whitehourseview
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Posts posted by whitehourseview
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I believe linkerj can add more, since his office is in that building, but I know the ARP has been wanting to sell that building for a while.
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Don't have a picture of it, but the old church on Augusts Rd (the one they have been tearing up to redo) has a tower with a bunch of bells on it. I haven't counted them, but it seems to be enough for a carilion. That type of design would be much nicer looking IMO.
Do you mean the tower at Westminster Presbyterian?
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I am quite happy that our attendance consistently beats the Double AA Braves that left. I'm sure they've looked back in hindsight many times.
Maybe, but the Braves organization just has a unique minor league business model. I think they are the only MLB club that owns all its minor league clubs.
They have a nice set up outside Jackson, MS. It's a similar ballpark to Fluor Field, just in the suburbs. I have no idea what their cost structures are, but they seem to be doing well. I do miss the Braves though, and AA ball.
Attendance for last year, the pre number is the rank among all minor league baseball:
51. Greenville Drive (SAL) 339,356
80. Mississippi Braves (SL) 246,674
The highest attendance of any Single A team is the 28. Lakewood BlueClaws (SAL) 442,256. Interesting thing is that there are three other SAL team that had higher attendance than Greenville last year, Lakewood, Lexington, and Greensboro. The highest attendance of any AA Southern League team is: 56. Montgomery Biscuits (SL) 311,872 (who have one of the best names in all of MiLB, IMO). I believe
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IMO attendance will continue to grow too. The Drive and Fluor Field are waaaayyyyy more that just a ballgame. It is defintely a social scene. Fluor Field has sort of become our public gathering spot.....Greenville's living room.
I took a few work associates who were in town, to a game some weeks back. They immediately picked up on the social aspect and commented positively on it.
The ballgame part is the only thing I would change about the Drive experience. Low single A baseball is hit and miss sometimes.
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Did anyone attend the opening of the 'Shoeless" Joe Jackson museum yesterday? How was the ceremony? How is the museum?
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So RT, is that your last post in the Greenville forum? Have you moved?
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It would be nice if the Woolworth's lunch counter could be saved. As I understand it, it played an important part in Greenville's civil rights movement. Perhaps the counter could be placed along a wall in the lobby, along with period photographs and newspaper articles, etc.
I believe the building is empty inside. I remember the last time I was in there, for a sporting goods sale, about eight years ago, the structure was empty except for supporting columns and light fixtures.
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So the Drive will be on TV a few times this year:
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs....ONTPAGECAROUSEL
I'll admit, I'm surprised at this. I guess the Drive found some good sponsors, and for a non major channel like My40, it's neat to see WYFF broadcast a game as well. And it makes sense to broadcast an away game from Asheville, since that is in the TV viewing area as well. I imagine you could broadcast several games v Asheville every year and get two cities interested in the game.
I guess it makes for good summer time filler TV entertainment.
Drive TV schedule:
MY40
June 21 Hickory
July 1 Asheville
June 7 and 28 at Asheville
August 2 - maybe on WYFF v Charleston
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So is a Kalahari Resort like a water version of "Frankie's Fun Park"?
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Does anyone know of a building in Greenville that has pink mortar? If im not mistaken its supposed to be off Haywood somewhere. Was talking to someone and they mentioned it. I would like to see the buiding if it exists.
I believe there has been a Mexican restaurant off of Orchard Park Road that had some faux pink adobe exterior walls? Is that it?
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Charlies is one of those "in town" secrets. The dated decor is part of it's charm. It's like a secret place that everyone knows about! It's amazing how the place has stayed open over the years with very minimal advertising. Trendy and "hip to the scene" places have come and gone. A similiar spot but more upscale is the Open Hearth on Wade Hampton Blvd.
Can anyone name any more Greenville places that have been here practically forever and bucked the trends and conventional wisdom. The 8 o'clock while it doesn't have sit down eating is a popular spot for getting a good meat and three to go.
