Mountain_Junior

You’re not kidding. Here’s the ones I know of (not including the Harbordome above). There’s probably more than this list, but these are the ones I could pull together quickly. late 1960s - Newport News and Hampton were set to jointly finance a major coliseum on the Peninsula, tentatively called the Peninsula Arena-Auditorium. But Newport News later backed out, and Hampton City Council financed the entire cost of what is now called Hampton Coliseum. 1969/1970 - Four city stadium idea was floated. Norfolk, VB, Portsmouth, Chesapeake. When a site in Norfolk was proposed, the others backed out. 1985 - Future of Hampton Roads Inc pulls together funds to explore building a major league sports facility in HRVA. 1986 - Sports Authority of Hampton Roads is formed to try to build a proposed NASCAR superspeedway in Isle of Wight County that was never built. 1991 - Combined Norfolk/VB baseball park (VB backed out and this eventually became Harbor Park). Aug 1996 - Hampton Roads Sports Facility Authority (different from the one above from 1986) is formed to work on building an arena to lure pro sports team here. 1997 - Sports Council of Hampton Roads (a sub-element of the HR Chamber) works with Charlotte Hornets owner George Shinn to bring an NHL franchise(Rhinos) to Hampton Roads. 1997 - Hampton Roads Admirals owners Mark Garcea and Page Johnson seek construction of another arena if Hampton Roads' efforts to acquire Rhinos NHL team and build an arena in downtown Norfolk fails. The co-owners, who stressed they would pursue the arena only if the NHL did not award Hampton Roads a franchise, said they were considering several sites in Chesapeake, Virginia Beach and Norfolk. All of the locations were near I-64. 1997 - Williamsburg, York Co, Hampton, Newport News tried to lure the Durham Bulls to the Peninsula by jointly building a stadium. April 2004 - Norfolk tries to lure Montreal Expos to the area with promise of a new stadium. The effort failed. The Expos moved to DC and became the Washington Nationals. 2012 The city of Virginia Beach's economic development authority spent nearly $700,000 laying plans to build a $350 million Oceanfront arena and attract a major professional sports team. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very interesting. Never heard of this. Here’s what I found in the Sep 14, 1984 edition of the Daily Press. Hope the pics are legible. Looks like this was the brainchild of Brad Face and other of the Future of Hampton Roads Inc. but it appears it would’ve gone where the MMBT is now.

In other news, apparently there is a new football league called the National Gridiron League that is starting up soon and one of the teams will be the Virginia Destroyers, based in Hampton Roads. https://www.virginiadestroyers.com/news/ngl-reveals-team-helmets Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey all, I appreciate the likes, but I’d also be interested in any criticism you have of what I said in the last post. I reached out to the rebranding committee and am working on a letter to them that contains those points I made above. As this is a smart group that has thought about these issues a bit, I’d like any feedback you have. What rang true? What didn’t? Is there a way I can say it more succinctly? (my wife suggested this one [emoji1]) Also I know I tend to have long posts, so please don’t feel a need to respond to it all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

23320- I certainly understand that sentiment, but to me it seems that this is the wrong approach. Hampton Roads doesn’t need a name that tells people where it is. If it is successful, people will know where it is. It can’t pick a name that has cultural significance. It needs to be culturally significant, then its name will be as well. In a recent editorial from the Virginian-Pilot and Daily Press (https://www.dailypress.com/opinion/dp-edt-regionalism-hampton-roads-0616-story.html )that commented on this rebranding effort, the Editorial Board stated that Research Triangle, Dallas-Fort Worth and Silicon Valley’s names were “clear and communicative” and “easily identifiable to [outsiders].” This statement perfectly encapsulates our region’s misplaced focus on branding. Those names are not easily identifiable without the context provided by their success. Our knowledge of them comes from their success, not the other way around. “Dallas” provides nothing about its location or what it is, in the same way that “Napa” doesn’t mean “wine” and “Hollywood” doesn’t mean “movies.” Their success in those areas made them recognizable and noteworthy, and has created the indelible association of those elements in our minds. The term Silicon Valley doesn’t directly convey a sense of “technology hub on the south side of the San Francisco Bay.” We only know that information because of its overwhelming success. In fact, the name Silicon Valley is really a sort of inside joke that only makes sense when it is accompanied by the additional understanding of what makes it noteworthy. Similarly, Research Triangle is a premier science, engineering, technology, and entrepreneurship hub in North Carolina. By being indispensable in those areas, we know of its location and it is familiar to us — not because Research Triangle is catchy or has a good ring to it. Additionally, for most of the places listed in the editorial, like Dallas-Fort Worth, San Francisco, Austin, etc., those names have been in place for 150 years or more. They weren’t chosen by a marketing firm because they were evocative or “clear and communicative” or “no explanation necessary.” Those names conjure images of their location because their success, size, notoriety, and cultural significance have made them household names. My point is that the name Hampton Roads may not include in its actual wording a overt or apparent reference to the coast or the beach or the port or whatever it is we want to evoke, but these examples show us that it doesn’t need to. If we can pull together and act like a single entity, we can be known, but until we do, that won’t happen. And by that same token, our branding consultants can come up with the catchiest, most