." i'm afraid that a lot of the responses to the projo thing were related to that, which really speaks volumes about the people in RI (or at least those that read the projo).

[runawayjim]

I read most of the Projo's lengthy series on Cianci, and it was difficult to tell what his "net" effect had been -- both good and bad was the conclusion I came up with, so I guess it's not too far off the mark.

As for Asians and Latinos (which a friend of mine from AZ says is preferable to "Hispanic" by most these days, altho' it depends on which country you came from) moving in, that generally means more different kinds of FOOD, which is never a bad thing.... :F

Urb

[citybuilder]

But let's forget all that. Let's just say that there's been real change in Providence, there's been plenty of time for the change to take hold, and there's certainly plenty of positive buzz about Providence these days. Granted, the forward progress needs to continue, but people can feel free to stop living in the past any time now, and that'd be fine with me.

If people are willing to give Providence a chance, great. If not, they're being willfully ignorant, and I simply have no patience for them.

[runawayjim]

I don't think the overall opinion of the exurbian RI'ers matters much to the future vitality of downtown Providence. The stubborn persistence of perceptions dating from the 70's and 80's is immensely frustrating, and its like waving a red cape in front of the urbanist bull. Its tempting to try to change their minds, but not worth it.

The families that fled Providence when times were bad are not the people who will fuel the energy in downtown. If you look at successful revitalizations of city cores - NY after the 80's, Baltimore's inner harbor - it wasn't the people who left the city who came back when it got better. There are whole towns of people on Long Island and around Baltimore's western ring who rarely, if ever, go into the city to shop, eat, or get some culture. Their opinions about the cities that they grew up in, that were the homes of their parents and grandparents, remain stuck in the past.

Providence cannot be a closed loop system with RI. A 24/7 vibrant city will be fueled from outside the state, and from better engaging the newcomers we do have, who are under-engaged (immigrants, students, med residents, transitional professionals).

[Lone Ranger]

I don't think the overall opinion of the exurbian RI'ers matters much to the future vitality of downtown Providence. The stubborn persistence of perceptions dating from the 70's and 80's is immensely frustrating, and its like waving a red cape in front of the urbanist bull. Its tempting to try to change their minds, but not worth it.

The families that fled Providence when times were bad are not the people who will fuel the energy in downtown. If you look at successful revitalizations of city cores - NY after the 80's, Baltimore's inner harbor - it wasn't the people who left the city who came back when it got better. There are whole towns of people on Long Island and around Baltimore's western ring who rarely, if ever, go into the city to shop, eat, or get some culture. Their opinions about the cities that they grew up in, that were the homes of their parents and grandparents, remain stuck in the past.

Providence cannot be a closed loop system with RI. A 24/7 vibrant city will be fueled from outside the state, and from better engaging the newcomers we do have, who are under-engaged (immigrants, students, med residents, transitional professionals).

[CtownMikey]

I like Michael Corrente's quote on the Providencedowntown.com website... "Right now Downtown reminds me of living in New York City 20 years ago, the scene, the vibe, the community. Downtown is about to explode so it's fantastic to be a part of it all."

two posts above it was mentioned how NYC's 80's revival didn't depend on its residents who had left... theres a little connection there.

[runawayjim]

Oh I'm not counting on those people as the secret to Providence's future. But it would be really nice if certain RI'ers weren't so eager to badmouth their own capital city. Did you read the comments in that ProJo link? Jim has the word for it: some serious hating going on there.

On the other hand, while I agree that the families that fled Providence when times were bad aren't going to be returning (or contributing) to Providence anytime soon, I have great hopes for their children. The younger generation of RI'ers knows where their cultural capital lies.

[CtownMikey]

I think I'm one of those children

[Garris]

Providence cannot be a closed loop system with RI. A 24/7 vibrant city will be fueled from outside the state, and from better engaging the newcomers we do have, who are under-engaged (immigrants, students, med residents, transitional professionals).

[DavidSegal]

There are so many people who'd stick around or come if there were a law school in the city proper.

[runawayjim]

There are so many people who'd stick around or come if there were a law school in the city proper.

[Recchia]

Does Roger Williams have a law school? Besides that, I think the closest is SNESL in Dartmouth.

[mbz]

Does Roger Williams have a law school? Besides that, I think the closest is SNESL in Dartmouth.

[Frankie811]

Brown should absolutely have a law school.