For about 20 years, from 85 to 05, you could have probably have run the state government based on on 8 o'clock client
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The last time I went to Charlie's I wasn't impressed. Maybe it was a one time experience. I don't know, I haven't been back. Once the older generation that more or less grew up with Charlie's is gone, I wonder if Charlie's will stay in business? They could really use to update their building, both on the exterior and interior. Without changing somewhat, both physically and offering wise, with downtown's changes, I can't imagine too many places would manage to stay competitive.
It's always been busy when I have been there. And most of the folks there Saturday night were under 40, is my guess. Hard to argue with a locally owned establishment that has been around for 87 years. Good steaks, good prices, friendly staff too...
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When they bought that building, there had been talk of a renovation. Someone also posted a that a small parcel next to the tracks and the Shoeless Joe Musuem would have condos, similiar to Brick Street, I think.
That building has served a variety of functions over the years, including medical offices. I can see C. Dan redeveloping it to catch the rising market near the ball park.
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I had the opportunity this past weekend to enjoy, again, Greenville's oldest restaurant, Charlie's Steakhouse on Coffee Street.
The menu is limited, which is good. What they do, they do well, just steaks and seafood. Probably my favorite restaurant steaks in Greenville have come from Charlie's, opened in 1921 I believe.
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Is this the piece of land with that hideous 4 or so story office building? I hope so!
If this is indeed in the works and happens, not only will it be huge addition to Augusta Street, but it will compliment the Brick Street Lofts across the street quite nicely.
That would be the C. Dan Joyner offices. Is C. Dan Joyner moving? Is that the building being referred to?
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It's taken a couple of years, but we're finally going to see this rivalry played up here in Greenville, too (Tuesday and Wednesday). It'd be kinda neat to see something similar when the Asheville Tourists (Colorado Rockies) are in town.
Why the Rockies? Because of the 4 - 0 Red Sox win last October?
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I totally disagree. Why on earth would we want a downtown filled with quaint local retailers that offer products that only serve a very narrow niche of consumers?!? We need national retailers. Nothing is wrong with having stores downtown like Gap, Victoria's Secret, J. Crew, etc. Plenty of people would absolutely love to go to these stores. They represent the next step in the evolution of our downtown. Plus, they would bring more young people and young talent to our downtown. Companies would find it easier to recruit employees, and there would be an even higher demand for downtown living.
Personally, I don't think local retailers play a very big role in the "uniqueness" or "charm" of a downtown. They are an important element of a successful downtown, but I don't think they need to be a prominent element. I realize that we're all different.
I think you totally misread what I was trying to say. I believe I've indicated a mix of national, regional and local retailers, not out of a necessary desire for the strength and financial flexibility of larger businesses, but because of the varied types of services that different types of businesses can provide. I listed several regional towns that all have varied types of businesses in their center. I'm really looking more for diversity of retail services than I'm looking local, regional or national retailers. I don't want a downtown filled with just quaint little shops that serve odds and ends. But those are important. Downtowns that have a diversity of services would be similar to a financial portfolio filled with a diversity of vehicles. And it really represents a healthier approach to things.
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You had me up to point 3. Sometimes what is best for the Market, or for the property owners that lease space downtown, is not what is best for the City or the population as a whole. There currently is an excellent analogy, that of Oil companies' huge profits (the Oil Market and shareholders doing great) at the expense of the general population (our economy is tanking, the cost of any good sold that must be transported is skyrocketing). Eventually, alternative fuels may come into play or people will move closer to work, buy hybrids, etc but there will be a lot of pain that could be avoided while we wait for that long term swing. If we see it coming, recognize symptoms, we should then plan, and react to prevent that pain.