descriptive, and most compelling regional name ever, but if our cities persist in marketing their cities instead of the region, that fancy name won’t matter a bit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Young75, a couple of points: -Nothing happened to the name Tidewater. It’s still used. A lot. Go here (https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Find/Business ) and search “tidewater”. This is just a search of Virginia businesses. You get 4,500 results. The problem is that Tidewater refers to a wider region. It means everything below the fall line of the rivers, which means the area where the water of the rivers can be affected by the ocean tides. See below map. Everything red is often considered Tidewater, but even this is disputed. See http://www.virginiaplaces.org/chesbay/11chesa.html -The name Hampton Roads is historic too and has been around since at least 1755. You know about the Monitor-Merrimack Bridge Tunnel of course. Those two ships fought in what’s called the Battle of Hampton Roads in 1862. -The reason people sometimes incorrectly believe that Hampton Roads is a new name is that in 1983, local business people and civic leaders decided to try to get the region to start using some consistency in referring to the region as Hampton Roads. That year the Postal Service also switched the region’s post mark to Hampton Roads from Tidewater. But to be clear, the name did not originate in 1983. HRSD for instance was founded in the 1930s. -The idea that Tidewater is exclusive to us is also incorrect. A quick Google search shows that Georgia, Texas, and Florida all have locations and businesses that identify with the name Tidewater. Because it really refers to any area where the rivers are close enough to the ocean to be affected by tides. Hampton Roads on the other hand is exclusive to this region (although “Hampton” obviously isn’t). -Another point to remember is that many areas are part of multiple regions. Consider that Napa, CA is part of the Napa Valley, California Wine Country, and the San Francisco Bay Area. Boston is part of the Boston Metro Area, New England, the Northeast Corridor/Northeastern US. It’s perfectly okay for us to have “Tidewater”, aka the coastal areas of eastern Virginia and NC, and the Hampton Roads region, aka the cities and counties that border on or are located near the Hampton Roads waterway. I agree with your point that it can be confusing and I think you hit the nail on the head about the various cities. In my view, the problem is that we don’t have a leading city. Every city thinks it’s the leader. Norfolk/Portsmouth is the jobs center and historical core. Virginia Beach has the biggest population. Suffolk is the largest. Hampton is an old settlement and the roadstead’s namesake. Newport News is the oldest English city name in the entire Americas. At the very minimum, no city will acknowledge that any other city is the region’s leader. That means that they will never come together to jointly fund the big projects that make regions, like a hub airport, sports arena, regional transit, a large entertainment venue, regional multi-use trail system, etc. Contrast this with somewhere like the Delaware Valley Region, which has 350 member cities and counties in its planning commission. The reason they can achieve big things is because Philadelphia is the leading city. It sets the agenda and gets what it needs. While Philadelphia can’t just do whatever it wants, the other cities and towns understand that their livelihood is tied to Philadelphia and as goes Philadelphia, so goes the region. It is the regional hub for transportation, cultural events, and commerce. When people from around there travel they say they’re from Philadelphia. In short, it is not in their interest to seriously undermine Philadelphia. We don’t have that here. No mayor is paying his people’s tax dollars to build some big project in another city unless it has a tangible return like in the case of the regional jail. If it’s something that just “makes the region better”, like a big airport or industrial park, people will see that as a betrayal. It would be political suicide. It’s why we’ve tried like 15 times to build a big stadium. It’s why we have 5 little airports instead of a hub. It’s why we have small minor league sports with city names instead of pro-level teams with regional names (ever heard of the New England Patriots or Carolina Panthers?). Further, the lack of counties between our cities means there is no neutral ground where cities can jointly fund big projects. Look at the locations of Research Triangle Park and RDU airport in between Wake and Durham counties. That location is no accident - because they also have no leading city. Bottom line for me: the lack of clarity between Tidewater, Hampton Roads, Coastal Virginia, America’s First Region, etc is only a symptom of our disunity and will continue no matter how many times we rebrand until we have a leading city (which won’t happen). Or until we unite into a leading city. It’s not because some group in 1983 decided on Hampton Roads or because people have ignored the name Tidewater. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I agree that small-minded attitudes are getting us no where but, if by saying that Raleigh is in a league of its own, you are implying that it's an unfair comparison because Raleigh is some special case that Hampton Roads can’t compete with, then I don’t see it that way. It’s not like Raleigh/Durham sits on some deposit of Vibranium that makes Research Triangle Park only possible there. It’s just that leaders in NC saw that their post-war economy was floundering, recognized an opportunity to change it, seized that opportunity, and most importantly, weren’t undermined by local leaders derailing it as part of a zero-sum intercity rivalry. (It’s location straddling Wake and Durham County is no accident) That’s not to say that rivalries don’t exist there, but for a number of reasons it was able to be shepherded through without any of that stopping it. What I’m saying is that there is nothing that stops us from doing something grand like that here, except for our government