A VISION FOR PROVIDENCE

[Citydweller]

It was very hard to see the impact of what they were suggesting (was it Buff Chase who spoke and brought that up?). 

No, that was Buff Chase impersonator.  Buff left at the beginning of the Q and A.  The guy kind of looked like him.

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- I'm the Buff Chace impersonator. My name is Bill Dennis - I am a New Urbanist planner and architect who has recently moved back east - to Providence! I have known Buff for quite awhile (worked on Mashpee Commons and the first Downcity Charrette - as well as one day on the most recent one) and I led Stefanos Polyzoides' planning efforts from New Mexico (we were neck and neck with Sasaki to do the New Cities project - a shame, because we do extensive public involvement and also believe that the specific quality of architectural design matters). Anyway, I have returned to working on my own as an architect and planner, as well as a consultant around the country, but I hope to get much more involved in Providence and New England, as this is a very special place that could be ruined.

Sasaki's plan is merely ok - it needs lots of refinement and specifics (including lots of view from ground level, which is where most people happen to walk) but what is needed more is are involved, authentic public charrettes on both the infrastructure of Providence 2020 (roads, transit, green networks, etc) and the specific design of each neighborhood and district in conjunction with a true form-based code.

Anyway, that's just one guy's opinion....

[Frankie811]

  - I'm the Buff Chace impersonator. My name is Bill Dennis - I am a  New Urbanist planner and architect who has recently moved back east - to Providence! I have known Buff for quite awhile (worked on Mashpee Commons and the first Downcity Charrette - as well as one day on the most recent one) and I led Stefanos Polyzoides' planning efforts from New Mexico (we were neck and neck with Sasaki to do the New Cities project - a shame, because we do extensive public involvement and also believe that the specific quality of architectural design matters). Anyway, I have returned to working on my own as an architect and planner, as well as a consultant around the country, but I hope to get much more involved in Providence and New England, as this is a very special place that could be ruined.

Sasaki's plan is merely ok - it needs lots of refinement and specifics (including lots of view from ground level, which is where most people happen to walk) but what is needed more  is are involved, authentic public charrettes on both the infrastructure of Providence 2020 (roads, transit, green networks, etc) and the specific design of each neighborhood and district in conjunction with a true form-based code.

Anyway, that's just one guy's opinion....

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Well, their final report isn't due out untill sometime this summer, so stay tuned.

[Cotuit]

(including lots of view from ground level, which is where most people happen to walk)

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Welcome Bill. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your views on this and other matters. I grew up on the Cape (Cotuit, right down the road from Mashpee Commons) and watched Mashpee Commons transform. I know it's half done, there's a lot of good things to say about it, but a good deal of things that aren't working, yet (I hope, they'll work someday...).

On the Sasaki plan, 'merely OK,' seems to be the best review it's gotten here yet, (I'm still waiting for the city's promised website on it all). I've been meaning to bring this thread back to life and try to get the conversation going in a positive direction, so what do you think is OK about it?

[Garris]

Sasaki's plan is merely ok - it needs lots of refinement and specifics (including lots of view from ground level, which is where most people happen to walk) but what is needed more  is are involved, authentic public charrettes on both the infrastructure of Providence 2020 (roads, transit, green networks, etc) and the specific design of each neighborhood and district in conjunction with a true form-based code.

Anyway, that's just one guy's opinion....

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Welcome to UP-Providence! And thanks for giving us your opinion of the Sasaki plan. I think your professional opinion mirrored that of us amateur enthusiasts who were there as well. I agree a lot more information and public feedback will be required than just those two days of meetings.

Also, for us enthusiasts, could you describe what a form-based code is?

- Garris

Garris Photography

[Cotuit]

ProJo editorial on Providence 2020. In the editorial, they make a stong endoresment for the Ship Street Canal concept.

