eastbank

First, Amtrak is a Federal entity, and the City cannot force Amtrak (an economically failing entity) to action. The petition drive has already ended successfully and there will be 2 votes: whether city money may be spent at all on any LR station, and also whether such station should be located in the CBD. The simplified argument against LR: City Taxpayer Costs, Commuter Parking Needs, & Impact on Central Park. Polling data indicates the vast majority of WP residents will NOT use the system to commute (less than 2%). It will mainly serve commuters in outlying suburbs. To build such a station, property taxes for ALL WP residents will increase, forever. Constructing a LR station on the CSX tracks will also pave over a portion of our prized park. Commuters seeking to enter the LR system in WPK will add traffic and consume parking spaces in the retail district without contributing to the retail economy. The increased parking will also destroy greenspace. And the polling data indicates that those that shop on the Avenue overwhelmingly will still arrive by private car, and will not take public transport to shop at the boutiques. We don't even have answers to many imporant questions. There is not even any indication that LR will run on the weekends -- during WPK's busiest visitor days. There is little to no info available about the noise impact on the park and traffic impact of train traffic. Would other areas of Winter Park, like WP Village, be more suitable for a rail stop? How will our police department be impacted? What additional security is necessary? What ancillary costs will residents have to fund? Is the purpose of a Commuter Rail Stop in Winter Park for tourism or is it for "commuting residents to the urban core?" There needs to be a lot of discussion and planning before WP simply jumps aboard without knowing the costs/impacts. Its a nice idea, but we need to plan to deal with the reality, not the fairytale.

Lots of people had a "hunch" that Marchman would be easily re-elected and that the Carlyle would already have been built. So much for hunches! I guess there are more than a "few" Winter Park residents that agree with the Stong/OneWinterPark platform. Indeed, those "few" turned out to be the majority. It is too bad you cannot see democratic self-determination as anything but "narcissistic arrogance." Thankfully, as an independent municipality in a democratic nation, Winter Park residents who wish to preserve the historic character of their city, will not have growth mangement and transport planning issues dictated to them by self-centered urban sprawl commuters, county bureaucrats, or class-warfare socialists.

When an election is held, as it will be (I signed the petition and it has since been certified), and the residents/taxpayers decide the issue for themselves, you will see what the majority position is. Ask Kip Marchman about that "outspoken minority" !! LOL! Eckbert and Storer are the next to go. When did you become a pollster capable of determining what the minority/majority position is, *without* a democratic election? Have no fear. Democracy will function and the voters will be heard, one way or another.

Your conclusions about a light rail stop in WPK, though seemingly intuitive, are not supported by the data Orange County has shown so far. If WPK opts out of having a light rail stop, it won't be because of "a few sour grapes," it will be because the *majority* of residents democratically voted against it. Further, WPK electing not to have a LR stop will NOT "kill" the project. No part of the coming LR system is dependent on WPK's participation.

Yes. And you can see a massive air conditioning unit sitting on the roof from far away. Ugly.

I love the Wellesly in College Park, too, not in Winter Park.

They need raise only 5.5M through donations, not 18. Furthermore, if this park-expanding, village-scale-preserving deal falls through, the Carlyle won't simply "go up." The city WILL deny final approval, and the developers will sue the city, as a last resort. The city, and concerned residents, will easily tie it up in court for another 2 or 3 years. Because of the material departures from the originally approved plans, I predict that is a case the developers will lose. People have been saying it "WILL" be built for nearly a half decade now. Funny, I haven't seen one shovel of dirt moved yet. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Resistance to the corrupt profiteering cabal is far from over. Amazing how adamant people are that developers should have the right to build anywhere they want, despite the organized opposition of the majority of residents and taxpayers .... and that they should have a right to exploit and overdevelop on LAND THAT THEY DO NOT EVEN OWN!!

Good question. The answer is that the project received *preliminary* approval from a P&Z board corrupted by the influence of people like Alan Keen, Hal Kantor, Doug Guetzloe, and Kip Marchman. Read the Orlando SEntinel to learn what kind of upstanding citizens this people are. And truth be told, that preliminary approval did NOT meet the requirements of the City's Comprehensive Master Plan. The people spoke up. The politics changed. So, too, did the final plans for the building. They increased the size by over 30,000 sq feet! Thus, the P&Z board has recommended DENIAL of final approval. If we weren't careful and thoughtful, we'd be stuck with a huge ugly dryvit box that is completely out of place, such as on Edgewater in College Park. Thank GOD the voters in WPK spoke up. I still don't see why people who don't have any connection to WPK are soooo up in arms about residents guiding development as they see fit.

Simply, the entire point to this situation is: NO YOU CANNOT.