structure and the history of hostility in our area. In terms of government structure, I mean annexation law and how cities grow and find revenue that supports the running of government. Raleigh and other NC cities have grown through annexation whereas HRVA cities could not after all the nearby counties consolidated into independent cities. (This is no judgment on the cities/counties that did consolidate. It was VA law at the time and they would’ve been foolish not to take advantage of it.) Raleigh annexation history In HRVA our independent cities grew, as would be expected, and now we had our older cities with other adjacent cities right next to them and all are in effect competing for the same people/businesses/organizations because that’s how they grow and build new revenue streams, not as NC cities do through annexation. Also, since they don’t exist within counties, and are thus tangent to one another, there is no middle ground, so if a big regional project like RTP is being built somewhere, it HAS to be built in one of our cities(assuming here we’re talking about the contiguous seven cities). However, once a location in a host city is chosen, the others will often back out or demand a reassessment of the chosen site because to go forward and support that project would be to give the host city an asset(like an industrial park, stadium, airport, etc) that it will then use to market itself as “better than” those surrounding cities. It is a basic zero sum game: a point for that city subtracts a point from my score. Leaders can’t cooperate without looking like they caved to the other cities. When that cooperation falls through, our cities go it alone and now Hampton Roads has 5 airports, multiple small entertainment venues, a handful of small sports teams, 4 or 5 mini-downtowns, etc., but none of which can compete with another urban area of similar population elsewhere. In NC, on the other hand, the cities annexed the growing urban areas that were developing on their fringes and as a result, no major city with a competing downtown grows up right on its border. So when it comes time to cooperate on something like RTP, the cities can support it being in between them, within the counties that surround it. There’s also not the same history of hostility that exists between those cities because Raleigh’s creation myth isn’t that it was founded to stop Durham from taking that area over and Durham doesn’t feel like Raleigh stole its place. (Ref: Norfolk and VB turbulent history here) That’s not to say there aren’t rivalries and in-fighting at times there, but it doesn’t have the effect of derailing regional cooperation every time. Bottom line, nothing is stopping us but us. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to be honest, I actually enjoy reading the comments. It’s my guilty pleasure Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Raleigh growing faster than Hampton Roads isn’t really news. And it’s not the fault of any one city or city council. It’s been understood for some time that we have a government structure that fosters harmful in-fighting, drives away businesses, and scuttles the types of cooperative efforts that make regions thrive. And it’s been happening for a century or more. 1928 Daily Press: UNIFICATION OF EFFORT URGED OF INTERESTS AND CITIES ON HAMPTON ROADS “Believing that the industrial and commercial interests of the two sides of the Port of Hampton Roads are the same and that the establishment of separate municipalities cannot overcome economic conditions, J. Gordon Bohannan, chairman of the State Port Authority of Virginia and members of the port authority met in conference yesterday with city officials of the Hampton Roads cities … in an effort to secure greater cooperation between the cities of the port… Realizing that the problem was too big to solve without serious and long consideration … the Port Authority chairman … ask[ed] each of the four Hampton Roads cities: Newport News, Norfolk, Hampton and Portsmouth to appoint committees … to reach some solution to the problem of intercity antipathy which is alleged, to exist between them now.” 1950 Daily Press: PROMISING PORT PROPOSAL “One of the most unfortunate circumstances of the development of this area has been the separateness of its various segments.… [C]ommunities that have almost everything in common have vied with each other for port business and industrial development while they should have been fighting to bring business to the area…. To the outside world the Hampton Roads area must present a united front if it is to win confidence and trust. An area divided against itself as this area has been is its own worst enemy.” 1974: Daily Press: DESIGN GROUP URGES END OF IN-FIGHTING IN DEVELOPING REGIONAL TRANSIT SYSTEM “The Tidewater localities, planning district commissions, and politicians should stop their in-fighting over boundaries and begin working together to formulate a regional transportation system or they will continue to suffer from ‘arterial sclerosis’ of the cities…” 1996: Virginian-Pilot: CITIZENS SAY A LACK OF COOPERATION HURTS EFFORT AT LURING JOBS “Citizens attending a neighborhood forum on regional issues Thursday said there was not enough cooperation among Hampton Roads cities to attract corporations that provide good-paying jobs. The citizens also named three other major stumbling blocks to luring major businesses: negative publicity about water problems, uncertainty about defining the region and promoting its strengths and inadequate region-wide transit, including lack of a light-rail system.” 