[Cotuit]

Some drawings kinematix recently dug up on the Ship Street Canal:

I wasn't able to make any of those meetings earlier this month regarding design plans for Providence but I was able to get my hands on a booklet that may overlap or be the same as the discussed propositions for the 195 land. I've only scanned these 4 pages but if there's interest I'll put up the rest.

Enjoy and I hope I've put these pics up the right way.

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Some more renderings from AIA/Rhode Island.

[Garris]

Well, I got worried tonight about Providence's future at a dinner I attended... I'm still struck by how many people who live in this region, and many in Providence itself, just don't seem to be OK with the idea of Providence being a city. Talk turned to all the development downtown and near everyone was pessimistic... Not about the specific developments, mind you, but the entire idea of, "Well, why would anyone want to live downtown?" Scoffing at the idea of tall/taller buildings, more mass transit, etc, etc... As one person put it, "I'm just a car person, you know? When are they going to do more stuff downtown for people like me?" I kid you not...

Very disturbing stuff. We have to find a way to let our voices be heard to the Prov 2020 folks, maybe when the website comes online...

I was reading an article in The Atlantic Monthly about someone from France looking at the US through his eyes, and he went to Buffalo and was shocked that people could just let a city die, an event that would be unthinkable to Europeans. He asks the question of whether Americans just don't like cities and, if so, when and how this happened?

I wonder too... Do you think people in great cities like Chicago or SF would be poo-pooing the idea of taller buildings in their downtown core? Would they want to plant trees along the highway or nix a potential blockbuster neighborhood near a highway overpass to put an ampitheater?

It may be late at night, but I'm wondering if Providence's and the metro's own residents could be the factor that prevents Providence from becoming a great city... That's its residents don't want it to be one...

Time to go to sleep... Things will be better in the morning...

- Garris

[Recchia]

I've encountered that attitude many times in Providence. People would rather see a supermarket and a Walmart built in their neighborhood than any kind of practical, needed development in a downtown.

And as far as cars go, if it won't help their driving then people don't wanna hear it. I don't think somepeople even realize that there are actually other ways to get around OTHER than a car. For example, one of my neighbors in my parents godawful subdivision the other day asked why he saw me walking by every morning at 7am, and when I told him I was walking to the bus stop he gave me this astonished look, like WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU EVER TAKE A BUS??? He then asked me what happened to my car, and I said nothing, I would just rather take the bus cause its cheaper and almost as convenient. Another person asked me if I got my license suspended--this is the mentality of people now. Nobody considers any other options other than their cars, and these same people scoff at development downtown because they think the added people will add to traffic, and worsen their commute even more.

[Cotuit]

I was walking through the mall on Saturday, along the passageway that over looks the GTECH site. There is an information kiosk in that passageway now, and a woman stopped to ask what the building was. The information person told her it was GTECHs new headquarters and the woman then asked what happened to Waterplace Park (as if the GTECH site was Waterplace Park). The information woman assured her that the park was still there behind the building.

So, this woman obviously spends vast amounts of time emjoying Waterplace Park. I mean not knowing where the damn thing was, and assuming that a dirt lot in the shadow of the mall was it, that proves how much time she spends there. Also, the fact that GTECH has been under construction since December and she's just noticing it 6 months later, proves how much quality time she spends in the park.

There was also an article in The Agenda this month (free monthly arts paper, available all over town) about the fencing around Parcel 2. The author refers to Parcel 2 as "the remaining big open space right in Waterplace Park." As if it was a field of flowers where children laugh and skip, and bunnies hop about. She goes on to speak about how difficult it was to navigate a way around the closure. I don't know what her problem is exactly, at one end of the closure you go up the stairs and use the Exchange Street Bridge to cross the river, at the other you do the same with Waterplace Bridge, for someone who claimed earlier in the article to frequent the park a lot, she sure has trouble navigating it.

