wally2169

Not so encouraging here.... After a more than five-year frenzy, the condo-building boom in downtown Orlando has ground to a halt. A new Orlando Sentinel survey of the downtown core finds that more than two-thirds of the 40 new high- and mid-rise condo projects announced in recent years are in limbo, as developers grapple with a slumping housing market, soaring construction costs and lending-industry turmoil. Many plans have been postponed or altered; some have been scrapped altogether. Not a single project has broken ground since an identical Sentinel survey six months ago found only 15 of the 40 projects had begun construction or been completed. Scott Stahley, a senior vice president at Lincoln Property Co., calls the current condo environment "scary." "It cannot be done," said Stahley, whose company is building the 32-story Dynetech Centre on Washington Street, which will have office and retail space plus 164 apartments -- but no condos. The projects that have yet to get out of the ground may be the lucky ones. Many developers say the condo market has fallen so precipitously that the true danger now lies with the handful of still-incomplete towers that have already passed the point of no return. Among them: The Vue at Lake Eola, the Paramount and 55 West, which combined are expected to inject more than 1,100 condos into downtown during the next 13 months. Representatives of all three projects say they are confident. Each has signed contracts and cashed deposits with buyers on the majority of their units. Speculators add to unease But what nobody knows is how many of those buyers are people who intend to move in and how many are speculators who could walk away from their investments rather than close. That problem has confronted developers of Orlando's newest condo skyscraper, Solaire at the Plaza. Though the condo tower on Church Street opened in March, the developer, Marietta, Ga.-based Wood Partners, says it has sold only two thirds of the more than 300 units. And some of those are sitting empty. Property records show that only a quarter of the Solaire's units -- 75 in all -- are owned by people who list their condo as their mailing address. "The tale [of the condo slump] is still to be told," said Jeff Arnold, president of Concorde Eastridge, which aborted plans for a 31-story, 187-unit condo tower at Rosalind Avenue and Washington Street in favor of plans for a hotel with only 55 condos. "I think upon the delivery of some of the units that are getting close to completion, like The Vue and others, we will find out whether the buyers are actually going to close," Arnold said. "There's going to be some leakage. The question is, how much leakage?" Withered demand Housing markets in Orlando and the rest of Florida began to fall back to earth last year after an unprecedented boom through the first half of the decade sent land values skyrocketing and construction cranes sprouting. Demand withered, speculators pulled out, and the price of everything from concrete to gasoline pushed developers' costs higher. More recently, the lending turmoil racking Wall Street has made financing for projects even harder. The slide displays few signs of slowing. A recent report showed that existing home sales in greater Orlando tumbled almost 43 percent in July from a year ago. Condos have been hit particularly hard; the same report found that condo sales had plunged 64 percent. Even some of the most optimistic builders in Orlando have been forced to shelve their plans. Craig Ustler, the veteran downtown developer who helped revitalize Thornton Park, had been hoping to begin construction on his latest downtown venture this summer. Now, however, he says the 13-story, 43-unit East on Park won't begin until January at the earliest. "Anything that's not in the air is on hold," Ustler said. Developers re-evaluating With the condo market falling, many developers have gone back to the drawing board. For instance, the 86 condos initially planned for the top of a 225-room hotel on Central Boulevard have been stripped out. JLJ Properties of Lake Mary, which once planned to construct two towers and 510 condos at Church Street and Eola Drive, says it is now considering building apartments or simply selling the property. The developers of Sky Towers at Orange Avenue and Ivanhoe Boulevard have given up on their 381 condos and are looking at retail and office space, according to the minutes of a recent Downtown Development Board meeting. Rumors are also swirling that changes are in store for the 39-story Tradition Towers on Central Boulevard, which is to have two towers of luxury condos linked by a sky bridge housing the exclusive University Club. A spokesman for the developer, Broad Street Partners, said the company plans a "public announcement on the project in the next 60 days." The half of it could be bleak A number of developers are in a situation some say is the worst-case scenario: halfway built. Five downtown condo towers are in the midst of construction right now, including the 100-unit Star Tower on Jackson Street and the 146-unit 101 Eola. The other three are giants: Developers are putting the finishing touches on The Vue at Lake Eola, which looms 36 stories over Rosalind Avenue and will have 375 condos. The first residents are expected to begin moving in next month. Hope McCampbell, vice president of marketing for the project's Churchill Development Group, said just 30 units remain to be sold. The 312 units at the 16-story Paramount on Central Boulevard, which expects to wrap in about 10 months, are about 98 percent sold, said developer Steve Patterson, the president and chief executive of Zom Inc. The last of the three scheduled to arrive also has the most units -- and the least sold. 55 West, the massive 32-story tower rising on Church Street, isn't likely to be finished until September 2008. The project's 405 condos, which are selling from the $300,000s to more than $3 million, are about 75 percent sold, said Jim Schroder, director of development for developer Euro American Advisors. But despite the heavy sales, those involved with all three projects acknowledge that they have no way to be sure how many of those buyers will actually close on their condos -- especially if the market doesn't improve. Walk-aways face losses "We'll have some fallout, there's no question about it," Patterson said, though he noted that Paramount required 15 percent deposits on condos that range in price from $220,000 to $2 million. "People are going to walk away from a lot of money if they walk away." Some walk-aways have occurred at the recently completed Solaire, said Jillian McGibbon, a sales and marketing manager for Wood Partners, which still owns about 105 of the building's units. Still, McGibbon said the developer is pleased with the progress of sales, given the condo slump. "To think that we're being slightly affected by it, rather than seriously, we're very happy about it," McGibbon said. Developers make no secret that they will be anxiously watching to see how the newest projects perform. "I think everybody is in the search mode: How many investors are there?" said Michael Beale, of Raleigh, N.C.-based Highwoods Properties, which has a 125-unit downtown condo project on hold and another in early planning stages. "We were all hoping it was like 80 percent owner-occupied and 20 percent investors," he said. "But no one knows." The Miami market could get hit the worst by the condo glut

