Is Target the new Wal-Mart?

[Snowguy716]

jumping in late on this discussion... a few points.

manhattan big box... staples was left out.

CT dept store chains... caldors closed after walmart moved in, but before target as far as i know. bradlees was the same i believe (but i'm not sure bradlees was actually a CT company). ames was the last of those to leave, and was definitely a CT company. i think walmart was the main influence for those stores though. caldor was a more upscale type store, similar to what target is now, but their prices weren't much different. ames and kmart were the low end ones. target actually sells the same brands of clothing that caldor did. when walmart first moved to CT, caldor started lowering their prices in the towns where walmart was moving, but i believe walmart did the same and then caldor was gone. the reason i know this is my aunt was a big wig at caldor.

it's my opinion that target is not the new walmart nor will they ever be. they don't open nearly as many stores (here in RI, the city of warwick has 2 stores, it's neighbor cranston has 1 store, they're opening one in neighboring providence and one in johnston, which neighbors both cranston and providence). target, on the other hand, only has 3 locations in RI and no plans to build more that i know of. i wish the place in providence was becoming a target, not a walmart. aside from being cleaner and neater, you don't have people haggling you for money out front, you don't have someone greeting you at the door, and the quality of the goods is better. there are more people around the store and enough cashiers open in target to handle all the customers, there's rarely a long line to wait in. walmart's employees are not as helpful, don't really care about their jobs and there are never enough cashiers (there could be at least one more if they got rid of that stupid "greeter").

target is also more philanthropic (regardless of walmart's katrina donations) and does not have the evil pricing tricks (purposely having a very limited supply of something at an extremely low price to get you into the store to buy something that has a sticker to make it look like their prices are better than their competitors when really you are paying the same price you would elsewhere). their stores also are never cluttered.

My problem has never been rudeness or unfriendliness of employees at Wal-Mart.. it's finding them that's hard.

I actually had a very pleasant experience in Wal_mart before I came to Salzburg.. I was looking for a certain brand of body wash (Axe "Anti-Hangover").. and the lady was just going on about how it was brand new just on the shelf and just blabbing my ear off.. but hey.. I was happy to talk to her. It's what gets retail workers through the day sometimes.. just talking to customers. I personally do not like Wal-mart at all.. but hey.. bless anyone that can do that job 8 hours a day and still have a smile and some friendly words when you're looking for something.

[suburban george3]

Personally, I would choose to shop at Target over Wal-Mart anyday of the week. Like stated many times here, Target's stores are much more appealing with less cluttered aisles, lowered ceilings, and cleaner stores.

Fortunately for Target, they attract a higher income consumer on average than Wal-Mart and they also have a better PR image. Wal-Mart will feel the pinch first and harder in an economic downturn than Target would.

Target also seems to design stores that blend into their neighborhoods better than Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart kicked and screamed when new "big-box" regulations were passed in our town. They claimed they were some of the "most restrictive" they've ever seen and added a large cost to the building of the store. However, they're still building it with their sister, Lowes Hardware coming across the street! (Just as an aside, this will be the 4th Wal-Mart Supercenter in the country with a 5th one planned contingent upon aquiring necessary property. In a county of 325K, that's a supercenter every 65K people!! That's just way too many Wal-Mart Supercenters!!!

Could I at least have one Wal-Mart Supercenter replaced with a Super Target??? PLEASE!!

[PghUSA]

^^Speaking of marketing, I do enjoy the Target commercials much much more then anything Wal-Mart has as ads.

[FromCityToRural]

Well, Target was originally started as a competitor to Wal-Mart in the 60's, and is in the same market. When Wal-Mart went bargain-basement, Target went a little nicer. But they are still basically 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

So if it's any surprise that this is happening, think again.

[Tennesseestorm]

Still no Targets here in the city of Bristol, TN-VA, with a population of 45,000. The closest one is 22 miles away in Johnson City, which has a population of 56,000. However, there are rumors that a Target will be built in Bristol this year with all of the redevelopment. Why not- we are getting everything else - finally.

I always liked Target, but these days it seems they are freakin everywhere! I have been guilty of being a Wal-Mart basher, mostly because of what they did to my hometown. As I learned more on how they single-handedly control the wages of entire Continents, I grew to hate them more.

Now Target is ruining the landscape with enormous new stores surrounded by seas of asphalt and closing older stores and leaving their carcases littering the second ring suburbs of American cities. They are no better than Sam's evil empire.