So the article boils down to the author not being aware that a project was going to happen here. "...maybe there was an announcement about the new building being put up. Maybe there were meetings and deliberations, and agreements. And maybe the public was 'notified' in the back pages of the daily paper -but was the community made aware?" Um let's see, yes there have been years of meetings, deliberations, and agreements, the Capital Center Design Review Committee announces all their meetings, the public is welcome to attend if they are so concerned about the future of Waterplace. There were articles on the front page of the daily paper if I remember correctly, as well as stories on local television stations. I don't know if this writer expects all 180,000 people in the city to have a personal visit from the Planning Department to make sure everyone feels OK about potential developments or what.

The whole tone of the article was that the cultural fabric of Waterplace had been torn by this mysterious fence, and we'd all be better off with the empty lot that was there.

[Recchia]

It's always the people who it would affect the least that complain the most. Not that BUILDINGS in a CITY would adversely affect anyone anyway.

[CtownMikey]

maybe WE should hold meeting to change these idiots' point of view

[Liamlunchtray]

I have found the same thing with negative opionions of development. It seems like especially from the lefty/artsy type people I tend to hang around with. They sometimes have a hard time seperating good development from bad development. Building a 30 story tower on a vacant lot downtown = generally good thing. Tearing down an amazing old mill complex to build a BestBuy = bad thing I find myself having to explain the positives of some of these big condo towers. I may not be a fan of million dollar condos, but I am a huge fan of dramatic increases in tax revenue. I am also a huge fan of anything that breathes life into downtown and allows other smaller businessed to thrive.

Liam

[Recchia]

It's almost as though people think this latest round of projects is going to hurt the renaissance of the city. People think Waterplace will be destroyed by new development, when really it will be drastically helped. Instead of worrying about so called "open space" downtown (which is funny, bc none of the developing areas are real parks) people should worry more about the open space being gobbled up day by day by their subdivisions and Home Depot's out on the fringes.

[Mij]

Some drawings kinematix recently dug up on the Ship Street Canal:

Some more renderings from AIA/Rhode Island.

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After reading this, my first thought was "hmmm, could lightening strike twice?" It seems that the ship street canal would be looked at as a Water Place Park part 2. Almost making it passe'. But then i thought again, if we can do the way we have with moving the highnway, the rivers, and reclaiming our heritage as a water front city then why couldnt this be done? Why shouldnt this be done?

And i would love to see the rest of this booklet...

[Whynotme]

I recently skimmed through the Market Analysis for the Jewelry District Concept Plan from 1999 (?), and it seems that it focussed on branding the area as a design based commercial/office district. How are these plans coming along?

The design for the Ship street canal seems to be a great way to maximize waterfront space. The 650 apartment units might be ambitious. That's a fair amount to absorb, though it could be a staged development. Anyway, a feasible high-end, mixed use apartment project is worth its weight in gold to institutional investors these days. This type of apartment construction has been largely abandoned for condos thanks to interest rates.

philantroplan

[Recchia]

We should organize as a non-profit/lobbying group to change people's opinions of downcity developments and to promote an "urban Providence". We could be "CUP" Citizens for an Urban Providence, or somethin like that...

[Frankie811]

We should organize as a non-profit/lobbying group to change people's opinions of downcity developments and to promote an "urban Providence". We could be "CUP"  Citizens for an Urban Providence, or somethin like that...

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Hmmmmmmm That's the purpose of the Providence Chamber of Commerce.

[EPBOY]

We should organize as a non-profit/lobbying group to change people's opinions of downcity developments and to promote an "urban Providence". We could be "CUP"  Citizens for an Urban Providence, or somethin like that...

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My Nomination for the 1st annual "CUP of SHAME"tm award goes to...... <drum roll please>

Joe Sr & Joe Jr of PAOLINO PROPERITES destroyers of history, for their consistant & shameless real estate abuse.

[CtownMikey]

did you know that paolino has kids?