Nature has checks and balances, so should the city put into place something that "checks" a solely market driven phenomenon. I am not for banning national retailers, but for ensuring that both they and local merchants have a place downtown. That same strategy to ensure that both thrive when both exist, should provide , while we wait for the national retailers to arrive, a means to ensure local merchants can succeed and stop closing their doors along Main. We should have the intelligence and foresight to plan, and the wisdom to learn from past or others mistakes.
You know, downtown's greatest retail hey day was when national and regional retailers drove the shopping experience. It hasn't been that way since the larger chains moved out, and the biggest retail store today, Mast, is also a small, yet regional presence, that drives a lot of shopping downtown. Anyhow, the oil industry average profit margin is about 8.2% - about typical for the historic average; for all US industry, the average is about 6.8%. I'd guess companies like Nuvox downtown are pulling down bigger profit margins - because the telecommunications sector usually has larger profit margins than energy companies.
A good mix of national, regional and local retailers downtown is probably what should be aimed for, but a lot of that is driven by access to consumers, rents, security, things like that. It's probably not realistic for retailers downtown to keep the same hours as stores at a shopping mall.
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Just to clarify, our downtown is still very much alive everyday and into the night, but I was referring to the "wild college kids drinking party" atmosphere found in most college towns. This place seems more "sophisticated" and somewhat more "mature" to me, yet very family friendly, which is likely a result of there not being a major university in downtown. I for one enjoy that.
The main point is that with a student population of 5,000 added to the heart of downtown, retail diversity becomes a non-issue (as does the difficult economics of mass transit and white-collar recruitment.) In the absence of that, we need some other way to get people downtown. Workforce housing is one way to accomplish that.
Regarding the college town concern. I don't think university presence immediately results in "wild college town" atmosphere. How does USC in Columbia compare? That might be a good example.
Downtown Greenville has, of course, previously been a college town. Furman, the Baptist Women's College, Chicora, and the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary have all had their main campuses in Greenville's downtown, with Furman and the Women's college merging and moving northward nearly 50 years ago.
Columbia's Five Points is a bit infamous for the rowdiness of the college crowd, not really a place for anyone older than 25. The Vista has been developed, in many ways, for people to move on to after they graduate.
It's probably unrealistic for any main campus of any present or future school to be added to Greenville's downtown, due to space and infrastructure needs on a campus. Furman moved out of a thriving downtown at the time (though the decline was on the horizon as the mill system broke down and suburb began to rise), because they simply needed the space. Hard to argue that was a bad move for them. And when Bob Jones U. moved to Greenville, their present campus on Wade Hampton was farm land, a bit out from downtown.
If the city can have a role, or even better the Chamber of Commerce, looking at cities and towns like Asheville, Hendersonville, Black Mountain, etc in the region that have a lot of local businesses in their downtown's would be worth investigating. Seeing how those businesses have thrived in many cases, and in Asheville's case especially, had a nice balance of services and retailers that the local population needs is important in seeing where the city should go from here.
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It's been on my Amazon.com wish list since I heard about it. Look forward to ordering a copy.
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However, the city must try to subsidize or support local business to keep Greenville's local flavor. I doubt that any of the artists on artist's row in the west end have solid business plans, nor could they afford the rents that shopkeepers on Main St must have to pay. They city has realized how important they are to the city's future and have responded accordingly to support them. I do my best to spend some of my money on local shops as much as possible, even if its something small. I have no doubt that most fellow UPers here do likewise. I hope the City understands the Value of our Edens, Venti's, Uptown Downtown, etc. Has anyone SEEN how many empty store fronts and "for lease" signs that pepper downtown main street today? It is a symptom that must not be ignored.
How do you propose the city subsidize local businesses? What criteria do you recommend? That's a fairly radical step.
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I'd rather run over asphalt than concrete any day, so I'm glad it's asphalt, too.
Yep, asphalt is softer than concrete and a lot better on the knees and ankles.