[Tennesseestorm]

Ya know, I have noticed that when the sun is out bright that the lights in our newest Super Wal-Mart are very dim. I was thinking it was my eyes at first, then I got to thinking that perhaps it was some sort of an energy saving device. Seems its so! This Wal-Mart is "up to date, because it was built in late 2003.

The other Super Wal-Mart in our city however was built in 1993 and does not have the skylights. They are currently undergoing a major remodel, but it does not appear that skylights are on the dockets. They did however put in new lighting (long bulbs) to replace the round individual lamps. They are also moving things about the sales floors to make it look like our newest Wal-Mart- except they are keeping the McDonalds in the back, rather than the front located McDonalds like our new one has.

I didn't realize Wal-Mart was doing all of those things. Although, they just opened up a new store here in town and I didn't notice any of those features. Is this a "store of the future" concept, or are they actually making these improvements standard in all their new stores? Regardless of the green features of their buildings, however, their policy of locating stores on the furthest outskirts of town makes these features relatively meaningless. It's sorta like when someone bulldozes a forest and then plants a few trees around the parking lot to make up for it.

[PghUSA]

Well, Target was originally started as a competitor to Wal-Mart in the 60's, and is in the same market. When Wal-Mart went bargain-basement, Target went a little nicer. But they are still basically 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

So if it's any surprise that this is happening, think again.

Huh? Wal-Mart got started in the 40's and mushroomed in the late 70s/early 80s plus one is out of Minnesota and the other is in Arkansas.

Where do you get the info that Target was formed to take on Wal-Mart? It would be interesting read on that if you could find it.

[damus]

well... it was actually founded in the 1960s as one of them "small businesses".

[Snowguy716]

Wal-mart, Target, and K-mart were founded in 1962. The Dayton company launched Target as a discount store to sell cheaper goods and raise the profit of the company. Target also grew by leaps and bounds during the 70s and 80s.. but the growth has been much more steady than Wal-Mart and K-Mart

K-Mart ballooned in the 70s and has less stores today than it did in 1980. Wal-Mart is doing exactly what K-Mart did, except now. Target is staying the course with steady growth.

Of course we can argue semantics... Kresge's five and dime was started in the early 1900s, as was Dayton's... but we're talking about these companies in their present day form.

[PghUSA]

^^Interesting info, but Wal-Mart was founded in the 40's right?

Since we are listing all the mid-level retailers how about Giant Eagle and C.G. Murphy's from the Ohio-Pennsylvania-West Virginia region .

[FromCityToRural]

Huh? Wal-Mart got started in the 40's and mushroomed in the late 70s/early 80s plus one is out of Minnesota and the other is in Arkansas.

Where do you get the info that Target was formed to take on Wal-Mart? It would be interesting read on that if you could find it.

Sam Walton's very own book. I forget the name offhand, but it's very informative. You are quite right about Wal-Mart's beginnings, however.

[StevenRocks]

Target was not formed to take on Wal-Mart.

[FromCityToRural]

Like I said, it came straight from the horse's mouth, Sam Walton himself.

[StevenRocks]

No he didn't. It's not in his book, and I don't know where you got your information from.

[damus]

Like I said, it came straight from the horse's mouth, Sam Walton himself.

Say what you want about Walmart today, but they still get by on the principles left by "mr sam". He was a business genius in his honesty, frugalness, and simplicity. He was known to fly his private airplane and land in an empty lot. He would go in and ask the regular employees what was going right and wrong with the store. There was one story when the walmart was in a small town and there was some sort of civic event that "everyone" was going to and "Mr Sam" had nothing more than "oh...." to say.

He, like Bill Gates, was not afraid to "borrow" good ideas from competitors. His habit was to visit the competition in every town he visited, and got the idea to call his employees "associates" at a store in London. He felt it was more personal than "employee" and he made it a point to give the employees a "sense of ownership" in the company by offering the stock purchase plan.

Say what you want, but Wal-Mart didn't start off as the juggernaut it is today, and it got there through admirable means. The way it acts today, however, is not always so admirable.

[FromCityToRural]

Here's the problem with Wal-Mart as I see it.

Under the guidance of Sam Walton, the company almost always bought American-made products. It was one of his principals.

After he died, however, his family went gung-ho on the price lowering and junked a lot of the US-made stuff, opting for the much cheaper foreign-made products, usually from China. Thus, Americans such as myself have a moral dilemma...one that tugs at the pocketbook. A powerful motivator indeed. Yes, I shop at Wal-Mart...once in a while. But I try to avoid it most of the time.