[Mij]

My Nomination for the 1st annual "CUP of SHAME"tm  award goes to......  <drum roll please>

Joe Sr & Joe Jr of PAOLINO PROPERITES  destroyers of history,  for their consistant & shameless real estate abuse.

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Please do tell, What have they destroyed... A gas station? You've got to be kidding me. We live in a capitalistic country. Get over it.

[EPBOY]

Please do tell, What have they destroyed... A gas station? You've got to be kidding me. We live in a capitalistic country. Get over it.

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What have they destroyed?? Really?? Only a 105 year old building that could probably have stood another 100 years. I'm talking about the Trolley Barn, and yes I'm still PO'ed about it. With some vision and investment, the possibilities were endless. But... I guess it's just so much more cost effective to rip it down. That would be the pure capitalistic mindset.

Instead of asking what they destroyed, lets ask what they have built. They claim to be devolopers, right? So what kind of forward thinking designs have they contributed? Suburban Shopping Centers and Apartment complexes. Oh that's impressive. This man used to be the MAYOR, where's his civic pride? His downtown properties lanquished in decay for DECADES. Even now, instead of improving them he sells them off for others to revitalize (oh what a visionary). That is, when he's not clearing them for parking spaces. Speaking of which....

Who the f*ck else showcases "Uban Parking" as a business enterprise on their website.

Yea, we live in a capitalistic country. Thank you for stating the obvious. So what, if I don't OWN the property I should have no opinion regarding its use or destruction? Because I can't afford to revitialize the property myself, I should keep my opinions to myself?? I thougth the purpose of this board was to express our ideas regarding Urban Issues in a thought provoking and free discourse. Get over it? I don't think so.

No... we live in a capitalist DEMOCRACY.

[CtownMikey]

i live 3 seconds away from it.. in the stadium section of cranston.. NOTHING good can be built in its place.. the area is soo ugly

[EPBOY]

i live 3 seconds away from it.. in the stadium section of cranston.. NOTHING good can be built in its place.. the area is soo ugly

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I lived a couple of streets over from it for about a year. On Franklin off of Cranston Street.

[Frankie811]

i live 3 seconds away from it.. in the stadium section of cranston.. NOTHING good can be built in its place.. the area is soo ugly

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Across the street is where the new Cranston Police station is going, so I think we can look forward to some new development in the area. In fact Paolino tried to get the City of Cranston to buy the land where the trolly barn is and erect the new building there. Look for new office buildings, retail or maybe even a hotel. Say what you will about Paolino, but the whole area is better off because of him. He replaced the old Narragansett Brewery area with retail and a K. Gibbs school. I'm sure the area residents are pleased.

[Mij]

What have they destroyed??  Really??    Only a 105 year old building that could probably have stood another 100 years. I'm talking about the Trolley Barn, and yes I'm still PO'ed about it.  With some vision and investment, the possibilities were endless.  But... I guess it's just so much more cost effective to rip it down.  That would be the pure capitalistic mindset.

Instead of asking what they destroyed, lets ask what they have built.  They claim to be devolopers, right?  So what kind of forward thinking designs have they contributed?  Suburban Shopping Centers and Apartment complexes.  Oh that's impressive.  This man used to be the MAYOR, where's his civic pride?  His downtown properties lanquished in decay for DECADES.  Even now, instead of improving them he sells them off for others to revitalize (oh what a visionary).  That is, when he's not clearing them for parking spaces.  Speaking of which....

Who the f*ck else showcases  "Uban Parking" as a business enterprise on their website. 

Yea, we live in a  capitalistic country.  Thank you for stating the obvious.  So what, if I don't OWN the property I should have no opinion regarding its use or destruction?  Because I can't afford to revitialize the property myself, I should keep my opinions to myself??  I thougth the purpose of this board was to express our ideas regarding Urban Issues in a thought provoking and free discourse.  Get over it?  I don't think so.

No... we live in a capitalist DEMOCRACY.

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I