Plasticman
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Posts posted by Plasticman
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wow, that is a chunk of money. Did your friend say how long it would have taken to estimate?
I agree. A scaled down version may be the only way he gets this up and running. A 700 ft tower obviously will not have quite the impact on the skyline like the 1000 footer. However, it will still easily be the tallest even at 700. Not only that, it will take much less time to build. If the project is scaled down, how many of those sold will try to get out of their contract because of it? Then again, how many will buy because of a shorter time table? Like some on this board, we would rather see a smaller version than nothing at all. This building is too nice not to get completed.
I highly doubt he will scale the tower back and start over. The only way that could happen is if there is a clause in the contracts allowing it. And if he does somehow manage to scale it back, I would doubt it to be down to 700' because by the time you knock off the first 120' for the hotel and even if you reduce the spire to 100' (which would look awful), that wouldn't leave but about 480' worth of condos maximum and is hardly worth the effort. And then it would no longer be unique outside Tennessee. The whole purpose in this tower is to be a groundbreaking move of national proportions. If he is able to scale back I could forsee it being more like 850' - 900' as the original "redesign" had it at. An 850' tower is still a monster and something any city would love.
But all the speculation about scaling back isn't even being mentioned in any reports via paper or electronic media that I've found. I still believe he is hedging his bets on the very likely event that once the ground starts moving and he can actually move the project to "under construction" status, the sales will escalate exponentially and the current 1,030' tower will be just fine. Just remember we are only talking 400 units (be they high-priced on the upper floors or not). That really isn't a drop in the bucket for a city that has barely begun to tap into the obvious demand for DT living accmodations.
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I flew in over Atlanta a month ago on Delta and we circled right over downtown and directly over the 1,000+ foot Bank of America plus the other buildings, most of which are well over 700 and 800 feet. We along with several other aircraft circled the downtown area and were probably no more than 3,000-4,000 feet up.
This FAA thing is nothing.
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I agree. Especially with the incompetent statment. That is 100% fact and has been proven time and time again. LOL!! I think they mentioned that two studies were done to see what the impact of a tower like this on the flight paths would be here in Nashville. That could be the reason for the long delay on the FAA's part who knows. Then again, it could be some stupid pencil pushers just having too much time on their hands. Remember, they can't stop it from being built at the original height, they can only "recommend" that it be shortened. I can tell you that they didn't "ok" it from day one. I have never heard of them doing that in the history of the agency.
Me personally, I don't think anything major will happen. But I do think he takes a PR hit from the media, a hit from the insurance companies, and a chance to out himself if he infact can't see a 1,000 foot Siggy getting built soon. Perhaps it is an out and he is keeping his rapport clean. Just a thought here guys because lets face it, sales are not what he thought they would be. And he can't just leave the thing on the market forever. Crap or get off the pot you know.
The elephant in the corner is still just how many hard sales does he have? Do you have information that you can share, information that you can't share, or are you as in the dark as we all are? As much as I like this project and as much as I want to see it climb out of the ground I am realistic enough to believe it is about a 50/50 shot right now. I understand that Atlanta is almost four times the size of Nashville but we have about 10 times as many buildings going up and we just don't seem to have lagging, nagging problems like this project seems to have. They get announced, they get approved, cranes get planted, and boom another highrise goes up. I'm puzzled why Nashville which in itself has an impressive population of around 1-1/2 million can't seem to get it going on this one project.
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You have to have an understanding of aviation and how it relates to Nashville before you start questioning the whole "flight paths" thing though. The airport is well over 50 years old easily and up until the last ten or so years, there hasn't been any towers tall enough to matter here. As far as I see it, the airport was there first and the safety of the residents of Nashville and those on the airplanes is first and foremost period, end of discussion. Both the MNAA and the Federal Government would 100% agree with me here.
It takes a lot of "space" to turn an aircraft. Their not like your lawn mower and turn on a dime. They take a while to turn, to climb, and to get up to certain alititudes. It's the cities responsibility, the FAA's, and the local Airport Authorities job to ensure that all precations are taken and that public safety is first. Plus, it doesn't take an idiot to look at the configuration of runway 13 and it's relation to downtown. It's not about "intelligence" as you so easily put it. It's about common sense here and an understanding of aviation and airplanes and how they interact with the Nashville enviroment. Not to mention an understanding that other cities are worse off than us and this is not the first time the FAA has recommended shortening a proposed building in the USA. Look at Chicago Midway Airport, JFK, Miami, the list goes on and on here about flight paths and positioning of runways. What is happening here is HARDLY anything special.