Steven, I looked at Amazon.com. Unbeknownst to me, he has several books, perhaps we read different ones. I read "Made in America". It stated pretty clearly that Target was intended as a competitor to Wal-Mart, as was K-Mart. I remember it clearly because until I read it, I, like you, had also never thought of the two as competitors.

[StevenRocks]

Steven, I looked at Amazon.com. Unbeknownst to me, he has several books, perhaps we read different ones. I read "Made in America". It stated pretty clearly that Target was intended as a competitor to Wal-Mart, as was K-Mart. I remember it clearly because until I read it, I, like you, had also never thought of the two as competitors.

The three stores were started around the same time and did many of the same things, but I still contend they didn't start out as direct competitors. They didn't even have anything close to market overlap until the mid '70s.

[PghUSA]

Anyone have and data to back this up? I have never heard of Target being the "answer" to Wal-Mart at its origin.

[damus]

Anyone have and data to back this up? I have never heard of Target being the "answer" to Wal-Mart at its origin.

It seems pretty far fetched to me considering one is from Minnesota and the other from Arkansas. Target is the "answer to Walmart" today, though. 15 years ago I had never heard of either (keep in mind I was only 7) and neither chain had a presence at all up here. I don't know when Target and Wal-Mart's territory first interlapped, but it definately wasn't in the 1960s...

[runawayjim]

It seems pretty far fetched to me considering one is from Minnesota and the other from Arkansas. Target is the "answer to Walmart" today, though. 15 years ago I had never heard of either (keep in mind I was only 7) and neither chain had a presence at all up here. I don't know when Target and Wal-Mart's territory first interlapped, but it definately wasn't in the 1960s...

walmart wasn't heard of in the northeast (at least not CT) until the mid-late 90's. in fact, we didn't need walmart. we had 3 regional chain stores which were basically mini-walmarts... caldor, bradlees, ames. we also had Kmart. then walmart moved in during the late 90's and "shockingly" all 3 of the regional chains filed bankruptcy and then closed down for good. Kmart closed a ton of their stores in the state as walmart moved into and ruined every small town that would allow them. in my hometown, they moved to this abandoned office park area. but instead of building in the lots that were already there, but overgrown and tearing down the buildings that were basically falling apart and boarded up, they tore town trees and paved over grass to build their new store and enormous parking lot. target seems to more carefully choose where they go. currently, the closest target to my hometown is about 15-20 min away in north haven (hometown is branford). yet there's another walmart 10 min away in guilford (they took over an old bradlees). in east haven by the I-95 construction, there are some old stores, one was a bradlees. i'm praying target moves there.

i had never even heard of target until about 5 years after walmart moved in. and then there was only 1 or 2 in the state. i had never been to a target until i moved to RI because there weren't any in the new haven area when i moved. the one in north haven has only been there for about a year or so.

[damus]

walmart wasn't heard of in the northeast (at least not CT) until the mid-late 90's. in fact, we didn't need walmart. we had 3 regional chain stores which were basically mini-walmarts... caldor, bradlees, ames. we also had Kmart. then walmart moved in during the late 90's and "shockingly" all 3 of the regional chains filed bankruptcy and then closed down for good.

We never had, and still don't have a Kmart in the Norwich/New London area. I don't know how much of the "walmart effect" took down the regional chains. For example, in the 1980s when Zaire's closed down Ames opened up a store in the old Zaires in Norwich.... ONE MILE away from another Ames. I don't think they were managed right.

I do remember when Caldor was a busy store, and it was before the first Walmart came to the Norwich area in the early 1990s.. Right now there is no alternative for Walmart around here unless you're willing to drive 20 miles to the nearest Target in Waterford. The Walmart in Lisbon is pretty well put together and clean... but the one in Norwich is more of one of those dumpy Walmarts you have talked about.

One thing I really don't like about the national chains is the homoginization of the culture. For example, the things I really like about the regional grocery chains is that some of them carry butternut squash, specialty meats like ground bison, and kielbasa from Martin Rosel's in New Britain all year; plus most of them carry good (not too wet) and cheap farmer's cheese on holidays so I can make my grandparents' pirogies. Walmart's grocery section is just the simple stuff.

[runawayjim]

We never had, and still don't have a Kmart in the Norwich/New London area. I don't know how much of the "walmart effect" took down the regional chains. For example, in the 1980s when Zaire's closed down Ames opened up a store in the old Zaires in Norwich.... ONE MILE away from another Ames. I don't think they were managed right.