2017 Virginian-Pilot: REGIONAL SUCCESS SUFFERS AS CITIES COMPETE “Municipal decision-making in Hampton Roads tends to be so inwardly focused that little consideration — if any — goes to how one city’s decisions affect life in another. That’s especially frustrating because while we may each be a resident of individual cities, the borders between municipalities matter little in our daily lives, or in the business we conduct or, really, in how we are perceived by others. … It means that cities compete far more than cooperate … since what benefits one city is not necessarily perceived as helping its neighbor. It means that the region’s cities, representing 1.7 million Virginians, have left uncountable opportunities begging because businesses from beyond the region see individual cities squabbling rather than a cooperating community. … And that leads to the kind of short-sighted choices that end up costing all of us.” History shows that competing localities with conflicting agendas have not and will not deliver on regional aspirations. So no need to waste any astonishment on the fact that disunity has left the region lagging its peers. Unification of Effort Urged Of Interests and Cities on Hampton Roads https://www.newspapers.com/image/231534235/ Promising Port Proposal https://www.newspapers.com/image/231248728/ Design Group Urges End Of In-Fighting In Developing Regional Transit System https://www.newspapers.com/image/230963735/ Citizens Say a Lack of Cooperation Hurts Effort at Luring Jobs https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1996/vp960517/05170482.htm Regional success suffers as cities compete https://pilotonline.com/opinion/editorial/article_c37d51ac-bf56-5869-8583-9821bd7a5238.html

BFG, you know I agree with you. Just a few considerations. First, I think the idea if at-large seats is much needed here. You want some folks who are the big picture members that act as the sort of “disinterested third party” when folks pick sides on an issue. Second point, a quick look at VA code brings up some relevant articles. This top one notes that city councils are currently restricted to a max of 11 members so such a council would require a change to this or an exception for HRVA. Not that this would be impossible though. The new city’s charter would have to be approved anyway and some other things would have to be included in there, so this would just be one of them. For such a large metro area I think the justification is there. —————— § 15.2-1400. Governing bodies. A. The qualified voters of every locality shall elect a governing body for such locality. The date, place, number, term and other details of the election shall be as specified by law, general or special. Qualification for office is provided in § 15.2-1522 et seq. B. The governing body of every locality shall be composed of not fewer than three nor more than eleven members. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title15.2/chapter14/section15.2-1400/ This next one seems to say in para 9.b. that constitutional officers (mayors, city council etc) can stay put if that’s part of the consolidation agreement. ———————- § 15.2-3534. Optional provisions of consolidation agreement 9. a. In the event of establishment of a consolidated city, there shall be a new election of officers therefor whose election and qualification shall terminate the terms of office of their predecessors; provision may be made for the exclusion from such new election of such elective officers as is deemed desirable. b. In the event of the establishment of a consolidated city, the constitutional officers of the consolidating jurisdictions may continue in office at not less than their salaries in effect at the effective date of consolidation; the selection of each constitutional officer for the consolidated city shall be made by agreement between those persons holding such respective offices, and the other or others, as the case may be, shall become assistants or chief deputies, upon filing of a certification of such agreement in a circuit court and approval by the court; in the event no agreement is reached or no certification is filed on or before a date stated in the consolidation agreement, the circuit court shall designate one officer as principal and the other or others, as the case may be, as assistants or chief deputies; and in the event of a vacancy in the office of assistant or chief deputy thereby created during such term, the position shall be abolished. Each such officer shall continue in office, whether as the principal officer or as chief deputy or assistant, until January 1 following the next regularly scheduled election pursuant to § 24.2-217, whether or not the term to which such officer was elected may have expired prior to that date. When the effective date of the consolidation plan is the same as the end of the term of one or more existing constitutional officers for the consolidating jurisdictions, an election shall be held to elect such constitutional officers for the consolidating jurisdictions for a new term to begin on the effective date of consolidation. Such newly elected officers may or may not become the principal constitutional officers of the consolidated city under this provision. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title15.2/chapter35/section15.2-3534/ Anyway, as I said you have my vote. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One other point. This is basically what I and many others mean when we talk about consolidation. The new city’s charter would just have to be written so that there is a metro council and each borough would have its own council and even mayor(NYC does it this way). Then citizen-level services (fixing pot holes, dog catchers, building permits, etc) stay at the borough level but the big picture, strategic, long term stuff like transportation, land use planning, and big infrastructure projects, happen at the metro level. Besides consolidating and writing a charter with this system in it, there’s really not another way to organize it this way. It’s also worth noting that Suffolk, VB, and Chesapeake all have boroughs today for this reason: consolidation without preserving the existing communities is unpopular and seen as “wiping them out”. I guess I’m basically saying that I agree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem is that there is essentially no provision in VA law for this type of thing. It’s one of the state’s serious shortcomings and people have been writing about it for decades. It’s why consolidation gets brought up over and over again. Many if not most would prefer a metro approach to full consolidation but since that’s not available our options are: continue to flounder and lag other regions or consolidate. And before anyone says “HRPDC”, I’ll just say that HRPDC is an advisory body. They have virtually no authority to compel the localities to abide by the plans they come up with. And that is by law. You can’t just “make HRPDC stronger” without a general assembly vote. In short, our state is woefully equipped to deal with regional issues or action. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So it’s not super clear in the article but what I think it’s saying is that military personnel will now be counted where they are stationed, like Hampton Roads, instead of where they initially enlisted(this is known as the home of record). The article says that previously “all military members serving abroad during the head count” which included “both stationed and temporarily deployed troops” would be assigned to a state’s population totals “based on the addresses provided when they enlisted.” This means that in the past, if Sgt. Joe lived in Iowa when he enlisted, that would be his “home of record”. So even though he actually lives near Fort Story because that’s where the Army has assigned him, the census will count him as a resident of Iowa because that’s where he lived when he joined the Army. The article then says that “After years of advocacy by lawmakers and community leaders from areas with military bases nearby, the Census Bureau decided to make a switch for the 2020 census and count deployed troops at the bases or ports they are assigned away from on Census Day, April 1.” This is because places like VA and others that have big mil populations are basically saying “these military personnel live in our states, use our infrastructure, send their kids to our schools, rely on our services, etc. but if you count them elsewhere, we don’t get the funding and representation that should come along with that.” I think it’s probably more about congressional representation but you get the idea. The confusion is that at any point, about 15% of those personnel assigned to Hampton Roads (or any other base/area) are deployed overseas to the Middle East, Africa, Europe, etc. DOD is saying that they can’t provide that deployment data in time for the census deadline. But the census wants to count Sgt. Joe as “not in Virginia” if he’s in Africa at the time of the census. So that 15% of 83K won’t be counted as “in Hampton Roads” for census purposes. They’ll be counted as “overseas.” The remaining 85% will be counted toward our total here (instead of their home of record), which is a change from previous years. Anyone else read it differently? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, especially since those same numbers will be taken from other urban areas all around the country (although this may be negligible). I think another interesting angle to this is who will benefit locally. I’d seem to me that VB and Chesapeake might have more to gain than Norfolk and Portsmouth given that lots of the workers from those cities reside in VB and Chesapeake. VB already is ahead in population so it may not make enough of a difference to matter but it probably will skew in their direction a bit. Also I wonder if that could cause electoral districts to look really different. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HRCOC claims its 83K so yeah I’d say that’s a boon for Hampton Roads. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. That’s very kind. I agree that it’s fun to sort of wonder what we’d look like if Norfolk had continued to grow south and east while Portsmouth grew south and west. I think we’d have like a Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex happening, at least on the southside. I think it’s interesting that even the City Manager of VB in 1969, the city that only 7 yrs prior to this had consolidated w/PA county to stop Norfolk’s growth, predicted that we’d be a single consolidated city by now. From his letter that was put in a time capsule: “I believe that the Norfolk, Portsmouth, Chesapeake and Virginia Beach cities will be merged into one city called “Tidewater” with a population of more than four million people.” https://pilotonline.com/news/local/history/article_3ac3fad4-0700-53c2-8230-59f3186d6d41.html Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From a political perspective, yes I think merging the cities and their governments is a challenge, however in terms of the mechanics of government, it’s easier to merge, say, two cities than a county and an adjacent independent city. In VA code, Title 15.2, Ch. 35 “Consolidation of Localities” it states that there are some extra hoops to jump through when consolidating dissimilar units of government, making it a little harder. Also, if you look at the way cities and counties are organized, the services they provide, and how they earn revenue, those dissimilar elements add another level of complexity to it. As far as the governments being a hurdle, I agree with you, but it’s worth noting that across our history, there have been a large number of local government officials who’ve expressed support for the idea of consolidation, however this is usually after they’ve left office or in private. So my sense is that it’s less about them not agreeing with it and more about them feeling that any support for it will look like a betrayal to their voters. As far as Norfolk getting greedy with land grabs, I’d have to say that is a pretty unfair telling of the situation. The fact is, that this is how all cities grow. It’s not unfair and it’s not greedy. It’s normal. Populations move into the area surrounding a city, but as they begin to grow and benefit from the jobs, infrastructure, services, and amenities paid for by the central city, they get annexed so that their taxes can properly contribute to the maintenance of the city that they so obviously benefit from. It’s only because Virginia foolishly adopted a moratorium on annexations and allowed city/county consolidations into independent cities to block core city annexations that resulted in what we have now. Jim Oliver explained in 2015 by saying that “Fifty years ago Norfolk, Charlotte, Nashville, Indianapolis, Jacksonville and Portland, Ore., were seen as