I understand what you are saying but this is not the end of any discussion. Signature Tower's height has been public now for a year and a half and the FAA hasn't been a stranger to this project from the time it was announced but in fact has been heavily involved. That said, they can't come in this late in the game well after he has a significant number of signed contracts and then cry "foul" and want him to shorten the height at least not without assuming some liablity. The fact is either the FAA knew this from day one and okayed it or they couldn't plant a birthday party and are incompetant with no gray area in between. The time to raise such issues as this was within a reasonable time of the announced height and that ship has loooong since sailed.
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I believe the FAA has raised the same issue about other towers in other cities that ended up getting built. It's probably not as much an issue as the paper is trying to make it out to be.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. If they were suggesting that he tweek it down to 900 or 800 feet that would make much more sense than suggesting once shorter than Batman Building, especially since it is in the heart of downtown. I figure Tony will file that one in the "ignore" folder.
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^ It says right there on the link you provided.
Structural Engineering
Parking Consulting
Yes but I didn't know how long they had been involved (if they are a new addition or not). With Turner construction out of the picture I didn't know if this group were paired up with a new construction company or not.
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Does anyone know anything about the "Walter P. Moore" organization and its role in Signature? Apparently they have something to do with the current design.
http://www.walterpmoore.com/projects/tallB...natureTower.php
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i just though i would post this for anyone interested.
This is the Predators intro video which includes the Siggy in a major way...
That's a cool video clip but I'm not sure if it is wise to get Signature Tower so placed in everyone's mind that they almost believe it is already a part of the skyline (or maybe that is exactly what TG hopes for?).
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Here's another picture from a recent ad:
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It's not fire or a background. the model is sitting in front of the flooring material that will be used in the lobby. That is what you see on the wall and it is backlit.
Wow, it looks like a scene from Independence Day when the aliens blew up NY and LA.
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That is good news. Do you have any information on how many actual contracts he has?
There are several Signature Tower listings on realtracs.com. Some of the listings erroneously advertise the project as "Signature Towers" and include a photo advertised as the view from Sig, when it's actually the view from Encore. For those listings, the agent given is with The Lipman Group Sotheby's International Realty.Also, it looks like they have a new building model with the revised spire in the sales center.
Wow! That looks incredible. I wonder why the fire background?
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Oh, if only he had stuck with the original 55-floor design! This thing might be rising now...I would have even settled for the old design (pre spire) if it was just U/C right now!!!
The 55 floor design was all condo with no hotel. The hotel deal can only enhance the appeal of the tower by increasing the height and thus the uniqueness.
As stated he will have to get a contractor for sure but he also would benefit to find a financier willing to loan the money on fewer than 50% pre-sales under the assumption that once it begins to rise the sale will dramatically escalate. Or he needs someone with capital willing to take the risk. Not likely but who knows. The more buyers he has, the more he will get.
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New 30 second commercial on the signature website. Click this link. Also new pics on the gallery.
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In that article, Tony says more than once that this will be Nashville's first true skyscraper to be built since the L&C. What in they world is he talking about?
When Nashville's first skyscraper was built, the L & C tower in 1957 it stood 409 feet tall and about 30 stories. Not impressive at all by today's standards but at the time it was the tallest building in the southeast so in perspective it was a real skyscraper. Standing all alone and significantly taller than anything else in the city, it was indeed impressive and provided a dramatic view from the observatory.
Since that time Nashville has thrown up a dozen or so other buidings between 300-500 feet tall including Bellsouth which is "legally" 617' but in reality owes 1/4 of the height to the bat ears. Bellsouth raise the bar just a bit but still only added to the flat, linear skyline that exists. That's why for me the Pinnacle (again a boring 435' tall and another "me too") is a nice and welcome addition to any skyline but really isn't anything to do cartwheels about and only makes the Nashville skyline appear even more flat and more linear.
Then along comes the Signature project which mimics the same effect that L & C Tower had. It is dramatically taller than anything else in the city and provides an even more dramatic view than its groundbreaking predecessor.
So when the developer is speaking about this being the first "true" skyscraper, he is only speaking in relation to its impact and in relation to what would be considered a skyscraper today.
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Well from William's article, we do know he has 100 hard sales contracts. He is halfway to his self-imposed benchmark. That part is some good news because even with the high mark of 142 reservations we all wondered how many were actual sales. Now (if his numbers are true) we know he has 100.
Here is the link; http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2007/8/3...eral_contractor
I still believe he cannot scale this building back without voiding the contracts he has. In essence if he goes back to 55 stories and 850' or even shorter it will be for all intents and purposes a different building thus the pricing and units will all change.
So IMO it will be all or nothing unless he has a stipulation in the contracts allowing significant design changes without voiding the contracts.