I do remember when Caldor was a busy store, and it was before the first Walmart came to the Norwich area in the early 1990s.. Right now there is no alternative for Walmart around here unless you're willing to drive 20 miles to the nearest Target in Waterford. The Walmart in Lisbon is pretty well put together and clean... but the one in Norwich is more of one of those dumpy Walmarts you have talked about.

One thing I really don't like about the national chains is the homoginization of the culture. For example, the things I really like about the regional grocery chains is that some of them carry butternut squash, specialty meats like ground bison, and kielbasa from Martin Rosel's in New Britain all year; plus most of them carry good (not too wet) and cheap farmer's cheese on holidays so I can make my grandparents' pirogies. Walmart's grocery section is just the simple stuff.

caldor sold a lot of the same brands that target now sells. it's not the same cheap junk that walmart sells. people don't realize that the models of the products that walmart sells are not the same as what you get at other chains... they might be the same brands, but the stuff lacks the quality in the name of "low" prices. target is not this way. target just isn't as all-inclusive as walmart, which is the reason many people still go to walmart. walmart has a real hardware section, real auto section, real sport section, real garden section, real craft section, i think you get the point... caldor had all that, as did ames (come to think of it, bradlees was more like target in this sense). target has less of that kind of stuff, but better home goods and clothing.

regional grocery chains are nice... i like getting the local milk. we have something called rhody fresh milk, which comes from a few different rhode island farms. i've seen a connecticut brand like that too. while i do realize that guida's and hood come from local farmers, they're larger companies. i like supporting the little guy (and these local brands of milk taste better to me).

[damus]

regional grocery chains are nice... i like getting the local milk. we have something called rhody fresh milk, which comes from a few different rhode island farms. i've seen a connecticut brand like that too. while i do realize that guida's and hood come from local farmers, they're larger companies. i like supporting the little guy (and these local brands of milk taste better to me).

you should try unpasteurized "raw" milk, some farms sell it to the public. I grew up on it and the taste is unlike anything you'll get in the store. Even though my great uncle's farm is about 5 minutes away by foot, I still just get the gas station gallons for myself out of convenience (so I don't have to pour my own milk, clean the bottles for reuse, separate the cream, etc).

[runawayjim]

you should try unpasteurized "raw" milk, some farms sell it to the public. I grew up on it and the taste is unlike anything you'll get in the store. Even though my great uncle's farm is about 5 minutes away by foot, I still just get the gas station gallons for myself out of convenience (so I don't have to pour my own milk, clean the bottles for reuse, separate the cream, etc).

i think i'll pass on the raw milk... i like my 1%.

[PCGrad02]

We never had, and still don't have a Kmart in the Norwich/New London area. I don't know how much of the "walmart effect" took down the regional chains. For example, in the 1980s when Zaire's closed down Ames opened up a store in the old Zaires in Norwich.... ONE MILE away from another Ames. I don't think they were managed right.

I do remember when Caldor was a busy store, and it was before the first Walmart came to the Norwich area in the early 1990s.. Right now there is no alternative for Walmart around here unless you're willing to drive 20 miles to the nearest Target in Waterford. The Walmart in Lisbon is pretty well put together and clean... but the one in Norwich is more of one of those dumpy Walmarts you have talked about.

One thing I really don't like about the national chains is the homoginization of the culture. For example, the things I really like about the regional grocery chains is that some of them carry butternut squash, specialty meats like ground bison, and kielbasa from Martin Rosel's in New Britain all year; plus most of them carry good (not too wet) and cheap farmer's cheese on holidays so I can make my grandparents' pirogies. Walmart's grocery section is just the simple stuff.

Actually, when Zayre's closed down @ Marcus Plaza it became the new Price Rite, the old Price Rite was where TJMaxx is located now. The name was later changed to Shop Rite after a legal dispute was settled. You may also remember the old Big-Y on Otrabando Ave in Norwich, it was not linked to the Big-Y chain and closed in the mid-90s when the new store opened up next to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart came to Norwich in 1994, signaling the beginning of the end for local retail in the city. Caldor remained open almost until the end of the decade, now replaced by Bob's Discount Furniture, perhaps the most annoying ads in history. The Super Wal-Mart in Lisbon is my idea of a 24/7 nightmare, I would rather pay $4 more for something than have to set foot in there. The Wal-Mart in Norwich has slowly declined into your typical urban dumpy Wally World, it is depressing just to set foot in there. The entire Westside of Norwich lost all of its character in the era of Urban Renewal.