older, midsized, economically stable cities that were unlikely to become regional centers. In 1965, Virginia's largest city, home to the largest military bases and an international port, was seen as the most likely of those to grow and prosper. By 2015, each of the other regions has prospered and grown by harnessing their regional power. Our region has failed to meet its potential by any of a number of economic measures and has remained largely balkanized. Between 1990 and 2008, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, Hampton Roads grew 14 percent in population while Charlotte grew 58 percent, Nashville 43 percent and Jacksonville 38 percent. The annual payroll per-private-business employee is $32,481 here, $42,221 in Charlotte and $37,274 in Jacksonville.” https://pilotonline.com/opinion/columnist/guest/article_5cc66e48-5360-5725-a05c-a8fecc29ea62.html Given that our region now exists the way it does, consolidation is our best hope to ever compete again with other regions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More real world proof of the benefits of consolidation. Daily Press: While mired in investigations and death, Hampton Roads Regional Jail's board fought against change https://www.dailypress.com/news/southside/dp-nws-regional-jail-investigation-0411-story.html Quotation about the regional jail: “With responsibility dissipated through the multi-member board, there is no one elected official accountable for what happens there. ‘If everyone is in charge, then no one is in charge,’ said Michelle Deitch, a jail oversight expert and senior lecturer at the LBJ School and the School of Law at The University of Texas at Austin.” Contrast it with this statement about the consolidated city of Jacksonville: Tale of two mergers: Jacksonville - The Gainesville Sun https://www.gainesville.com/news/20080512/tale-of-two-mergers-jacksonville Excerpt from the article: “Mullaney said much of Jacksonville’s success in consolidating lies in its decision to create a strong-mayor form of government in which the mayor is essentially the executive director of the whole county. Rinaman said the accountability that form of government created has been the most important benefit of consolidation. ‘Not having responsibility spread all over the countryside is probably the key achievement,’ Rinaman said. ‘The mayor is responsible for just about everything, and is therefore more responsive. If something goes right or wrong, there’s no question about which governmental body is to blame.’” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey everyone, something a little different for you here. Attached are 3 screenshots of a poem I wrote last week about the unification/consolidation of Hampton Roads. I thought that this might be a way to get people to think about this issue, while also (hopefully) being entertained. What I’ve attached is a draft so it may get a few minor changes still, but I think it’s about as it will look in its final form. Although I recognize it does need to be shorter. Ultimately, this will likely become a submission for WHRO’s “Writer’s Block”, a local radio program that showcases musicians, storytellers, poets, and spoken word artists from Hampton Roads (via public performances that are recorded, edited, and played at a later date). I’ve read some work for them before and hopefully this will make the cut as well. I got the idea to do this after remembering an 1887 poem called “One Civic System” by George Nowitsky. (If anyone wants to read it, let me know and I’ll send it to you) Anyway, I hope you enjoy. If you have any feedback, I’m happy to hear it. And if you want it read by someone famous, like Morgan Freeman or Michael Caine, look at a picture of them first, then read it. You’ll hear it in their voice in your head. So that’s fun. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi everyone. I'm 37 and live in Chesapeake, but I'm not from the area originally. I moved here first in 2004, lived in Hampton, then moved to Virginia Beach when I got married and my wife didn't want to drive through the tunnel for her work. Then moved away for work in 2006, then back to the area in 2014 to Chesapeake. Been there for almost 5 years now I guess. Now my wife is bugging me to move to Norfolk or Portsmouth (she wants to live in a walkable neighborhood), so I might soon be able to say I've lived in 4 of the 7 core Hampton Roads cities. Anyway, since moving back here in 2014, I started getting more interested in my community, and began reading and learning about the area, going to city council meetings, HRTPO meetings, got Virginian-Pilot and Daily Press subscriptions, listening to Hearsay and other radio shows, etc. As I learned more and began to see articles and such talking about harmful competition between the region's cities, I began to wonder, like many people do, why the region never became a single city. I have an undergrad degree in political science, so I kind of knew where to look and what to look for. I started digging and haven't come up for air since. It's how I found this forum. Eventually, I went out and got memberships to the ODU, Chesapeake, Norfolk, and Virginia Beach libraries, so I could look over old newspapers. I bought a couple of books. And now I know enough to really turn people off in conversation. But my real motivation for all that reading was to have some context and some facts in these discussions. Too often when I talk to people about consolidation/merger/regionalism etc, it becomes a conversation of "I think this" vs "I think that" and since there's no accounting for taste, it just ends there, both realizing that we disagree and that's about it. While an exchange of outlooks is important, I like to get to facts, reports, surveys, and data. So, in short, sorry if I go hard with sources and citations on my posts. It's just how I think. Anyway, I love it here and will be trying my very best not to move any time soon. I've lived quite a few places in my life, but Hampton Roads feels really different. I'll close with this: When I told my wife about this forum, she said "oh good, you've found your people", so I'm obviously happy to be a member here.