If per the article in October he still has made no progress then even I, an almost ridiculous booster, will lose a lot of faith. If, on the other hand, he has landed a new contractor and sales are going forward (even if not 200) then I would say TG's perseverance will pay off.
It's a wait and see game now.
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fox news reported tonight that tony has lost his contractor but that he says it will still be built.
I entered "Signature Tower Nashville" via Google News plus went to Fox News website and couldn't pull anything up about that from either place. Was it a local Fox affilliate or network? Could you provide a link to the news report?
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After going to the Signature website today, the "residences" section which normally shows how many and which units are reserved now doesn't show that. As you click on each division of the tower you will find they've hidden the reserved info and replaced it with descriptions of the units in that area of the tower.
Not sure why that is unless either Tony is tired of everyone trying to read between the lines based on his reserved numbers or he is preparing to update the numbers or change something about them. I would venture the latter and that this is likely temporary.
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I did notice they cite an opening of 2010 for the tower. Is this time consistant with the time that has been assumed in this thread? That would suggest that we may not see a ground breaking until 2008. (+/- 12 months)
I believe 2009 was the early original date but 2010 has been the projected completion date for several months.
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Here's a new article about the Kimpton Design. While articles like this obiously don't have anything to do with financing it does bode well that the project is far from dead or even in danger.
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as if trying to be saved while walking through campus wasn't enough, now i'd have to put up with that on a roller coaster? they seriously need to change this from being an amusement park and put it into a new category. oh i dunno, abusement park anybody?
As a Christian myself, I don't see a problem with the "idea" of a theme park dedicated to presenting the Gospel message as long as it doesn't cheapen the message and that it stays true to the Bible.
As far as "abusement", what do you mean? I doubt that anyone is holding a gun to any patron's head. If by abusement you mean the likelihood that it will abuse God's word, then that is an unknown at this point. In order to be successful it will depend on what any theme park does....willing customers. How presenting the Message of Salvation to willing patrons can be alligned with "abuse" is absurd. I will admit I'd have to see it to really give an opinion on that particular park.
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does any of that matter if he can't sell the units or get financig ? i have been lurking at up for over a year and with this one it seems like there is always a diversion offered from the tough questions. if you read the papers or watch news credit is drying up like enever before. why would this project be the exception because it is large and complicated ? i think not.
Regardless of the credit slowdown, in the end it is all about the lender's feelings about whether this is too risky to back up the project. Additionally (correct me if I'm wrong) it would seem it is the companies who delve into sub-prime mortgages that are having the biggest problems right now. While the impact reverberates across the lending market as a whole, this type of project I wouldn't think would ever be assigned to such a low end backer. Even if TG doesn't make the self-imposed number of units, that may not mean he can't get financing because DT condos in this city are a relatively new idea and unlike many cities, it is unclear if at this early stage in the condo game, Nashville could be considered even close to saturated. If financing does occur and the project breaks ground with only 140 or so units sold, you can bet it is because the financiers are certain that enough people in the area will snatch up these units after it begins to rise.
Plus the majority of units are not necessarily for the rich. At 400,000-500,000 dollars, they are well out of my price range but interested parties would not have to be affluent to afford one.
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I talked to a source at Metro Codes. They said the project was really going to happen. Siggy is jumping through the hoops.
Unless they have financing locked down already by some other method than secured sales, they'd better get on the ball with the reservations. For the last week or so the number of units on reserves has fluctuated up and down in the 130s and holding at 138 yesterday. I'm hoping he has a big chunk of sales pending that he is holding back for release on the website at once (although I can't see any benefit to that). One day a few weeks back he went from 98 to 124 in one day.
I talked to a source at Metro Codes. They said the project was really going to happen. Siggy is jumping through the hoops.Also, what hoops has Signature jumped through? I figured they would manage to clear the code hurdles. Doe Metro Codes have concrete information of a groundbreaking date or that the project's design is ready to roll with no reductions or redesigns?
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dressing
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charger
Signature Tower
in Nashville
Posted
This is all more of my opinion but I would venture all or nothing, particularly on the upper floors. Currently the penthouses top out at around 850' in the air or so. This makes them some of the highest elevated penthouse at least in the nation. The price the buyers are paying is no doubt largelyl based on the uniqueness aspect of it and the breathtaking and totally unobstructed view you can have in all directions. Any condo sitting 700' or above is likely under no threat of being obstructed anywhere on the horizon. Change the design by scaling back and the building now becomes a totally different building with the condo heights now at or below current buildings, the views are now potentially obstructed and the uniqueness is off the radar. From that the values drop exponentially.
All or nothing IMO