It's coming..... ORLANDO, Fla. -- Church Street Station, a historic downtown Orlando attraction, is being renovated. Once owned by Lou Pearlman, Church Street Station is now owned by developer Cameron Kuhn and undergoing a grand transformation, WESH 2 News reported. Chef Mark Dollard got a rare second chance at business success at Church Street Station. Dollard's restaurant, Absinthe Bistro, closed when music promoter and Church Street owner, Lou Pearlman, declared bankruptcy, and sold his properties. Dollard plans to open a pizza kitchen and wine bar, scheduled to open in October. Other businesses have planned to open in Church Street in the coming months as this former tourist hot spot comes back to life. "Residents are going to want to be able to stay downtown, work downtown, live downtown, eat downtown, and I'm even considering moving downtown as a result of that," Dollard said. Other businesses are also being renovated, such as the Improv Comedy Club, the popular Dessert Lady, and the old Pearl Steakhouse is being replaced by a tapas restaurant and bar. One of the most anticipated renovations and re-openings is the Old Cheyenne Saloon. It is 20,000 square feet and four stories. The new developments are beneficial for people who plan to live in some of the 5,000 condo units under construction in downtown, including 55 West a block away. "It's definitely going to help any business on Church Street or in the immediate downtown area," Panchero

Yeah, nice fantasy

Yes, God forbid Doug Guetzloe could ever be pre-judged He has earned his title as crotch stain on his own nicely This dynamic duo will only annoy for annoyance sake Get ready to deal with this for the next 6 months guys

Well, according to this from WFTV, it takes an a**hole to know an a**hole: ORLANDO, Fla. -- Harris Rosen and Doug Guetzloe have made names for themselves in very different ways. Thursday they were together working as one. Guetzloe is the controversial political consultant and Rosen is the millionaire hotelier. They have teamed up for a common goal; shooting down the new community venues until the public can vote. But even though they have a common interest, Rosen said unlike others in the past, he is not paying Guetzloe. "I don't want to pre-judge Doug. If he's going to help me, God bless him. I don't want to have a relationship with Doug or his group," Rosen said. Rosen said he's not paying Guetzloe anything for his help. He needs to collect more than 30,000 signatures by February. The Orlando Magic paid Guetzloe in the past not to fight their push for a venue.

Nice

Interesting.... Any idea where it will be located?

Any idea on how many rooms there will be or the floor count?

God I wish it was $250 million the stadium was granted

I'm not so much concerned about whether or not there will be enough events coming to the Citrus Bowl in the future, I believe that can be pimped out to just about anything My concern is whether or not the $175 million is actually enough, if this money will REALLY bring the stadium up to grand standards If they're going to wait a year or two to see how the tax revenue comes in, it leads me to believe that the cost will only rise and that $175 million will accompish much less than now Also, will they need new funds for future renovations in another 15-20 years from now and how will they get those funds then Will the new business that might come to the Citrus Bowl be substantial enough they that Citrus Sports can actually fund future renovations or will it be another beg-athon for more tax revenue Having said that, I have no issue about fixing the stadium I really do think they will be able to attract more business, maybe not a huge amount more but substantially enough more that people will be able to look on it with a pretty good feeling inside them Here's hoping at least....

An interesting editorial from WESH Chanel 2 online today: It took nearly two years, gallons of ink, and much political maneuvering, but they finally did it. The City of Orlando and Orange County finally put together a package deal for two impressive venues for downtown -- a performing arts center and a new arena for the Orlando Magic -- and one overpriced, wasteful renovation of the Citrus Bowl. The Citrus Bowl supporters, those "Green Jacket" people, almost derailed the whole thing by linking this silly project to the others. Luckily, Orange County Commissioners added a last-minute amendment to the financing package that would delay the Citrus Bowl renovations by a year or more if the tourist tax money isn

So where do you think that leaves us standing on Winter Park and Maitland? Is there any real issue or concern they might not approve it?