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I think like I have said before here, minor league hockey can be successful in this area, but it has to be looked at separately from the arena. The Bi-Lo Center is fine for what it is, and after a 35 year fight to get one built, another one won't be built for a long time. And considering that other sites for the Bi-Lo Center included Berea and Simpsonville, being off East North Street isn't such a bad thing.
Minor league hockey is thriving two hours south on I 85, in Gwinnet, GA. It is also doing well two hours the other direction in Charlotte.
Burger underplayed why hockey is not active in the Pee Dee and in Columbia now. The owners of the Columbia team are building a new facility in the Irmo area, about 7,000 seats, and like lots of construction in the Greenville area, they are having some difficulty getting it off the ground. They were supposed' to be able to use the Colonial Center, a facility designed for hockey, but USC wouldn't let them, just as USC wouldn't let the Bombers use a new ballpark. So the Inferno had to use a sub standard rink for years in the old Carolina Coliseum, and now a new arena is being built. Same with the team that will begin playing again in Conway, SC, when their new arena, in conjunction with Coastal Carolina is built.
Marketing and price points and arena improvements are important, but really a new hockey team in Greenville has to have outside sources of revenue. I have mentioned before the Charlotte Checkers having their own ice facility that also serves as a fitness center and conference center. That would be needed and welcome in Greenville, and would provide a consistent source of revenue for a hockey team.
Minor league baseball has been in Greenville 70 out of the last 80 years. Folks are used to it and no one goes to the park because of the quality of the team. They go for the entertainment value, which is rarely consistent with the quality of the team. One of the worst G Braves teams had one of the teams highest levels of attendance. The Drive team, in both years of West End Field, was just awful at times, especially for a Low A team, but they still set attendance records - yes, partly for the newness of the facility, but also because the entertainment value, especially considering the price, was high.
Minor league hockey, with a NHL team in Atlanta and another one in Raleigh, with two successful minor league franchises in Gwinnett and Charlotte, can work in Greenville. But to make it work, consistent streams of revenue, and admittedly well funded ownership, have to be available. If a new owner comes in and only expects to make money off sales at the Bi-Lo Center, it just won't work. I don't care how good the marketing is. If a new owner comes in and has other team sources of revenue, I'd say that there is a good chance the team can work out in the long term.
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While it would be great to have the Drive on television, it'd also be great to have some of the college games (probably more realistic, too) broadcast by a major station. It'd be a great showcase for the area and the ballpark, because you know they'd have to explain why it's at a 'neutral' site and why Fluor Field of all locations... The ballpark seems to really be embracing the college games, so I think as the caliber of the teams improve, it's possible.
You'll probably see Fox Sports South broadcast the Southern Conference championship game next year from the park, at the end of their tournament. And if the SAL All Star game comes to town, it might get an appearance on CSS. I'm not holding my breath on the park ever hosting an ACC tournament, mostly due to its size, and partly due to FSU's objections, but if it did, several tournament games would be televised by Fox Sports South as well.
But it's probably not realistic for Clemson v Presbyterian, or USC v. Furman to get any TV coverage, regardless of the location. Clemson and USC will occasionally appear on Fox Sports on the weekend, but that would be for a significant series, and neither team will give up that kind of home appearance to play in Greenville.
For college teams, weekend games are usually reserved for conference matchups, and I can't imagine a situation where they would not be played at home sites. Week night games tend to be filler games, often against local opposition, so the matchup is less appealing.
Carroll A. Campbell Jr. U.S. Courthouse
in Greenville
Posted
Since the Oklahoma City terrorist attack on the Murrah Federal Building, new Federal buildings, especially courthouses, have had a lot more restrictions on how they are built, especially regarding built in safety measures. Since 9/11, the impetus to enforce those regulations for newer Federal buildings has really stepped up too.
I think you could find online sources about those kind of regulations - set back from roads, the amount of glass used, the type of construction materials, access to underground parking garages, etc.
The General Service Administration, the Federal agency that would be responsible for building a new court house has labyrinthine regulations for these type of things anyhow.