I think you pro-development at any cost people are missing essential elements to the story. The mayor was *elected* _specfically_ on the issue of the Carlyle and protecting Central Park. The *majority* of WP voters support his vision for controlled growth and limitations on building proximate to the park. Furthermore, not ONE CENT of taxpayer money would be spent to pay off the developers. Strong called on members of the community to voluntarily contribute - and put their $$ where their mouth is, if you will. He followed that call by donating $100,000 of his own personal money. He is to be comended for his altruism, fulfilling his promise to voters, and standing up to those that would pave over public space for personal profit. Finally, as a bonus, WPK residents would get: a brand new post office, a brand new expanded library, and Central Park itself would gain 33% more acreage. All financed by the sale of the current, valuable library parcel and donations. Winter Park loves this idea. The only people not pleased are those that sought personal profit from the Carlyle project. The way this board villifies and denigrates democratic self-determination, careful planning, and misstates or glosses over essential facts is just unbelievable. One wonders why, since most posters don't even live in WPK.

The most amusing thing about pro-development, non-WP residents, is that they have this sanctimonious attitude that theirs is the correct position, not only for themselves and Orange County, but for Winter Park. Its as if these self-appointed experts think they know better and know more than the people that ACTUALLY live in this city 24/7/365 and pay taxes. This condescending attitude won't play well with the people you're trying to "educate" (brainwash?). But you're welcome to try and come into town as an outsider and spend loads of $$ on money to try and convince us to vote for something YOU want. Kind of how Hal Kantor and Doug Guetzloe, Orlando's biggest sleazes, thought they could "educate" us with illegal campaign advertisements. We, the ignorant "NIMBY" WP'ers, were just ignorant and couldn't see what a great boon to our town the Carlyle would have been! Well, you know the upshot of that story by now (or should). Kip Marchman got fired. Onewinterpark came to prominence. And the voting residents of WP got an early Xmas present: the Carllyle is dead!! This is democracy in action, and the will of the residents triumphing over greedy, pushy, unethical developers and pressure from outside sources. WP's desire to preserve its cherished park space, and not pave over it for a rail station for non-residents, will not 'KILL' the rail project. IF you're upset you won't be able to ride a train to our shopping district, you have the option of driving there, as in the past, or not coming at all. We'll find some way to carry on, so don't worry too much about us or the holy rail project. Rail will be built, and the residents will decide if the impact on OUR city is acceptable or not. Of the two upcoming votes, I will vote FOR allowing the city to pay $$ for a rail station, but I will vote AGAINST placing such a station anywhere near Central Park. We didn't fight long and hard to kill the Carlyle so that it can be replaced by a concrete commuter park'n'ride hell.

Surely they don't want to do away with the USPS presence, that's the cornerstone of the buidling's public space. What I was suggesting, and the compromise proposed by Mica and others (though opposed by USPS) would be to put the sort facility elsewhere, while maintaining a USPS retail presence - as a way to reduce the building's bulky size without compromising the amount of lucrative, taxable, condo and retail floorspace. The old proposal called for 4 stories (though in some places, features make it look like 5), with a max height of 67' at the corners. This will likely change before its built. Now its just a question of who/what takes the cut. Clearly, the USPS wants that burden on the developer.

At this late point in the debate, I'd say its a matter of deciding WHO will make the sacrifices necessary to reach the compromise required to get the project started. Without USPS approval, this project is dead. Clearly, the developer would prefer to move the USPS sort functions than to compromise the number of condo units, the retail floorspace, or parking garage. Something will give. But, indeed, hooray to all parties involved standing their ground and not letting a developer dictate the terms, scale, and future of a city to its residents. There are no other buildings of this height or mass that are directly contiguous to the parkspace. I know some people apparently don't care about the special status of this location - in contrast to lots on Fairbanks or Morse or wherever else, but clearly enough do such that the political reality of the situation requires compromise. I'm glad arbitration is ongoing and hope to see a Carlyle soon that everyone can be proud of (... or none at all!). We can afford to be picky. I don't have full renderings, but these 2 images I'd previously saved show the (proposed, no-final-approval, now indefinitely postponed and subject to revision) height and density to scale. Cheers eastbank

Today's OrlandoSentinel article on the ongoing stalemate and growing calls to scale back the Carslyle.... When its all said and done this project will show that new development and preservation of a sense of place are not mutually exclusive -- but only if residents care, get active, keep a close watch, and a tight hold of the leash of the developers. Hooray compromise, planning, and forethought!

People have been in the 'talking' stages of this idea for many, many years. Perhaps now it is finally getting some traction, but I suspect it is still at least a few years off. That is one mixed use project, if done to the right scale and standards (which I have no reason to suspect won't be the case, given the scutiny such a project will get), that would be very exciting for the village center. I'm not sure of the specifics, could it be the proposed 200 condo units to complete the project, or is it the upcoming parking garage perhaps??