I agree it is mostly based on construction costs have skyrocketed in the past 2 years ( thank you very much Dubai and China ) But also bear in mind the fact that almonst every single metropolitan area has built a new arena in the past 15 years, whether they have an anchor sporting tenant or not Everyone has seen these new arenas and the next city tries to top it I believe strongly that the Magic and Orlando in general are looking to build the arena to end all arenas It will be huge and amazing looking High construction costs have contributed but I am sure they are looking to dazzle and pull out all their tricks to do so

If we ever landed an NFL team ( not bloody likely ) the stadium would indeed have to go through a much larger scale renovation If they were to hypothetically do a full renovation right now to NFL standards today, it would need to be around a $350 million project, double what they are going to get It's the only way to fully make the stadium stand out and be spectacular I agree with the other post, we will not get an NFL team unless the Bucs or Jags move here Very unlikely an out of state team like the Saints will move here which will leave Florida with 4 pro teams The NFL will never create an expansion team for us

What are the 3 other projects? It's the Hilton at the Convention Center, the Waldorf Astoria at Disney and what else exactly?

Does everyone think that $175 million will be enough to really transform the Citrus Bowl into a wordclass stadium or is this just a half a renovation?

I think this is a good thing By the time everything is finishing up construction and readying to open, the real estate market will be turned around and a whole new group of investors wil be lining up to invest in downtown It's all coming together nicely, get ready for more to come

Just out of asking, if the tax revenue does come in as planned or better based on the increase and the 3 venues do in fact accomlish their goal, is there a chance that additional renovations to the Citrus Bowl could be planned for the future based on an increase in the tax or based on higher revenues if the tourist trade does extremely well? Or is this pretty much it, another 20-25 years from now a presentation begins to circulate pointing out that no renovations have been done to the stadium since now basically?

Are you referring to the "Creative Village?"

So.....where is the money for the baseball stadium going to come from? I don't think we are going to be able to go to this mat too many more times

It's always going to be something At least we can enjoy something for a while

Well now that this is official, what are we going to complain about in the future now?

A great blog from the Sentinel tonight: "Mission Accomplished - Vision Fulfilled!" - Mayor Richard Crotty Wow. Honestly, I am awestruck. Congratulations to Orange County and all of the Citizens of Orlando and Central Florida. A major step has just been taken to help propel us into the future. I would like to take the time to thank some of the players involved in this process: THANK YOU Buddy Dyer for having the continued vision for the proper growth and management of this city. Your leadership and vision has changed Orlando for the better forever. The idea of packaging the three venues together was a bold, risky move, but it will allow for all to move forward NOW, rather than languish in political muck for years to come. THANK YOU Rich Crotty for moving beyond city/county rival politics and joining forces with Mayor Dyer to get this done (And thanks for basically telling Ken McAvoy to shove it for his gloom and doom presentation, and for moving tonight's meeting along). THANK YOU Commissioners Stewart, Segal, Jacobs, and Fernandez for having the courage to turn your back on Harris Rosen, for the efforts made in overseeing this complicated process, for being the leaders that we elected you to be, for pushing the Magic to step up to the plate, and for voting YES for these venues! THANK YOU Orlando Magic for stepping up when called on by providing gymnasiums for Orange County and pledging to "Go Green" with these venues. It would have been easy to say "Give us what we want or we're leaving", but I think the organization came out looking like they were a team player in this process. THANK YOU Harris Rosen for... well... nothing. Actually, how about a hopeful "Thank you" in advance for allowing the process to move forward now that the vote has passed. Please go back quietly to your hotels and do not become another Doug Guetzloe. THANK YOU to all of the contributors who have raised over $80 million so far for the Performing Arts Center. Your unprecedented generosity will be remembered for generations to come. THANK YOU Orlando Sentinel for providing 50 gazillion reasons why we need these venues. Although I thought that some of the articles were stretching it a bit (I can almost see staffers sitting around the newsroom.... "Hey, can we write an article about how these new venues will end the war in Iraq?"), I appreciate the civic contributions of the newspaper in this process. THANK YOU Scott Maxwell, for being a level-headed voice of reason during this time - for example, asking the Magic to pony up more money, then recognizing their efforts when the gymnasiums were added to the proposal. Your commentary helps to balance this newspaper, and balance is always good (And kudos for the live commission meeting blog). THANK YOU Monsters in the Morning on Real Radio 104.1. This morning they dedicated their entire show to allowing everyone - both proponents and supporters of the venues, to voice their opinions this morning and providing the most open forum I've heard on this process. AND THANK YOU to all the citizens who participated in the process, let their voices be heard, contacted their elected officials, and voiced their support for the construction of these venues. I can't wait to see these get built. Today was a monumental day in the history of this beautiful city. I especially like the thanks for nothing to Harris Rosen and forewarning the birth of a new Doug Guetzloe. Stole my comparison

Did you guys hear, Magic Johnson is ready to invest his $70 million he's been waiving in our face for Parramore now that the vote is yes This is awesome, an outside investor with some celebrity attached This is a great day, it can never be understated Crotty is now THE MAN!!!!!!

Happy Birthday and slam a few down, this is a great day indeed Bring on the lawsuit Rosen, we're ready!!!! This is f**kin awesome!!!! Great job on all the updates throughout the day guys