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With regards to the idea of a metro council, I think it’s a good idea, but this very thing was in essence the outcome of Future of Hampton Roads Inc’s Regional Structure Project. http://fhrinc.org/Sections/Publications/RegionalStructureProject/index.html Their Report 3- Recommendations of the Regional Structure Project is well worth a read. Their main take away is that the region needs a legitimate, elected, empowered regional body to cover regional issues. However, if this group of some 200 influential business, government, and community leaders couldn’t move the needle, I’m not sure who can. Eventually they petered out. In 2013 FHR voted to downsize into just a group of CEOs with more focus on business growth. I think they just got tired of fighting for a region that didn’t want to fight for itself. https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/article_63ad0d3a-e0d7-54b7-a17f-de3da77f9d6e.html At the same time the Regional Structure Project was at work Norfolk Mayor Paul Fraim said “the surest way to kill an idea was to wrap it into a plan for regional government.” However, here’s the really infuriating part. Later in the same interview he said “We have a truly regional economy, a regional work force, but inside of that region, we have real winners and losers depending on where certain tax producers are located, and where the lines are drawn... How do you form a strategic agenda for a region that is broken down into 16 different localities? Where are we going, and who is going to take us there. You not only have a number of local governments, but they are completely independent... As unpleasant as it seems, consolidation might be the easiest route.” (https://www.alexmarshall.org/2007/09/24/greater-norfolk-why-not/) So he basically says, consolidation/regional govt is probably the worst thing you can talk about around here, but also it might be the best thing available to fix our problems. I’ll leave you with one more thought on why this won’t happen right away. David Temple’s 1972 book Merger Politics: Local Government Consolidation in Tidewater Virginia is the best study of our region’s mergers to date (except for Suffolk which was in ‘74). He wrote the conditions needed for such mergers. Here they are. Sorry for the low quality. FYI is book is at most local libraries. I think the key think from his list that we lack is a crisis. What prompted consolidations in a lot of places, like Jacksonville for instance, were scandals or crises. Often these only serve as the catalyst for something that already was simmering under the surface, but it finds life after a crisis. In Jacksonville, a corruption scandal that ensnared almost the entire city council precipitated a meeting of local businessmen who decided the time was right to consolidate and reform their govt. You should read about their system of organization. It is impressive. For instance they have an independent judiciary of sorts within their municipal structure that issues authoritative decisions on legal interpretation disputes, streamlining the time to resolve them vs going to court. Back to my point, no crisis here. Just slow decline or a failure to grow as fast as peers. Things aren’t great and even a crisis might only be relegated to a single city so it wouldn’t galvanize people. The other problem I see is rampant cynicism. I think that’s what I see more than anything else. When I bring up consolidation to people, they say “the politicians will never allow it” or “it’ll never work.” Which I find fascinating given that this area saw four such mergers between 1956 and 1974. But our history of squabbling gives them lots of reasons not to expect much on this front, despite the logic of it. It’s hard to cut through cynicism. I do think, however, there is a latent support for the idea though. For instance, in 2006 an online survey found that 72% of people supported merging the seven cities. (https://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-xpm-20010814-2001-08-14-0108140024-story.html) Similarly, in 2000, ODU’s state of the region report (in Part 1: the state of public opinion) noted that in their recent survey that 50.5% of respondents supported consolidation of Hampton Roads localities - and the question was if they thought all 15 cities and counties should merge! I dare say it would’ve been more if the question had been asked about merging a more practical collection of localities like the core 7 cities. (https://digitalcommons.odu.edu/sor_reports/index.2.html#year_2000) So as I said, I think most of the public supports this or would be open to discussion about it. The problem is that they are apathetic because there isn’t a crisis to galvanize support. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey all. A little light weekend reading for you here. Ran across this article a while back and found it interesting. It’s got some good background and history of merger attempts here. It’s from Hampton Roads Magazine, which is now called Coastal Virginia Magazine. Enjoy. One Big City? Could We Supersize Hampton Roads? by Karen Haywood Queen https://web.archive.org/web/20050119002230/http://www.hamptonroadsmagazine.com:80/issues/0203/onecity.php Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem I think is not the brand itself but the thing being branded. On this topic, people often say that we need a name that calls to mind our strengths. This is why people like "Coastal Virginia". It evokes thoughts of the water and the beach. It's why for a while, people liked "America's First Region" as a tagline for us. It evokes the history. I think the problem is that we're chasing a flashy name when that's not where the focus should be. It's like if you are designing a car, you don't spend 50% of your time working on the name and 50% on the car itself. Otherwise, your car sucks, even if the name is great. You make sure the car is awesome first, then worry about the name as an important, but nevertheless secondary, consideration. In this article on the name debate (http://www.coastalvirginiamag.com/March-April-2018/Hampton-Roads-vs-Coastal-Virginia-The-Debate-Over-Regional-Identity/) they quote people who think the names Tidewater and Hampton Roads are "nondescript" and lacking "clarity of meaning." But I would ask you what images or impressions come to mind why I mention the following: Hollywood Broadway Manhattan When I mention Hollywood, you probably picture the heart of the movie/tv industry, the hillside letters, studio lots, director's chairs. It's name means movie/tv industry. It has become the brand. Broadway evokes scenes of theater, singing, dancing, Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Hamilton, whatever. Same for Manhattan and pictures of tall buildings and bustling city streets. None of those names have any direct association or reference to those pictures in your head. Hollywood doesn't mean "movies." Manhattan doesn't mean "tall buildings." It's because in popular art, songs, movies and other media, they have been put together time and again, because they were significant enough to be talked about. We are significant here and have all the offerings that people want. The problem is that cities refuse to work together on marketing all their assets and advantages jointly, so the effect is diluted. To quote from this article (https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950430/04290232.htm): Lack of money behind focused marketing efforts has prevented widespread national recognition from developing in Hampton Roads, said Greg Wingfield, president of the Greater Richmond Partnership, a joint public-private economic development agency. Wingfield resigned from Forward Hampton Roads, the economic development arm of the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce which he headed, last year out of frustration over the lack of progress made in regionalism. Only Forward Hampton Roads funds active marketing of the name when it tries to “sell” the region. Its budget - $500,000 - is a fraction of that of other cities half the size or population of Hampton Roads. Through the Greater Richmond Partnership, Richmond commands a $2.4 million war chest, which helped land Motorola's new semiconductor plant in Goochland County. Even the Roanoke Regional Economic Development Partnership has a $600,000 budget for a region one-sixth the size of Hampton Roads. “Why don't we do this?” asked Michael Barrett, a former chairman of the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce. “Parochialism.” “You keep going back to the fact that some leaders, particularly political leaders, want to keep us parochial, and consequently we suffer as a region,” Barrett said. In short, we're trying to put the cart before the horse. I'm a supporter of consolidation and this is one reason why. You could market the region by saying "Want beaches, dining, nightlife, shopping, history, outdoor activities, museums, performing arts, theme parks, agritourism, and major league sports? Then visit Colonial Coast, Virginia! All that’s missing is you!" or something like that. (And pick whatever name you want to put in there instead of Colonial Coast - no one agree with anyone else anyways) Right now it's more like "come to VB for beaches, dining, and shopping! And come to Portsmouth for history and a beautiful waterfront. And also come visit Hampton, it has a waterfront too, and shopping, and nightlife. And come to Norfolk, it has performing arts, nightli- hello? hello? I think they hung up." My point is that we have all the great stuff here already, but even if the Chamber of Commerce or whoever comes up with the best, catchiest, most-descriptive brand out there, it's not going to be worth the paper it's written on if the region's cities continue to want to go it alone. And hindsight unfortunately shows us that that's almost certainly what they will do, so long as political borders divide us that give politicians an incentive to care about their locality alone.

Little late to the post here, but I just found out recently that Tidewater is apparently defined in VA Code. See https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/62.1-44.15:68/ and http://www.virginiaplaces.org/chesbay/11chesa.html. Tidewater technically refers to a big section of eastern VA, all the way up to Fairfax. Apparently it is everything seaward of the "fall line", which is basically where the land rises from the coastal plains into the Piedmont. Because of this rise, there are waterfalls in the rivers (i.e. creating the "fall line") and that means that the ocean's tides do not affect anything above that line, but the waters below that line are affected by tides, thus tidewater. It seems that maybe over time that moniker has been used largely (though not exclusively) by people in Hampton Roads to refer to their region.